Moorish Idol...Reef safe?

[skairik]

I first want to say that I do not consider myself an expert hobbyist, specializing in such and such a fish or such and such a coral. I don't breed fish or propagate corals nor do I ever plan on doing so. Now having said that:

I have had a Moorish Idol in my 225g reef since February and the previous owner of the tank had him for a while before I got him. The only thing he's ever eaten is Formula Two, which I feed him 2 times daily, same as all my tangs. He is very healthy and does not bother any of my corals. He is however picked on by my Sailfin tang relentlessly but besides that no other problems.

Now from I've been told, the Idol's are found in two parts of the ocean, Hawaii and Bali. I've also been told that its' the ones from Bali you should avoid because they are supposedly the most fickle. The Hawaiian ones are supposedly the hardy variety and in all likelihood that's the one I've got if only because he's such a hardy fish.

I say that because I had an Ich outbreak after I re-set the tank up at my house. All my tangs developed it with the exception of my Idol and in fact one of my Clown fish died from it. Was it luck? Who knows.

All the advice thus far given with regards to this fish is true so there's no debate here. My only advice would be that if you do decide to get an Idol now or in the future at the very least have your tank up and running for at least 6 months and make sure that your water parameters are consistent. If after that time you feel you're up to the challenge then I say go for it. As optimistic as you sound it appears to me that an Idol stands the best chance of making it under your care. Besides, if you don't buy it then someone else will and maybe they won't have the enthusiasim you do.

After all, you got in this hobby for you, right?

 

[NicoleC]

HOW DO YOU ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS....$%!T ! i almost thought i had one ok... but one thing is Trial and Error... if you never try... you will never learn...

Wait, grasshopper, your time will come.

Hey, maybe you WILL be the guy that figures these fish out.

If you want to study how to keep Moorish Idols, wait and keeping studying and researching, and not just on the internet. A lot of marine fish info has never made it to the internet. Learn to spot damaged mouths and other common problems. Come to the club meetings and pick the brains of Fenner, Calfo, etc. on the subject. Schedule a Hawaiian vacation to go diving to see them in the wild. Learn to keep tangs and butterfly fishes happy (distantly related; there are no close relatives.)

If I really, really were sure I was ready for one...

I would have a pair hand collected for me and shipped direct from Hawaii instead of buying a random fish at a store. I would give them a species tank that had been sitting fallow with live rock for 6 months of more, fed daily with phytoplankton of varying species to encourage sponge and microfauna growth, so that it was teeming with natural food to get them on the right track,

300g tank with 2 fish sounds boring? If the fish were a healthy and happy spawning pair of Idols, it would be *magnificent!* Especially if they could be raised in captivity... that's getting a bit ahead of things though. :smokin:

 

[salt e]

I AGREE WITH YOU ALL... I HATE YOU GUYS this is really making my decision hard... i will give it some time before i make my decision... but im sure never the less... i will own the fish... the only matter is WHEN... i will study

 

[golfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7888865#post7888865 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skairik
As optimistic as you sound it appears to me that an Idol stands the best chance of making it under your care. Besides, if you don't buy it then someone else will and maybe they won't have the enthusiasim you do.

After all, you got in this hobby for you, right?

See, here's the touchy part ... if you buy the Idol the guy at the LFS will replace it (that's the thought anyway) so instead of one dead Idol we now have two. Knowing that you can give it a better chance to live is not a reason to buy it....

You never want to buy a critter to "save it" or give it a "better home" knowing that its difficult or impossible to keep alive. Its just one more fish\critter taken from the wild.. We should really try and buy tank raised fish, we try and do the same with corals, correct?


Good luck

 

[skairik]

I agree with you completely. But regardless of whether Joe, Dave, Mark, Steve, Cathy or Bob pass on the fish for your stated reasons it will still sell regardless. Making a personal decision to not buy an Idol will not save it or the hundred others that are imported every week. Let's face it: Idol's are readily available at most LFS. And it's sad because of their mortality rate but nonetheless people keep buying them.

The point I was trying to make was not one of "rescue" but one of "guidance". Quoting my 3 closing sentences and none of the aforementioned precludes the fact that I acknowledged the difficulty in keeping an Idol and also stressed the importance of proper and stable water parameters in excess of 6 months.

salt e seems determined to own an Idol and the advice I offered was one based upon personal experience. There is nothing spectacular about my tank, no special diet for my Idol. He eats Formula II like a glutton, plain and simple. If I've succeeded, why not salt e too?

