Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[themaddhatter]

It was really strange. Took everything out one my one, including the pH probe and temp probe and voltage didn't go away. I had the skimmer pump out the whole time because I was cleaning it. On the end I had everything plugged in again and I remembered the skimmer pump. I plugged it in and boom... Voltage dissapeared instantly. Also, bear in mind this all happened within minutes of the reef angel being incorporated. I had everything on regular power bars before.

 

[tangstank]

I was checking out some multi chip LED's & came across this 30 Watt

Is this 30 X 1 Watt LED or can this 30 Watt LED replace 10 X 3 Watt LED's? How does this work in a SPS tank?

 

[theatrus]

Looks like a random Chinese module - no idea without a decent data sheet.

 

[R_Mc]

Looks like 30x1. There are plenty of better options out there now. Look into some of the modern cob or better yet the multi xt-e boards.

 

[AZRippster]

I was hoping someone on this thread could give me a sanity check. I'm looking at building 2 supplemental fixtures to add more Royal Blue to my current LED lighting setup. The chips I'm looking to purchase are 2 - 100W XLamp XT-E multichip LEDs off of ebay. Here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370877741351?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Although not within the posting, to get the DC30-33V 3A specification they are advertising, I'm assuming the chip is wired in 2 parallel strings of 10 LEDs each.

That being said, I want to run two supplemental fixtures, each with 1 of these chips, using a single PWM controllable power supply. The power supply I'm looking at is the Meanwell HLG-185H series.

Running 2 of these chips in parallel would be essentially running 4 strings of 10 XT-E LEDs in parallel.

My math is based on:

4 Strings at 1500mA = 6A
10 LEDs (each) at 3.3V = 33V

My conundrum is, should I go with the HLG-185H-30B or HLG-185H-36B?

Both have an adjustable voltage range in which I can hit the 33V, it's the amperage I'm mostly concerned with. He HLG-185H-30B outputs 6.2A, slightly hotter than I need, whereas the HLG-185H-36B is only 5.2A, much cooler than I need.

I've included the HLG-185H spec sheet from Meanwell. If anyone would like to provide me their thoughts on this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

RB

 

[Krazie4Acans]

Never plan to run power supplies at, or near, 100%. They won't last long. I would recommend running a separate power supply for each fixture. You can still control them off of the same PWM signal so that they respond the same way.

Also I wouldn't try doing the math for individual LED's when you are trying to design with high wattage chips. The manufacturer will state what the forward voltage and current are for the LED you are using. It's best to stick with those numbers and not a per LED number.

If it were me I would run each fixture with a single chip and a Meanwell HLG-185H-36A (Last I checked the 36B was not adjustable) supply. Make sure to turn the voltage and current down to match what the LED chip needs. Then connect the PWM control signal to both HLG's to allow for dimming. Krazie :jester:

 

[saf1]

Never plan to run power supplies at, or near, 100%. They won't last long.

How do you control the power out of curiosity? I have a couple Borealis chips over a 40 breeder using LDD 1000 HW and 700 HW supplied by a Mean Well SE 350/48. Right now the chips are at 100% since my dimming expansion hasn't arrived yet (controller only has 2 ports and I need 4).

I don't recall the Mean Well having a power adjuster and I didn't think the chips like it. The power would be adjusted by the PWM or am I misunderstanding (which is probably the case anyway).

 

[AZRippster]

Krazie,

Upon further research today, I realized how closely the wattage was to my requirement. I'm now looking at the HLG-240H series power supplies. I was originally going to run each of the multi-chip LEDs off of their own power supply, but then I started doing the math and realized they had to be running dual serial lines of 10 LEDs each in order to get the 30-33V and 3000mA. If they were running the multi-chip as a single serial LED, they would be looking at having to run the chips with a power supply pushing 66V, which you don't commonly see. If the multi-chip LED I'm considering was entirely serial, it should be advertised as 66V, 1500mA, to meet Cree XT-E specifications. By splitting it into 2, 10 LED serial lines, running in parallel, it gives us the 33V @ 3000mA.

Running both 100W multi-chip LEDs off of a single power supply cuts the cost almost in half.

