douggiestyle
New member
tanks bean
My home circuit trips with new setup.
- Thread starter dannieboiz
- Start date
tanks bean
Reefdaddy1
In Memoriam
Dannie>>>> Your wiring if it was like mine in Arizona is all in the attack. No need to tear out walls. Fire block is a minimum concern. If you crawl in there you can fish your lines through and hook em up at minimum cost. Its not that hard.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I think if you look back over the thread, you will find they the aquarium is on slab and this is a two story house. DIY or novice fishing is not going to be easy.
Bean
Bean
douggiestyle
New member
ive used a product similar to this at work. its very unubtrusive.
http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-cover/
http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-cover/
MayoBoy
Movin' on Up
Bean,
It's probably also a location thing. My first house was built in 1919 and was all knob and tube - we moved rather than try and rewire it (didn't help that the staircase was about 60 degrees and we had a baby that was starting to crawl...) I've been in a few houses here (St. Louis) and a lot of them run 20 amp branches to the rooms. Of course, the older ones were originally fuses and might have 3 different rooms on one fuse. BX was never real popular around here except in exposed garages and basements.
Now the house I grew up in Pittsburgh; it was in Bunker Hill I think (off Grafton Street?) was OLD. I'd love to have that house now but I'd hate to think of trying to re-wire it. Besides the wiring in the walls, there were gas lines running all over for interior lighting.
It's probably also a location thing. My first house was built in 1919 and was all knob and tube - we moved rather than try and rewire it (didn't help that the staircase was about 60 degrees and we had a baby that was starting to crawl...) I've been in a few houses here (St. Louis) and a lot of them run 20 amp branches to the rooms. Of course, the older ones were originally fuses and might have 3 different rooms on one fuse. BX was never real popular around here except in exposed garages and basements.
Now the house I grew up in Pittsburgh; it was in Bunker Hill I think (off Grafton Street?) was OLD. I'd love to have that house now but I'd hate to think of trying to re-wire it. Besides the wiring in the walls, there were gas lines running all over for interior lighting.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
no idea where bunker hill is... may not even be called that anymore. But yes, location may have a lot to do with it. MY whole house was powered by an a 8 circuit 100 amp service when I bought it. 2-pole to the stove, 2-pole to the AC, 1 circuit for the washer and gas dryer and guest bathroom and tv room. 1 Circuit for the fridge and 1 for the rest of the kitchen. The last was for the rest of the house.
Dannie.. have you been able to make any progress with regards to your problem?
Dannie.. have you been able to make any progress with regards to your problem?
dannieboiz
Active member
It's chinese new year for us this weekend. Have not done anything. I found out why it's been tripping though....
As stated b4 I have a 100w lamp connected to that circuit. There's also a fridge in our garage that's on the same circuit. I moved that plug across the room already and the lights has been moved to a different location. I think I should be ok for now until I figure out what to do.
As stated b4 I have a 100w lamp connected to that circuit. There's also a fridge in our garage that's on the same circuit. I moved that plug across the room already and the lights has been moved to a different location. I think I should be ok for now until I figure out what to do.
DougSupreme
New member
The county that I live in requires all wiring to be #12. No #14 in my house either.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
sam, how many tanks do you know of that are in kitchens bathrooms or laundry rooms? His circuit may very well be 20A but that still does not change the fact that most homes are wired with 15A recepticle branch circuits.
Furthermore the 20 AMP laundry recepticle is only to be used for laundry equipment and can include only the wiring device needed for that equipment, and no other outlets.
The bathroom 20A branch circuit is required and CAN NOT supply any other load or outlet outside of the bathroom (a light in the bathroom is permited).
The 20A circuits required in a kitchen or dining area are listed as "small appliance" outlets and can have no other outlets outside of these areas.
So yes, of course there are parts of the home that do have 20A circuits, however those circuits are only in those rooms and are not suitable for a load such as an aquarium.
Furthermore, in an older home, the 20A branch circuits listed above were NOT a requirement.
