Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[tomservo]

Totally just ordered one of those for myself.

 

[gtfcniles]

FYI guys if you want to buy one of these chips you can, but the deadline is 3rd sept 09:00 hong kong time, ronreef is the contact.

 

[BeanAnimal]

If you continue to mention the "buy" this thread is going to get locked. There really is no wiggle room and it would be a shame.

 

[007Bond]

If you continue to mention the "buy" this thread is going to get locked. There really is no wiggle room and it would be a shame.

++1 Would Be A Shame!

 

[gtfcniles]

Thought I would mention it due to people asking...

 

[Sonny n Colleen]

Lasse,

What are your plans with the 5 channel chip? Are you planning to run all 5 channels seperately for each chip? I was thinking of using a ELN-60-48 to drive each channel. I like the Freezer I30 (320W) for cooling the chip. From the dimensions shown in the drawings the chip should be similar in size to a i7 cpu.

Sonny

 

[Lassef]

@ BeanAnimal

This thread starts 02/06/2012. Up to today it has had 2,267 replies and 158,727 Views. It has been an international thread. It seems to me that many people are interested in what is written here and that it is a constructive (well almost always, anyway ) discussion taking place in this thread.

Do you really think the wise guys who are admins here will stop this thread just because someone mentions "b * y"?

I personally do not believe this but on the other hand, I've been wrong before.

The statement from you, however, leads to the question if I, as an example, can answer Sonny n Coollen's question without breaking any rules here at RC? Because I belive in this construction - everything I write can be interpreted as promotion of this construction.

Anyone who read the thread knows what Sonny n Coollen ask me about and most people know that discussions about this chip has moved to another forum. Its a fact that this chip is a reality just now and that it has been published photos of it.

But may I write about it here at RC without breaking the rules? I do not know - I'm not used to a moderation of the type which seems to be here at RC. This is not a criticism - I just do not know

As another eaxample - If everything works out well and the chip is very good - can I write about it then? - it will naturally serve as promotion of the chip.

That I can write about it if it's a flop, I understand because it can never be understood as promotional.


Sincerely Lasse

 

[BeanAnimal]

Lassef,

You questions are best asked to a moderator, not me. All I can tell you is that dozens of threads have been locked and members banned for similar commercial interests underpinning a thread, regardless of the interest or number of views.

 

[mr.wilson]

If that is the case that you NEED to run a chiller then I agree. However not everyone needs to run a chiller with halides. Unless the tank is kept in an area where the ambient temperature exceeds 70°F, if you overheat your tank with halides you're probably running too many halides You don't absolutely need to keep the temperature of a tank rock solid 24hours a day.

I've set up hundreds of reef tanks in all shapes and sizes, and have never had need for a chiller. Ambient room temperature would have to be closer to 80˚F to need one in my opinion. It's cheaper to cool the room with an air conditioner than use a chiller that needs to be vented outside.

The irony hits when you notice that your aquarium heater is working a lot harder once you switch to LED With MH the heater only comes on at night to make up for the cooler ambient room temp and lack of heat from the MHs.

 

[mr.wilson]

Mr Wilson,
Would you expand on your statement "there is a Limit" I follow the rest of your post, but when are you over your limit?---Rick

Sorry for the late response, I don't know how you guys keep up with the fast pace of the thread

It's hard to quantify how far away the heat can be exported when using an aluminum panel with a CPU cooler. CPU coolers are rated for a particular wattage, but these numbers are not always published or even known in some cases. The danger in this thread is that DIY shortcuts can be accumulative.

It's cheaper to over-build the cooler/heat sink and not have to worry about burning out chips. I've seen multichips fail with passively cooled industrial fixtures that are quite bulky. Some of the heat sinks in this thread are better suited for 3w arrays.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a compact fanless heat sink, but it's going to take some exotic materials and creative engineering.

 

[mr.wilson]

Hi mr. wilson ,

-If MH radiate over a bigger distance does it not means that there is more energy converted into heat (IR) than with leds ?
Also the mass / heat of the MH bulb is higher than a led , leaving me to think again that the led is more efficient than MH in converting energy into light?

