My Breeding attempt - Perculas:

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13693105#post13693105 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by subman719
dazed- Now you have me worried about having the tank shut down thing. I had mine shut down last night for 7 hours. I figured if all the livestock was able to survive overnight shipping in a box, it can survive 7 hours in a bigger environment. I have two programs in my automation system: one for normal operation and one for "larvae hatch mode". I just load the appropriate program when needed. I do have a heater and power head in my sump because it's being used as a frag tank which stays on the whole time. Also, I have two 150 watt heaters in my main tank behind the rocks to maintain temp and some circulation through convection. I'm thinking of installing a Maxi-Jet 1200 down behind the rocks with a hose run remotely above to provide some circulation and push the larvae towards the light at the other end of the tank. Maybe this will buy me more time so I can get some sleep and catch them in the morning. I'm willing to try anything at this point. This is getting ridiculous! I've lost 6 batches total, the last 3 being completely missed! Yes, I did lose last nights hatch. I posted details in my thread.

7 hours you have nerves of steel my friend :eek2:
I freak out with shutting down the tank for the catching process i stretched it this time to the 3 hour mark (Sam Adams in hand). I was very lucky a couple of months back and witnessed first hand the effects on my tank after we lost power during the night; it's back a couple of pages in either this thread or my build thread but after 6 hours i had fish laying on the sandbed. I fired up my generator in the nick of time and did not lose anything.

"edit" i just read melev post and it is the reason why i can't sit still during the tank being shut down.

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13693746#post13693746 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rrcg50

Disclaimer: I am no expert; but those look like occ's to me not true percs. Due to the lack of black between the white stripes and the color of the eyes. True percs have more black to them and the color of the iris in the eye should be orange not solid black as your picture shows. This would also support the time frame you posted for when you are seeing the stripes etc.

Anybody want to clarify for me?

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13693887#post13693887 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
People have lost fish to oxygen deprivation in less hours than that, as the sandbed (DSB) soaks it all up from the system. Hatching usually occurs 1 hour after lights out, so 7 hours seems too long to me. I wouldn't risk it with my reef, that's for sure.

If my main display is without power for one hour, I pull out the generator until the power company restores electricity.

You can't compare a tank with a biological filter to a bag of water in transport. As you know, one of the reasons acclimation is so important is because ammonia levels have risen in the bag and pH is depressed. Bringing up pH quickly can burn the gills of the fish as the ammonia now becomes toxic. And that is just a bag of water...

+1 and is the exact reason i drink on the nights i go fishing for the larvae.

I am starting to think that usual is not a word to use when trying to raise the babies.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13694048#post13694048 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dazed
Disclaimer: I am no expert; but those look like occ's to me not true percs. Due to the lack of black between the white stripes and the color of the eyes. True percs have more black to them and the color of the iris in the eye should be orange not solid black as your picture shows. This would also support the time frame you posted for when you are seeing the stripes etc.

Anybody want to clarify for me?

I tend to agree. Here are two pictures, with a mated pair of clowns. One is a True Percula, the other is a False (ocellaris):

The smaller one is the False percula, born in 2003. The larger one is 12 years old.

These next two pictures are mated Black Onyx percs, tank raised by someone in Houston. They don't look black at all, but I'd have to call them false percs as well. Still pretty, but not pretty enough.

 

[billsreef]

Unfortunately you can not go by color alone to differentiate the two species. There are plenty of color morphs of true percs that look identical to common color morphs of occellaris. In those cases, you have to go with meristics, i.e. spine counts, body depth to length ratios and such.

 

[rrcg50]

the place where i brought them from said they were true percs and the owner is a marine biologist. i have another pair in my tank across the room from them and there eyes are the same color but they do have more black to them. i can try and get more pics and see what you guys think. man i will be miffed if they sold me occ's instead for the price i paid

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13694415#post13694415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Unfortunately you can not go by color alone to differentiate the two species. There are plenty of color morphs of true percs that look identical to common color morphs of occellaris. In those cases, you have to go with meristics, i.e. spine counts, body depth to length ratios and such.

Bill; are you talking about the color morph of the bodies correct?
I know that at times some develop more black than others; i have read posts from people who were not happy that there expensive clownfish did not color up the way they had hoped.