As far as the HLG series, any with the "œB" annotation after the voltage indicator specifies they can be dynamically adjusted via variable resistor (potententiometer), 0-10V (I.e. Apex), or 10V PWM. That's where my next challenge is. My main fixture is controlled by a Coralux Storm X based off of an Arduino UNO board. The PWM signals from Arduino are 0-5V PWM. The HLG require 10V PWM. I now need to either find a different power supply that is controllable in the 0-5V PWM range, or source a converter that performs 5V to 10V PWM.

saf1,

Depending upon the features of the power supply or driver being used dictates how the power Is controlled. My main fixture is similar to yours. I'm using 4, dual-puck Auroras from Rapid LED. Each dual-puck is driven by a 4-up Meanwell loaded LDD board (1000mA, 700mA, 1000mA, 700mA) that provides the necessary current from a Meanwell SE-350-48 Power Supply. The LDD's are PWM controllable from 0-5V. The Coralux Storm X sends PWM signals to the LDD drivers telling them what level to allow in output thus creating control on each channel. Here is a link to my actual DIY build I'm trying to supplement with this current challenge.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2451379&highlight=rapidled+aurora

Sounds like you really need a controller of sorts. The Coralux Storm has 6 PWM channels whereas the Storm X has 16 and more granular control for smoother dimming. If you want to check out Coralux, they can be found at:

Www.coralux.net

There are several others though, I just chose Coralux.

So now the quest is a converter that will support 5V PWM to 10V PWM or a power supply that uses 5V PWM. I would use a PWM to 0-10V converter (Steve's LED's, Coralux, etc.) but then you lose lighting effects. PWM provides many features, to include very smooth ramping, not available in voltage controlled ramping.

Any further suggestions or help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

RB

 

[perkint]

Personally I'd buy twice as many LED chips and run them on a (much cheaper) 36V PSU and LDD1500s - more light, less heat, dimming with 0-5V PWM and no extra bits. Probably cheaper overall as well

Tim

 

[AZRippster]

Tim et al.

Your suggestion got me thinking so I started running some numbers. This is what I came up with. Prices were pulled from Rapid LED, the web, and ebay.

The single starboard LED cost itself is about twice as much. The typical cost for a Cree XT-E Royal Blue is $3. The multichip holds 20 of these at $29.99. If I go singles, the cost would be $3 x 20 = $60.

Two Fixtures: $120

A non-dimmable power supply is $43 plus a 2-Up board (don't care for the wired versions) for the LDD $10, and two LDD-1500 at $7 each, total $67.

Power for 2 Fixtures: $134

40 Lenses: $50

Total before heat sinks, fans: $304

For the single Multi-chip, the numbers came out to:

100W Cree XT-E Multi-Chip 20 LED: $29.99

2 Fixtures: $60

Meanwell HLG-240H-36B Power Supply

Powers 2 fixtures easily: $79.95

Two 90-120 degree 100W Lenses: $5.11 x 2 = $10.22

Total before heat sinks, fans: $150.17

Savings going with single Multi-Chip LED: $153.83

For my purposes only needing to supplement some blue into my fixture, and only in the void between two of my LED fixtures, the single multi-chip is a banging deal. I don't know what I'll run into as far as cost for a 5V PWM to 10V PWM converter, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near $153. I have seriously considered going with individual LED star boards (which was my original build), but the footprint would be considerably larger. This would also place quite a bit more weight on my fixture's wall supports. I've actually considered just adding two more of the Rapid LED Dual Puck Aurora kits, but that would be $720 versus $150ish. In addition, and although I really like the Aurora's, the longer I own them the less I'm pleased with their Blue LED output. I have PAR, LUX, and Kelvin readings at 16" off the water's surface to include middle and bottom of a 36" deep tank if anyone is interested.

Thanks to all for your input, it will definitely help in whatever solution I eventually go with.

RB

 

[perkint]

I wasn't suggesting individual stars (which you can get XTE RB for nearer $1.50 on 20mm stars, but anyway...) but just buying more of the multi chip. Get a PSU like this which will easily run 4 of your multi chips at 1.5A:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-M...201?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item339c3628e1

And then 4 LDD 1500L. That works out at about $200 so still a little more, but as i said - more light, less heat and runs from your existing controller

Tim

 

[AZRippster]

Ah yes, that's the road I'm looking at going down with the exact MW power supply I was considering. I also learned that the LDD-1500L are very sensitive to any voltage over 36V, so this would be a good solution.

Ben at Coralux has a 5V PWM to 10V PWM solution, but it takes a little mod on his end to make it compatible with the Storm X versus the Storm. I'm considering that too. My big concern there is I want it to be fully compatible with the performance, i.e. weather, dim to zero, etc., that I currently have.