-I know for sure that you guys know more about lighting then i do , but it still it leaves me thinking ....


greetingzz tntneon

Apart from the apples to apples efficiency comparison, there is also the efficiency of LED spectrum. Metal halide generates useless light below 400nm and above 700nm. As Lassef has stated, the light frequency above 700nm is IR (heat radiation). There are IR LEDs but we don't use them for reef lighting and subsequently run cooler.

Again, the irony is that our "cooler running" LEDs are very difficult to keep cool.

 

[mr.wilson]

Not sure why the 420 would have made people see a pink tint.. I currently have 18w of 420nm over my 12g, and I expect about 18w of 445 and 10-15w of 4100k white. Definitely not a pink tint. The 420 by itself is a very dim illumination, but the corals just glow like crazy.

420nm is violet which is similar/sympathetic to pink. 420nm combined with 660nm red, REALLY looks pink.

 

[mr.wilson]

My thoughts on the pink effect is that since 420 nm is on the edge of the visual spectrum what is actualy happening is that violet pigments that give us the night vision are being activated by these led's. IT is also being slightly activated by the Royal Blues as opposed to the Blues which is why the Royal Blues look more purple to some of us than the True Blues. Keep in mind that this is my personal theory only and could be completly wrong or right on?

I agree. 480-485nm blue chips are closer to red than 450-465nm royal blue chips, yet the royal blues look more purple (red). As you have stated, it's the violet that tricks our limited human eyes.

 

[mr.wilson]

I don't want to stir the pot, but why would you buy so many chips without testing samples first. 60 chips + at $128ea is a lot of money for a completely untested spectrum and construction method. Why not at least test some single channel chips with the same spectrum?

 

[ReefUrchin]

Im on post 49 and have a ways to go, but, what is, if any, conclusions on a heatsink can be used with a 100w single chip LED running 100w max and use NO fans? 72"L x 24"deep tank (22" with sand) 125g divided by 3 at the top, 22"wide each x 16"

Not 120w/140/160w but 100w LED.....



Okay, for the second question... since I have a 125 divided by 3 at the top, 22"wide each x 16" deep I was thinking of two ways to do my lights. This would be on a panel about the size of a keyboard. I am not sure of exact size as I have not heard back from the guy yet. Now, of course I would space the leds out a bit compared to what is showing, but, thats the general layout. I plan to blast the blues only for the coral when I am at work and have the white on for me from 5pm to 11pm? I may mix it up too for my liking, depending. Just a FYI, for aesthetics, I like the natural sunlight look with maybe a little, just a little blue.

1) Each Panel

9 - 10w 445nm
4 - 30w 20k

RB-RB-RB
--W--W--
RB-RB-RB
--W--W--
RB-RB-RB


2) Each panel

5 - 20w 445nm RB
1 - 100w 20k


RB------RB
---W/RB---
RB------RB



Key Notes:

Is this a good placement or should I come up with a differant pattern?

Since I want to use blue for growing when not at home, i can blast them with blue so need lots of blue power. Do I need more blue if only using/depending on blue to grow? How much white do I need just for viewing? I think 80w should give me enough to view, and, if I want to mix in the future, that flexibility.
I would rather have more power and dim than not have enough, if dimming will not cause problems.

Whats the best blues to go with for coral growth out of all the colors from 420 to 460 if I had to pick just one?

I also need to figure what drivers will allow me one of the scenarios if not both.

 

[ReefUrchin]

Few corrections now it has been past 60 minutes.

1) I have a 22" tank

2) Not sure which RBs are best. My examples are just that, examples with the RB's, lol.

 

[TropTrea]

I don't want to stir the pot, but why would you buy so many chips without testing samples first. 60 chips + at $128ea is a lot of money for a completely untested spectrum and construction method. Why not at least test some single channel chips with the same spectrum?

Single emitter chips even if they claim to be simular wave lenghts and intensities do not always maintain there wave lenghts and intensity when put into a mult chip array. Sure the frequency shift may not be drastic like probably only 5 nm in either direction. However the intensity is genneral lower per watt.