Do you know any information about the color of the eyes? You can see the difference in the pictures that melev posted even, the one that he is calling a false perc has the dark completely black eye and the other does not? Both of the mated Black Onyx percs show the same color in the iris of the eye. The center is black but is surrounded by orange?

I have tried to count the spines on mine from pictures before but i think that method would work best on a dead fish.

 

[dazed]

Melev; absolutely stunning pictures as always they look nice & happy tucked away in their rbta. I just checked your site and found out i missed out on the group buy but you also posted that another pair of yours laid there first set of eggs? That pair is a different set then the ones in your main reef?

Since everyone is posting pictures today here is my female (orca)

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you can see in the picture that the eye is not solid black which is one thing i had thought was a indicator maybe maybe not?

 

[melev]

I know, I just added to the confusion because of the eyes, and was thinking about that even as I posted it.

Your female clown is gorgeous.

Yes, the clowns in the RBTA are offspring from Black Onyx Percs, and they have laid two clutches so far, starting last month.

The mated pair in the main reef have been laying eggs for 5 years.

 

[rrcg50]

if the eye thing is true then i have a pair of perocs. the male has the orange ring and the female has total black eyes. my other pair which i brought as true percs also has the orange with black eyes that everyone is talking about. they are hidding in there frog spawn right now but will see if i can get pics.

older pic

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13695619#post13695619 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I know, I just added to the confusion because of the eyes, and was thinking about that even as I posted it.

Your female clown is gorgeous.

Yes, the clowns in the RBTA are offspring from Black Onyx Percs, and they have laid two clutches so far, starting last month.

The mated pair in the main reef have been laying eggs for 5 years.

Time to start up the rot's again and make a new page for your site; come on you know you want to. It's not like your busy or anything:lol:
you could have that tank full of clowns that you have always talked about

 

[dazed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13695776#post13695776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rrcg50
if the eye thing is true then i have a pair of perocs. the male has the orange ring and the female has total black eyes. my other pair which i brought as true percs also has the orange with black eyes that everyone is talking about. they are hidding in there frog spawn right now but will see if i can get pics.

Like i said i am no expert and do not want to be quoted as saying the eye thing is true but it is obvious that there are differences out there. I can understand not wanting to pay for percs and have occ's swimming in the tank because i know around here that the true percs fetch a price around 3 times that of the occ's.

I still don't understand how if yours are true percs at 20 days old with a 3rd stripe though as that goes against everything i have read so far. Even in Joyce's book she states that true percs can take months to develop even their 2nd stripe and can take up to a year to show the 3rd one. Maybe you do have 1 perc and 1 occ. they will cross breed as you are aware. It just seems to me with the timeframe that you have posted for development goes along with the occ's.

Just for fun what color are the eyes on the little ones that you have?? All of my babies look like the mom with the eye thing??

 

[rrcg50]

i wiull check

 

[rkelman]

"from my reading the amonia reducers stunts/ slows there growth rate. not sure on the chloramx but i know that amquel does"

Is there any proof of this? I use Amquel with no negative effects that I can tell.

 

[rrcg50]

there are several write ups on the web about the effects on size and the time it takes for development with amquel. i do not know with chloramx. i just change the water as much as i can and that seems to do the trick for me.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13695392#post13695392 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dazed
Bill; are you talking about the color morph of the bodies correct?

Correct, and the current crop of "designer" clowns makes this even less reliable.

Do you know any information about the color of the eyes?

It's one of those "myths" that just exists among hobbyists, not something you'll find in any proper reference that will actually help you ID the fish

 

[rrcg50]

well now i want to split my pair up.....ummmm maybe not. she just laid 587 eggs yesterday. now if i can get more than 10 to survive it will be nice

 

[rkelman]

I don't believe the Amquel thing.. Mine are getting stripes at 7 days.. and I use amquel until after meta when I put a sponge filter in. It maybe one of those things that becomes "fact" in our hobby without any actual studies.

 

[rrcg50]

could possibly be true. just like the eye thing. i guess i will never know becausee the two that i can get a good look at one has the orange ring around the eye and the other one does not. imagine that. just to add more confusion

 

[rrcg50]

sorry i was agreeing with you about the amquel. no data to support that i can find.
someone wanted me to check the babies eyes and i did as posted above