miracle mud??

[theantman]

hi all,

i'm still kinda new to the hobby and setting up my first fuge, a small 5 gallon is anyone using miracle mud? i not sure why it is so expensive. i know it claims to put trace minerals back in the water, but so does a good salt mix right? is it that much better than sand? is it all just hype? good marketing that fools us? any feedback from current users would be great.

thanks anthony

 

[sirreal63]

It is hype and marketing. Many years ago two different assays of it's contents were very revealing.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1925119&highlight=miracle

 

[The Haj]

Snake oil

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Some people with some really nice tanks swear by it though... Personally, I don't think it does what it says because nobody can give even a remotely adequate explanation of how exactly it does the things it claims to do. Refugiums in general are great to have, but you don't need an expensive type of dirt to get the value out of them.

 

[theantman]

wow, marketing can do wonders. thanks for the feedback guys, think i;ll stick to sand and cheato.

 

[allsps40]

I started my tank with Miracle Mud almost 3 years ago and just added Fiji Mud booster. Both are used in my fuge under a layer of sand. I had heard good thing about it and it can hurt anything. You want to use about have mud he half sand. The muds are supposed to leach out trace elements useful to corals and be good for macro algae and mangroves. My mangrove out grew my fuge and I had to part with it. I also have had stable parameter and critters in my fuge that I had never had when I did not use the reef mud.

 

[thebanker]

If you look at the analysis of the mud, it is largely quartz sand with a high content of iron. It creates a very tightly packed mudbed that emulates the effects of an aragonite deep sand bed. Keep in mind that aragonite and quartz sand behave differently because of their different particle shapes, sizes, and porosity. Also the iron content is believed to help with the growth of macroalgae. I cannot explain or justify the aluminum content, nor can I attest to any alleged "beneficial trace minerals" leaching into the water.

Every once in a while a thread on this product appears, and people decry it as snake oil. I think the product works just fine as a mudbed for a refugium. I can't attest to it having magical powers but it is a perfectly fine component of my reef. I still need to dose calcium and alkalinity. I run biopellets, and a skimmer. If I believed in "beneficial trace elements" for reefkeeping, I would probably still dose trace elements. I do not dose iron. I can only speak for the results I've had along with a friend of mine who has kept one longer than I have.

My nitrates are zero, my phosphates are zero, my chaetomorpha grows like a weed, and I have a refugium that is teeming with life.

 

[Faisal1976us]

if you look at the analysis of the mud, it is largely quartz sand with a high content of iron. It creates a very tightly packed mudbed that emulates the effects of an aragonite deep sand bed. Keep in mind that aragonite and quartz sand behave differently because of their different particle shapes, sizes, and porosity. Also the iron content is believed to help with the growth of macroalgae. I cannot explain or justify the aluminum content, nor can i attest to any alleged "beneficial trace minerals" leaching into the water.

Every once in a while a thread on this product appears, and people decry it as snake oil. I think the product works just fine as a mudbed for a refugium. I can't attest to it having magical powers but it is a perfectly fine component of my reef. I still need to dose calcium and alkalinity. I run biopellets, and a skimmer. If i believed in "beneficial trace elements" for reefkeeping, i would probably still dose trace elements. I do not dose iron. I can only speak for the results i've had along with a friend of mine who has kept one longer than i have.

My nitrates are zero, my phosphates are zero, my chaetomorpha grows like a weed, and i have a refugium that is teeming with life.

+1

 

[sirreal63]

the product works just fine as a mudbed for a refugium.

This has been the only beneficial use of the product that can be proved. The assay shows it to be mostly terrestrial soil which explains why it grows mangroves and sea grasses so well as they can benefit from the high iron content. It does work for growing terrestrial plants, if you happen to have any in your reef setup.

While I wouldn't call it snake oil, it is a very limited use product that has little benefit to a reef, fortunately it is mostly inert and doesn't cause any real harm, other than to your wallet.

 

[thebanker]

It is sourced from the Sea of Cortez, it is not terrestrial soil. At some point in geologic history, it probably was terrestrial soil, but at this point it hasn't been for several million years.

 

[goldmaniac]

I've used a fuge with Miracle Mud for a few years, and that was a couple of years ago.

I saw no difference and certainly no benefit to having it. I had a fuge with regular sugar-sized sand for the past couple of years, and no difference to the MM.

I originally started using it in the hopes that i wouldn't need a skimmer, like Leng Sy and the Eco-system method used to claim in the early 2000's. I don't think it contributes to this.

 

[goldmaniac]

...While I wouldn't call it snake oil, it is a very limited use product that has little benefit to a reef, fortunately it is mostly inert and doesn't cause any real harm, other than to your wallet.

I respectfully point out that this is basically the definition of snake oil. Buying something for $$ that doesn't do anything.

 

[sirreal63]

Where did your find where it actually came from? The Gulf of Calif. is not exactly "deep ocean" From Eco's website..."Miracle Mud is comprised of up to 80% oceanic mud, harvested from deep ocean water and then dried on land. The remaining 20% is a formulation of minerals and trace elements..."

Neither assay found any evidence of oceanic origin and make up, particulate size and shape and content pointed to terrestrial soil. When you look at the close up images, the shape alone points to terrestrial origin, sharp, jagged quartz, not smooth and rounded like quartz found in the ocean.

I guess it doesn't really matter, it causes no harm in our tanks but I object to the claims that some of these "mfg" make to sell product.

To quote from their website...
"* Miracle Mud continuously replenishes the mineral and trace element concentration in the aquarium, making this the most comprehensive filter medium available.
* Miracle Mud is the most efficient denitrifying filter medium for the money!
* Miracle Mud reverses Hole-in-the-Head disease!
* Miracle Mud helps maintain the vibrant coloration of all the fishes in the aquarium!
* Not only is the EcoSystem Miracle Mud filter an efficient denitrifying and stand--alone unit, it is also the most comprehensive filtration system on the market!"

It is a placebo at best and often gets attributed to success when in reality good husbandry keeps a system clean and stable. Inert materials have little effect and proper husbandry are the essential elements to success. The mud was used to sell his other products, and was the "feature" that was designed to make his filter system stand out from the competition. Clever marketing for sure, but based on science and fact, it was not.

 

[sirreal63]

I respectfully point out that this is basically the definition of snake oil. Buying something for $$ that doesn't do anything.

It actually does have a use, for growing mangroves and sea grasses because of the high iron content, that is the only reason I don't call it snake oil, just a very limited use product. The ridiculous claims are an irritation but are normal for marketing, and it is even more effective when there is no science to back it up or refute it.

 

[goldmaniac]

it is a placebo at best and often gets attributed to success when in reality good husbandry keeps a system clean and stable. Inert materials have little effect and proper husbandry are the essential elements to success. The mud was used to sell his other products, and was the "feature" that was designed to make his filter system stand out from the competition. Clever marketing for sure, but based on science and fact, it was not.

+1

 

[goldmaniac]

It actually does have a use, for growing mangroves and sea grasses because of the high iron content, that is the only reason I don't call it snake oil, just a very limited use product. The ridiculous claims are an irritation but are normal for marketing, and it is even more effective when there is no science to back it up or refute it.

I stand corrected. I see your point that there may be a small niche where it is useful.