Of course some localities may have codes that go beyond what is required by the NEC in terms of equipment and inpsection.... this is also a rare thing nd usualy the result of a local politician and contractor being related or in business together Thats for another thread....
Walk into a $700,000 home and tell me how many 20A circuits you find? If the buyer did not specify an upgrade, they will not be there.
Bean
Furthermore the 20 AMP laundry recepticle is only to be used for laundry equipment and can include only the wiring device needed for that equipment, and no other outlets.
The bathroom 20A branch circuit is required and CAN NOT supply any other load or outlet outside of the bathroom (a light in the bathroom is permited).
The 20A circuits required in a kitchen or dining area are listed as "small appliance" outlets and can have no other outlets outside of these areas.
So yes, of course there are parts of the home that do have 20A circuits, however those circuits are only in those rooms and are not suitable for a load such as an aquarium.
Furthermore, in an older home, the 20A branch circuits listed above were NOT a requirement.
Of course some localities may have codes that go beyond what is required by the NEC in terms of equipment and inpsection.... this is also a rare thing nd usualy the result of a local politician and contractor being related or in business together
Thats for another thread....Walk into a $700,000 home and tell me how many 20A circuits you find? If the buyer did not specify an upgrade, they will not be there.
Bean
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Dannie, did you ever look to see if it is a 15A or 20A circuit?
Taking the 100 Watt lamp and the fridge off of the circuit likely have saved you 400-600 watts... That is someplace in the neighborhood of 3.5-5.5 AMPS.
At this point you may want to consider buying the kill-a-watt or clamp on meter (sears has them) and checking your current draw with everything on the aquarium running (with the heater cylced on).
Lets us now what you come up with and what size the breaker is.
Bean
Taking the 100 Watt lamp and the fridge off of the circuit likely have saved you 400-600 watts... That is someplace in the neighborhood of 3.5-5.5 AMPS.
At this point you may want to consider buying the kill-a-watt or clamp on meter (sears has them) and checking your current draw with everything on the aquarium running (with the heater cylced on).
Lets us now what you come up with and what size the breaker is.
Bean
"You don't see #12 branch circuits in residential wiring, unless the home owner put them in, or requested them to be put in."
"So yes, of course there are parts of the home that do have 20A circuits,"
Wern't these posted by the same person? I guess it depends on what "is" means.
"So yes, of course there are parts of the home that do have 20A circuits,"
Wern't these posted by the same person? I guess it depends on what "is" means.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Sam are you trolling, it sure does seem like it? I have tried to be polite, but honestly this is about the 5th time you have jumped on a thread I am invloved in. Each time you seem to jam a foot square in your mouth instead of adding useful content or context to the thread.
Both statements I made are true. Neither is dependent on the other. If you are unable to decipher context, then I urge you to take literacy classes. The context here is a branch circuit that an aquarium is running on.
You seemed to want to quote or reference the NEC and requirements, but neglected to recognize that the 20A circuits that are required ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR ANYTHIG BUT THEIR DESIGNATED PURPOSE. Again, this may be a reading comprehension problem on your part, or more likely a poor attempt at trolling for a fight.
If you really want to go through the different eras of wiring and types of service, then we can. I can easily show you (prove to you) that 20A general recepticle circuits are a rare thing.
I honestly doubt that you are illiterate or stupid. In the future instead of trolling a thread (or me) to appear smart, why not add something useful. I surely know what I am talking about and have attempted to help the OP as well as others who stumble into this thread. You on the other hand seem to always want to debate a useless point regarding a general point made in a post.
You trolled, now don't complain that I have responded. If you have something useful to say then by all means do. If you insist on debating the context and meaning of my comments, please save us all the grief.
Bean
Both statements I made are true. Neither is dependent on the other. If you are unable to decipher context, then I urge you to take literacy classes. The context here is a branch circuit that an aquarium is running on.
You seemed to want to quote or reference the NEC and requirements, but neglected to recognize that the 20A circuits that are required ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR ANYTHIG BUT THEIR DESIGNATED PURPOSE. Again, this may be a reading comprehension problem on your part, or more likely a poor attempt at trolling for a fight.