Thank you very much for your input. The more the better!

 

[sfsuphysics]

Never plan to run power supplies at, or near, 100%.

I don't have a ton of experience, but what I do have shows this statement sounds pretty darn correct. I went with the meanwell SP-320 for my build, because PFC is good!, ran two LED fixtures off it, 48 LEDs each, some ran at 1amp some at .7amps, needless to say the total was under 320 watts, however it was fairly close... first one crapped out after a few months, sent it back to Jameco, they couldn't figure out what was wrong, so sent it to Meanwell techs... there was a corrosion spot... so they claimed that was the issue. Fine got another, put the PSU in another damn room so there was no humidity issues... same thing occurred.. checked the board and absolutely no corrosion spots anywhere, I finally got so frustrated with the PSU that I bought local one of the SE-350 models, no PFC but they have been going like champs. And I'm fairly sure that extra headroom is the reason.

 

[saf1]

saf1,

Depending upon the features of the power supply or driver being used dictates how the power Is controlled. My main fixture is similar to yours. I'm using 4, dual-puck Auroras from Rapid LED. Each dual-puck is driven by a 4-up Meanwell loaded LDD board (1000mA, 700mA, 1000mA, 700mA) that provides the necessary current from a Meanwell SE-350-48 Power Supply. The LDD's are PWM controllable from 0-5V. The Coralux Storm X sends PWM signals to the LDD drivers telling them what level to allow in output thus creating control on each channel. Here is a link to my actual DIY build I'm trying to supplement with this current challenge.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2451379&highlight=rapidled+aurora

Sounds like you really need a controller of sorts. The Coralux Storm has 6 PWM channels whereas the Storm X has 16 and more granular control for smoother dimming. If you want to check out Coralux, they can be found at:

Www.coralux.net

There are several others though, I just chose Coralux.

So now the quest is a converter that will support 5V PWM to 10V PWM or a power supply that uses 5V PWM. I would use a PWM to 0-10V converter (Steve's LED's, Coralux, etc.) but then you lose lighting effects. PWM provides many features, to include very smooth ramping, not available in voltage controlled ramping.

Any further suggestions or help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

RB

Thanks RB. Makes a lot of sense. I actually have a controller, Reefangel, but it defaults with 2 dimming ports. I'd need 4 if I want to dim in pairs or 8 if I want to be a bit more creative. I ordered an expansion but it hasn't arrived yet.

I was hoping they would arrive before we moved but it didn't pan out. I have 2 29 gallon bio-cubes that I am merging into a 40 breeder. Did that last night. Until the expansion module gets her I just mounted the lights higher actually and everything seems to be fine. Only issue is the stress from the move but hey, in real life they have storms and get knocked around. The 30 mile road trip last night should be about the same

Side note regarding the LDD's (I really like them btw, they are nice). They seem a bit warm to the touch. Do people typically mount them on head sinks or just put them in a box and be done with it. I need to do some wire management and was thinking where I should stash those.

Thanks again for the info. I'm also looking at the storm controller out of curiosity.

-scottf

 

[Fredfish]

I don't have a ton of experience, but what I do have shows this statement sounds pretty darn correct. I went with the meanwell SP-320 for my build, because PFC is good!, ran two LED fixtures off it, 48 LEDs each, some ran at 1amp some at .7amps, needless to say the total was under 320 watts, however it was fairly close... first one crapped out after a few months, sent it back to Jameco, they couldn't figure out what was wrong, so sent it to Meanwell techs... there was a corrosion spot... so they claimed that was the issue. Fine got another, put the PSU in another damn room so there was no humidity issues... same thing occurred.. checked the board and absolutely no corrosion spots anywhere, I finally got so frustrated with the PSU that I bought local one of the SE-350 models, no PFC but they have been going like champs. And I'm fairly sure that extra headroom is the reason.

How close was fairly close? I seem to recall the recommendation is that you not exceed 80% of the PSUs potential output, so I'm wondering if you pushed past that or if we should be more conservative.

 

[AZRippster]

saf1,

If you need more dimming ports, Reef Angel offers a dimming expansion module. Just be sure you select the correct PWM voltage for the type of driver you are using. LDD drivers use 0-5V. I don't know if the Relay Box's PWM ports are configurable, or if they default to 0-10V. If they are 0-10V, that may be why your LDD drivers may be getting as warm as you describe. None of the X-Up Boards for LDD drivers I'm aware of have heatsinks on them.