 

[Paul B]

I have had my current Idol over three years but I believe you should not get one yet. I have been doing this for fifty years and this is the first time I had one live this long. Feeding is not the problem, I have had over a dozen of them and they all ate well. It may have something to do with them living in mated pairs in the sea or the type of sponge they eat. I went on a dive vacation in the Tahitian Islands to study these fish and I learned a lot from it, none of which will help keep them. I myself collect live sponge in New York and freeze it, I feed it almost every day, the Idol is really the only fish that likes this stuff. Also my tank is 100 gallons 6' long and it is much too small. I removed a lot of rock for more swimming room. They like to take 80 yard swims around a reef looking for sponge which is the only thing I saw them eat in Tahiti. They caqn eat well, be nice and fat, act normally and drop dead for no apparent reason. Mine got a severe case of Pop Eye a year ago which I had to operate on to cure. Besides the sponge I feed clams, fresh live plankton, banana, pellets, garlic, avacado, small fish, live black worms, mysis, and flakes soaked in vitamin "A".
I think the most important thing I do with this fish is feed him for two meals a day in a dish. Yes a dish. I have a dish in there with a tube to the surface with a funnel on top. There is an automatic feeder above that that puts pellets in the dish twice a day. The Idol passes the dish every 30 seconds looking for food. You need to feed these fish a lot and often. It is really messing up my water. He eats much more than all the 15 other fish combined.
Have a great day.
Paul:dance:

This picture was taken two years ago when he was young. He is as large as the dish now which is completely covered in coraline algae. I would never just put food in for this fish (or any other fish) All his other meals are given with a large baster looking thing that I made.
Good luck.

 

[NicoleC]

Thanks for your input, Paul!

For those of you who haven't seen his posts, Paul does everything the "wrong" way and has good success with it. Every now and then Paul pops into a discussion and reminds everyone that the "right" way doesn't always work better.

 

[zeuss zoso]

What LFS is this. I am in Torrance as well. I would say get it and get a lot of special food and order some live sponges or whatever it needs. I saw one in my LFS and the guy said if someone had an 150 gallon tank they could EASILY keep it. Some other knucklehead will buy if you don't, and if it is healthy and eating even more of a reason.
Alex
P.S. listen to what everyone says, not just what you want to hear.

 

[GTR]

So if a walk through the Walmart parking lot and see a $100 bill sitting on the front seat of the BMW with the window rolled down and nobody around I should reach in a take it because someone else is certain to before the owner gets back?

Sorry it's the same thing to me.

SteveU

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Here's a little reading and research for you. I'd follow Pauls advice as he's been at this a while and HAS done a bit of research on them.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=607477

Unfortunatly little research has been done on this fish. There are a few people, like 3, that have actually kept them longer than a few years. The Long Beach Aquarium has a school of them that they have had since they opened.

Also I did finally get a wholesaler to admit that he lost more blue tangs in his holding tanks than he did Moorish idols.

 

[zeuss zoso]

Laws?

Laws?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7894369#post7894369 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gtrestoration
So if a walk through the Walmart parking lot and see a $100 bill sitting on the front seat of the BMW with the window rolled down and nobody around I should reach in a take it because someone else is certain to before the owner gets back?

Sorry it's the same thing to me.

SteveU

That is against the law. If it is sitting on the street and no one is around hell yah I am going to take it, or else some other schmo will. It is not the same thing because there is no law saying I can't buy a moorish idol. Sorry for the rant.
No worries,
Alex

 

[GTR]

That's I guess where some people see things differently. For me just because there hasn't been legislation making something illegal (yet) doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

I don't see your comments as rants BTW nor am I trying to convert anyone. JMO is all.

There are so many other fish available whose needs are much easier to meet that I really see no need to risk this fishes life (or my money) to prove the masses are all wrong.

B63... thanks for the link, interesting thread. Other than the regular feeding schedule I don't see a lot of husbandry changes to accomadate the MI. I see he's collecting some sponge for food but the auto feeder it seems is supplying much more food? I've never been one to worry much about size of fish vs size of tank but the LB Aquarium's success in the outdoor system is interesting to say the least.

SteveU

 

[Paul B]

As far as I know there is only one person that kept one for eight years. Public aquariums don't count. You can keep anything in a public aquarium of a few thousand gallons with unlimited expenses.
I never spoke to the guy with the eight year old Idol and it may even be a fantasy.
There is something about these fish, and I do not think it is food, that prevents them from living more than a few years. Most people keep them a few weeks. I hope mine lives to eight or nine as most of my other fish do. Time will tell.
Paul

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I think the "extra" swimming room may have something to do with it.

There are some otehr threads here on RC discussing Mi.I's that have a few good links in them as well. I just don't remember if I posted them all in the begning of that thread.

Once I get my 400G tank moved and settled in, like about a year or two from now, I'm going to see about trying one, or two, in that tank.

 

[Paul B]

Chevy, set that sucker up. I know you have a new career now but you have to have prioroties. :lol:

 

[salt e]

still reading... thank you for link... will review now. this is all very good info... zeuss zoso...PM sent

 

[tikalize]

Hello all, I dont have any knowlege to bring to the table as a Newb but....Iam learning alot on forum members posts. As far as the Idol keeping i hear that some members have a great concern about keeping this fish & the mortality rate is High. IMO i think what works for one individual may not work for another. I maybe wrong but just my opinion...By the way thanks skairik for the opportunity to meet with you. This is a good guy...... Nice Idol. Just as described..............Thanks RC for giving me a place to voice my opinion.

 

[salt e]

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Hey Paul, I'm working on it.

Got the stand taken care of and leveled. Setting up the sump and polishing out the tank now. Should have water in it in a few more weeks.

 

[Paul B]

Chevy, I would like to see some pictures when your done. I am changing water tomorrow so I added some Chemi Clean yesterday. I love that stuff.
I have to put off my trip to California to go to Sicily. We hape to see some of the small Islands there and do some Mediteranian diving.
Take care,
Paul