However I will agree about taking a much smaller sample than 60 chips on an initial order. I know even when I worked Research and New PRoduct developments we ran an initial test run of only 3 to 5, then after it had the bugs worked out we ran the next run of about 10 looking for any variations in the process that clould effect preformans. IOf we made it that far then we went to pre-production runs which were still small usualy around 20 to 30.

 

[TropTrea]

Since I want to use blue for growing when not at home, i can blast them with blue so need lots of blue power. Do I need more blue if only using/depending on blue to grow? How much white do I need just for viewing? I think 80w should give me enough to view, and, if I want to mix in the future, that flexibility.
I would rather have more power and dim than not have enough, if dimming will not cause problems.

Whats the best blues to go with for coral growth out of all the colors from 420 to 460 if I had to pick just one?

I also need to figure what drivers will allow me one of the scenarios if not both.

It looks from your description that your looking at roughly 600 watts total on your tank. For a 125 gallon tank that is a lot of lighting as far as LED's are considered.

Now if you truely wnat that much wattage then I woud start with about 400 Watts of Blue LED's. This should be more than enough to meet the needs of amy coral. Now for the white this is where personal taste comes in. For the corals themselves a good full spectrum neutral white of about 20 Watts would give you a good balance for the coral needs. However it would be fantastic for yiewing. Depending on personal tast with 400 Watts of Blues different people would balance with whites between 100 watts and 400 watts. It is all a matter of personal color taste.

 

[mr.wilson]

Single emitter chips even if they claim to be simular wave lenghts and intensities do not always maintain there wave lenghts and intensity when put into a mult chip array. Sure the frequency shift may not be drastic like probably only 5 nm in either direction. However the intensity is genneral lower per watt.

However I will agree about taking a much smaller sample than 60 chips on an initial order. I know even when I worked Research and New PRoduct developments we ran an initial test run of only 3 to 5, then after it had the bugs worked out we ran the next run of about 10 looking for any variations in the process that clould effect preformans. IOf we made it that far then we went to pre-production runs which were still small usualy around 20 to 30.

What I meant was, why not buy one sample multichip with the chip mix proposed and see if the colour mix is suitable. It would be a $50 investment instead of a $13,000.00 investment.

Three channel multichips are readily available, reliable, require fewer drivers, and are a lot easier to wire. If you use the proper chip mix there is no need for fine tuning to such a fine degree as 5 colour channels. You need white, blue(s), and red. Why complicate things any more.

 

[TropTrea]

I agree. 480-485nm blue chips are closer to red than 450-465nm royal blue chips, yet the royal blues look more purple (red). As you have stated, it's the violet that tricks our limited human eyes.

Actualy there are 4 sensors in the eye which see light. In the normal person they are:

Blue Cone with a peak sensitivity at 437 nm
Rods with a peak senitivity at 489 nm
Green Cones with a peak sensitivity at 533 nm
Red Cones with a peak sensativity at 584 nm

Now these to not correspond with what we actualy believe these colors are. as an example red is seen at anything above 600 nm because at wavelenghts over 600 nm the other sensors can barely detect this light. Simularly Green is usualy visualized as purist aroung 550 nm where actualy the sensativity curves of both green and red cone cross in the level of sensitivity. What we see or thing we see as the purest blue is actualy in the 465 to 475 nm range which is where both the green and blue cones cross in there sensativity. Now the real trick the eye plays on us is in wavelenght below 550 nm where the blue cones are more sensative than the rods. While we are actualy seeing blue light the brain is saying we should not be much here because it is outside the normal range of the rods so it tricks the brain into thinking it is missing a signal from the red cones and therefore tells us we atre looking at violet. For this reason any light below 437 nm is considered near ultra violet, and below 400 nm is considered Ultra Violet. For most humans light below 400nm is invisable to us and anything slightly over 400 looks violet.

Now you also have difference in the individuals human eye between individuals. As an example an individual who has less sensative rods and usualy limited night vision will see violets at much longer wavelenghts. Or an individual with damaged or weak Blue cones will see what most of us consider as blue being more cyan colored. This is where color blindness varies in indiviiduals.