If you really want to go through the different eras of wiring and types of service, then we can. I can easily show you (prove to you) that 20A general recepticle circuits are a rare thing.
I honestly doubt that you are illiterate or stupid. In the future instead of trolling a thread (or me) to appear smart, why not add something useful. I surely know what I am talking about and have attempted to help the OP as well as others who stumble into this thread. You on the other hand seem to always want to debate a useless point regarding a general point made in a post.
You trolled, now don't complain that I have responded. If you have something useful to say then by all means do. If you insist on debating the context and meaning of my comments, please save us all the grief.
Bean
"""Walk into a $700,000 home and tell me how many 20A circuits you find? If the buyer did not specify an upgrade, they will not be there."""
I asked a reputable builder I know in the Pittsburgh area that builds houses in the $500k - $1M range and they do not use any #14 - all #12 or better and 20A breakers minimum. For a house in that range the cost is minimal. I personally use the 20A breaker that was originally installed in our dining room - not much on it anyway.....
I asked a reputable builder I know in the Pittsburgh area that builds houses in the $500k - $1M range and they do not use any #14 - all #12 or better and 20A breakers minimum. For a house in that range the cost is minimal. I personally use the 20A breaker that was originally installed in our dining room - not much on it anyway.....
dannieboiz
Active member
This would only be in newer homes. You won't find a new home for under $750k in my area. (unless it's a town house) It sucks to live in Cali.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Sam exactly what is your point?
Nothing I have said is incorrect and nothing you have said is relavant to the point. Furthermore you have offered nothing here but contention that I contradicted myself, something that certainly is not the case. I don't care if you see 18,000 homes a year. In general, it is a safe assumption that most homes are not wired with 20A general receptacle circuits. You have showed nor said anything that would indicate differently. Instead you have listed the 3 cases where circuits are REQUIRED to be 20A. None of these cases are relavant to the conversation or point being made. Out of all 4 required circuits the only one that could possibly (or legaly within code) be used for an aquarium would be one of the two small appliance circuits for the kitchen area. Again this is unlikely in this context and surely does not indicite that 20A branches are common. Until recently the (2) 20A kitchen branches were commonly a shared neutral circuit daisy chained between wall outlets. Again unlikely that an aquariun would be on these circuits.
I have also stated:
In older homes #14 wire was standard for just about everything. In newer homes it is used wherever possible and #12 is not required. The only real exception is when the homeowner or developer requests an upgrade. Some areas may require #12 wire as part of local building codes or permiting.
Shall we ponder the amount of #14 wire sold as compared to #12 or the 15A residential style breakers as opposed to the 20A size?
Lets also look at the recent cost of copper. Every builder I know is using #14 for everything that they can. My family incluudes several journeyman electricians that talk about this on a daily basis.
Sam you claim to be an insepctor... you should then know that most contrators only do the bare minimum to meet code. To do any more is spending uneeded money. Developers do not add additional cost unless they are required to or trying to please a certain market.
Shall we keep making the point Sam or are you done being a troll? Do you even have a point?
Again, if you don't have any useful information to add to this thread, then please refrain saying anything at all. To this point you have yet to say anything useful or relavant to the topic of this thread and instead firmly parked yourself under one end of the bridge to badger me and hte other passers by.
Nothing I have said is incorrect and nothing you have said is relavant to the point. Furthermore you have offered nothing here but contention that I contradicted myself, something that certainly is not the case. I don't care if you see 18,000 homes a year. In general, it is a safe assumption that most homes are not wired with 20A general receptacle circuits. You have showed nor said anything that would indicate differently. Instead you have listed the 3 cases where circuits are REQUIRED to be 20A. None of these cases are relavant to the conversation or point being made. Out of all 4 required circuits the only one that could possibly (or legaly within code) be used for an aquarium would be one of the two small appliance circuits for the kitchen area. Again this is unlikely in this context and surely does not indicite that 20A branches are common. Until recently the (2) 20A kitchen branches were commonly a shared neutral circuit daisy chained between wall outlets. Again unlikely that an aquariun would be on these circuits.