RB

 

[perkint]

I don't bother heat sinking LDDs, but also make sure there's some air movement around them - not completely enclosed!

Tim

 

[theatrus]

Side note regarding the LDD's (I really like them btw, they are nice). They seem a bit warm to the touch. Do people typically mount them on head sinks or just put them in a box and be done with it. I need to do some wire management and was thinking where I should stash those.



Thanks again for the info. I'm also looking at the storm controller out of curiosity.



-scottf

Should be fine thermally. I wouldn't worry.

 

[Krazie4Acans]

How do you control the power out of curiosity? I have a couple Borealis chips over a 40 breeder using LDD 1000 HW and 700 HW supplied by a Mean Well SE 350/48. Right now the chips are at 100% since my dimming expansion hasn't arrived yet (controller only has 2 ports and I need 4).

I don't recall the Mean Well having a power adjuster and I didn't think the chips like it. The power would be adjusted by the PWM or am I misunderstanding (which is probably the case anyway).

The LDD's have to be dimmed via PWM. If your controller has two outputs then you can pair up LDD's on the PWM lines to control them until the new controller comes. Keep in mind that his scenario doesn not use LDD's and he is driving the LED's directly from a Meanwell driver supply. Don't get the two setups confused.

Krazie :jester:

 

[Krazie4Acans]

Krazie,

Upon further research today, I realized how closely the wattage was to my requirement. I'm now looking at the HLG-240H series power supplies. I was originally going to run each of the multi-chip LEDs off of their own power supply, but then I started doing the math and realized they had to be running dual serial lines of 10 LEDs each in order to get the 30-33V and 3000mA. If they were running the multi-chip as a single serial LED, they would be looking at having to run the chips with a power supply pushing 66V, which you don't commonly see. If the multi-chip LED I'm considering was entirely serial, it should be advertised as 66V, 1500mA, to meet Cree XT-E specifications. By splitting it into 2, 10 LED serial lines, running in parallel, it gives us the 33V @ 3000mA.

Running both 100W multi-chip LEDs off of a single power supply cuts the cost almost in half.

As far as the HLG series, any with the "œB" annotation after the voltage indicator specifies they can be dynamically adjusted via variable resistor (potententiometer), 0-10V (I.e. Apex), or 10V PWM. That's where my next challenge is. My main fixture is controlled by a Coralux Storm X based off of an Arduino UNO board. The PWM signals from Arduino are 0-5V PWM. The HLG require 10V PWM. I now need to either find a different power supply that is controllable in the 0-5V PWM range, or source a converter that performs 5V to 10V PWM.

saf1,

Depending upon the features of the power supply or driver being used dictates how the power Is controlled. My main fixture is similar to yours. I'm using 4, dual-puck Auroras from Rapid LED. Each dual-puck is driven by a 4-up Meanwell loaded LDD board (1000mA, 700mA, 1000mA, 700mA) that provides the necessary current from a Meanwell SE-350-48 Power Supply. The LDD's are PWM controllable from 0-5V. The Coralux Storm X sends PWM signals to the LDD drivers telling them what level to allow in output thus creating control on each channel. Here is a link to my actual DIY build I'm trying to supplement with this current challenge.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2451379&highlight=rapidled+aurora

Sounds like you really need a controller of sorts. The Coralux Storm has 6 PWM channels whereas the Storm X has 16 and more granular control for smoother dimming. If you want to check out Coralux, they can be found at:

Www.coralux.net

There are several others though, I just chose Coralux.

So now the quest is a converter that will support 5V PWM to 10V PWM or a power supply that uses 5V PWM. I would use a PWM to 0-10V converter (Steve's LED's, Coralux, etc.) but then you lose lighting effects. PWM provides many features, to include very smooth ramping, not available in voltage controlled ramping.

Any further suggestions or help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

RB

Please don't confuse the base voltage and current setting with the dimming control. They are not the same thing. With the HLG's you will need to set the output voltage to a max of ~33 volts and the max current at 3000ma. Once those are set then the dimming is a separate configuration.

In order to control the driver from your storm x you will need PWM capable drivers. The boards to go from PWM to 0-10v analog are either a really bad RC circuit or quite expensive. It will be cheaper to find a driver that is PWM capable instead. Krazie :jester: