My 1.5 drain isn't keeping up with my Mag 9.5

[smp]

What gives?
I thought I did the research. Right now i have a test setup, I just dry fit everything.
Here's a pic

Now, I know I don't have any tees or elbows in that pic and that's true. I just put on a T fitting and then two 90 degree elbows on either one, then a PVC to flex hose connector (it slims down) on either of those.
Still no go.
It's better now, the water isn't rising as quickly over the bulkhead as it was, but it's still going over.
What gives?

 

[kbmdale]

Do you have a cap on the top of the tee.. And if so how big is the hole you drilled in it. If its to big it will hender the flow...If it has no cap as it appears in the pic you will get very little flow.

 

[smp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6541067#post6541067 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kbmdale
Do you have a cap on the top of the tee.. And if so how big is the hole you drilled in it. If its to big it will hender the flow...If it has no cap as it appears in the pic you will get very little flow.

No kidding? I didn't know that, but i have been experimenting...

As you can see in this second pic there is a cap (there wasn't in the original pic, I have been experimenting with that). I put the cap at a slight angle to sort of reproduce a little hole (the gap between the cap and the pipe). Doesn't seem to matter what i do here, the flow is the same .. unless I 100% plug it and then I get a siphon of course.

Alright, the other thing I did was lose the barb fitting that narrowed own to fit the flex hose over it .. now it's all solid right to the sump and it's the same story. I'm depressed.
Reef Central's drain size calculator lied to me!!!

 

[sjm817]

It looks like you have the output of the 9.5 throttled back too. Is that 3/4" hose?

What is on the tank side of the bulkhead?

 

[smp]

That's correct, 3/4" hose dude
On the tank side I have one 90 degree elbow a la Durso standpipe, 1.5"

 

[leeehawkins]

I had a Mag 9.5 and a 1.5" drain and it worked great on my 55 gal. I think the 90 degree you have in the tank is what's doing it. You really dont need that 90 though.

 

[kbmdale]

Drill a 1/8" hole in the top of the cap and put it completely on. See if that helps. That will keep it from creating a syphon but not let enough air in to restrict flow

 

[smp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6541530#post6541530 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kbmdale
Drill a 1/8" hole in the top of the cap and put it completely on. See if that helps. That will keep it from creating a syphon but not let enough air in to restrict flow

It's my only cap, I don't want to drill it just yet.
What i was planning on doing is drilling a tiny hole, seeing how it sounds and then progressively getting it bigger until I found the right balance.
I don't see how having it wide open would restrict flow, that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[sjm817]

With the 9.5 throttled back with the 3/4", a 1" drain would more than handle it. I also think the elbow in the tank may be the problem. It is pointing down? There is no skimmer box?

 

[kbmdale]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6541552#post6541552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
It's my only cap, I don't want to drill it just yet.
What i was planning on doing is drilling a tiny hole, seeing how it sounds and then progressively getting it bigger until I found the right balance.
I don't see how having it wide open would restrict flow, that doesn't make sense to me.

if its wide open its pulling equal parts water and air, and in some cases less water than air. You want a siphon. Just not a full pipe.

 

[smp]

Drilling a hole kills the siphon, doesn't it?

Regardless, I think I narrowed it down. The 1.5" bulkhead I have is threaded female on the inside (of tank) where the 90 degree elbow is screwed into it .. the inside of this elbow is probably like 1" :\
Now, I took it out and just left the bulkhead open and the flow was almost equal with the 9.5 still overpowering it SLIGHTLY.
I still don't know what gives because the inside of the bulkhead is more than 1" for sure, probably 1.3" or something after the threads and what not.
I don't know.


Also, I made a mistake, the return line is 1" flex, not 3/4. The barbs are slimmer though, so....
I don't know.

 

[kbmdale]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6541657#post6541657 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
Drilling a hole kills the siphon, doesn't it?

Regardless, I think I narrowed it down. The 1.5" bulkhead I have is threaded female on the inside (of tank) where the 90 degree elbow is screwed into it .. the inside of this elbow is probably like 1" :\
Now, I took it out and just left the bulkhead open and the flow was almost equal with the 9.5 still overpowering it SLIGHTLY.
I still don't know what gives because the inside of the bulkhead is more than 1" for sure, probably 1.3" or something after the threads and what not.
I don't know.


Also, I made a mistake, the return line is 1" flex, not 3/4. The barbs are slimmer though, so....
I don't know.

not really kill the siphon more like controls it. read up on dorso's. Without the cap with hole, it will not work corretly. You'll get it figured out

 

[smp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6541677#post6541677 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kbmdale
not really kill the siphon more like controls it. read up on dorso's. Without the cap with hole, it will not work corretly. You'll get it figured out

All I've been doing is reading for the past year!!!!
I want a working fish tank already! Well, I have one .. it's just sumpless.

edit: but yes, I think I understand the durso standpipe. I still wouldn't call it a siphon, I call it the carbeurator of the aquarium!

 

[kbmdale]

lol...Yeah its a carbeaurator, and if its not tuned right it will run like SH@#...lol

 

[smp]

I guess I'm gonna have to get a smaller return pump.

Which also means I'll have to use the 9.5 for a closed loop!
I really, really don't want to spend any more money though, I have gone WAAAAAAY over budget.
Mag 3.5, or Mag 5?

I have hole saws that I got so I can drill for bulkheads for the closed loop, make it nice and clean.

 

[sjm817]

What is the setup? A 29G with a ??G sump? A Mag3 would be more than enough for a return on that setup.

 

[kbmdale]

Before you go buying a different pump....Buy a cap, put a 1/8 hole in it. Take the elbow off an let her rip....Worst case your out a 50 cent cap not a 50 dollar pump... Trust me I have been there. A mag 9.5 shouldn't overun a 1.5" pipe. You could also add another drain pipe.

 

[kbmdale]

Also if your drain pipe goes to deep in the water (over 4") in your sump you will get a back pressure effect and it will slow flow.

 

[smp]

The drain was above the water line.
I experimented with how much air was getting into the drain by 'gapping' the cap and letting through various amounts of air, none of it helped.

The sump is 20 gallons.
I see people do this all the time .. it's a sump with chaeto in it, not exactly a fuge and I'm basing my extreme flow through that chaeto on this thread.

I wanted to avoid having to buy two pumps, I wanted to create flow in my tank and return water from the sump in one shot.
It should be doable!

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Cut a notch in the pipe you slip the cap onto, and adjust the size of the opening by how much you put the cap on. Does that make sense?