I have also stated:
In older homes #14 wire was standard for just about everything. In newer homes it is used wherever possible and #12 is not required. The only real exception is when the homeowner or developer requests an upgrade. Some areas may require #12 wire as part of local building codes or permiting.
Shall we ponder the amount of #14 wire sold as compared to #12 or the 15A residential style breakers as opposed to the 20A size?
Lets also look at the recent cost of copper. Every builder I know is using #14 for everything that they can. My family incluudes several journeyman electricians that talk about this on a daily basis.
Sam you claim to be an insepctor... you should then know that most contrators only do the bare minimum to meet code. To do any more is spending uneeded money. Developers do not add additional cost unless they are required to or trying to please a certain market.
Shall we keep making the point Sam or are you done being a troll? Do you even have a point?
Again, if you don't have any useful information to add to this thread, then please refrain saying anything at all. To this point you have yet to say anything useful or relavant to the topic of this thread and instead firmly parked yourself under one end of the bridge to badger me and hte other passers by.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
brian... I dunno what homes he is looking at or building, but I have done a lot of work in some new and very epensive homes in the higher end areas of this city and suburbs and have been absolutely astounded at the crap I have seen. I am sure there some better developers and contractors out there, they are just few and far between.
I also toured my in-laws mansion-like home and about 4 others under construction in the cinicinati suburbs as they were being built last winter. Most of the houses had 2-3 furnaces and 2-3 150-200A panels. Would you venture a guess on how many 20A circuits they had?
Like I said, you will not find any #14 in my home, I have pulled it all out (old BX) and replaced it with #12. My 30x30 ranch has a full 200A 40 space panel, a 100Amp sub panel that is half full, a 4 space 75 panel for the aquarium, a 4 space 75a panel for the outdoor toolshed and will likely have a 100A panel when I build my garage. Each room has it's own circuit for outlets and most have their own lighting circuit. My home office has 3 computer circuits due to the number of computers and UPSs running here. Etc. 40 breakers don't go very far in a modern home.
This is all beyond the scope of this conversation though.
I also toured my in-laws mansion-like home and about 4 others under construction in the cinicinati suburbs as they were being built last winter. Most of the houses had 2-3 furnaces and 2-3 150-200A panels. Would you venture a guess on how many 20A circuits they had?
Like I said, you will not find any #14 in my home, I have pulled it all out (old BX) and replaced it with #12. My 30x30 ranch has a full 200A 40 space panel, a 100Amp sub panel that is half full, a 4 space 75 panel for the aquarium, a 4 space 75a panel for the outdoor toolshed and will likely have a 100A panel when I build my garage. Each room has it's own circuit for outlets and most have their own lighting circuit. My home office has 3 computer circuits due to the number of computers and UPSs running here. Etc. 40 breakers don't go very far in a modern home.
This is all beyond the scope of this conversation though.
cannarella
New member
Bean, funny seeing you here in the DIY section. 
To support your point, I only have about 4 circuits that are 20A. The rest is 15A #14 wire just like you have been saying and my house is only 7 years old.
Everyone, listen closely to Bean, he does not spew crap, he knows his stuff.
Andy
To support your point, I only have about 4 circuits that are 20A. The rest is 15A #14 wire just like you have been saying and my house is only 7 years old.Everyone, listen closely to Bean, he does not spew crap, he knows his stuff.
Andy
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Doh... my head is swelling and the lady of the house is doubled over laughing.
Thanks for the support and nice seein gyou around. I honestly don't even know why the average circuit ampacity of an American home is an issue...
Just waiting on the OP to fill us in on his findings and see if there is any other way we can help him safely mange the power for his setup.
Thanks for the support and nice seein gyou around. I honestly don't even know why the average circuit ampacity of an American home is an issue...
Just waiting on the OP to fill us in on his findings and see if there is any other way we can help him safely mange the power for his setup.
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