my house reef (211 g.)
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TryTheChi
Member
Hey Marc
You grew up there? Your parents international bankers? Which school did you go to? Its a nice place, although in Swiss terms its the 'industrial north east'. My family settled in Freiburg Im Schwartwald after WW2 just over the border.
The Alps and Black Forrest are my favorite areas in europe geographically - and quality is first nature there - so its no surprise to see Iwans tank coming from that region:thumbsup: The thing i miss most is brodchen und wurst mit senf.
Just checked lenzburg on google - nice castle there Iwan
jnarowe
New member
"shill" is English! LOL...
It means someone who is planted for nefarious reasons. So let's say you attend a religious Healing Service and someone from the audience is "cured" right before your eyes, that would be a shill.
They are used a lot in sales, particularly on the web now. So when you read reviews of a product, often there are shills giving excellent reviews to boost product sales. I can't really think of a better example right now, but that should give you the general gist of it, I hope! BTW, "(j/k)" means "just joking"....
PS. I believe shill comes from a British lineage linked to the shilling.
It means someone who is planted for nefarious reasons. So let's say you attend a religious Healing Service and someone from the audience is "cured" right before your eyes, that would be a shill.
They are used a lot in sales, particularly on the web now. So when you read reviews of a product, often there are shills giving excellent reviews to boost product sales. I can't really think of a better example right now, but that should give you the general gist of it, I hope! BTW, "(j/k)" means "just joking"....
PS. I believe shill comes from a British lineage linked to the shilling.
TryTheChi
Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6723162#post6723162 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
"shill" is English! LOL...
It means someone who is planted for nefarious reasons. So let's say you attend a religious Healing Service and someone from the audience is "cured" right before your eyes, that would be a shill.
They are used a lot in sales, particularly on the web now. So when you read reviews of a product, often there are shills giving excellent reviews to boost product sales. I can't really think of a better example right now, but that should give you the general gist of it, I hope! BTW, "(j/k)" means "just joking"....
PS. I believe shill comes from a British lineage linked to the shilling.
Hey Jon
thanks for that - I understand now - and feel even more insulted over on the 'other' board now :thumbdown lol - btw the religious analogy seems approapriate to that particular individual's approach to open enquiry, and puts my 'astonishing experience' in context
The British shilling was abandoned in 1970 when we decimalised -thank god! 144 pence to the pound? Who came up with that!!
Yeah I go the j/k meaning - just a genuine Q on the above
Cheers
Simon
melev
Well-known member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6723040#post6723040 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TryTheChi
Hey Marc
You grew up there? Your parents international bankers? Which school did you go to? Its a nice place, although in Swiss terms its the 'industrial north east'. My family settled in Freiburg Im Schwartwald after WW2 just over the border.
The Alps and Black Forrest are my favorite areas in europe geographically - and quality is first nature there - so its no surprise to see Iwans tank coming from that region:thumbsup: The thing i miss most is brodchen und wurst mit senf.
Just checked lenzburg on google - nice castle there Iwan
I have a few favorite spots in Basel that are home to me. I went to Seevogli in Basel, which was for younger kids as far as I know. I attend 2nd to 4th grade there. I remember how I was the only english speaking student in the class, but a beautiful girl named Petra Leber spoke English because her parents had been missionaries in Africa. She and the teacher worked with me and within 6 months I was pretty much speaking swiss german fluently. Play time with the others students was difficult at first, but marbles was popular back then. I won a lot of marbles from the kids there. I also spent many many hours reading Micky Maus Taschenheften and many other german comics. This helped a lot in learning the language, all written in proper German. The Schlumpf's were very popular interludes between tv programs, nothing like the Smurfs we have today.
I went back often as I have family in Oberwil, Therwil and further. Walking across the border to France to eat raclette while the adults had wine, schnapps, or bier was done often. My grandmother's house is truly home for me, even though I didn't live there nearly as long as I have elsewhere. Sadly, that house is going to be sold soon to pay for her medical care.
She and my grandfather had a glass company called Bauglas AG that the family worked in for decades. My mother was from there, which is how I ended up there too.I love marzipan, toblerone, cheese fondue, fondue Bacchus; and make Linzertorte every month or so. My recipe even was published in a newspaper in Arizona last year. My mother calls me a Heimweh Schweitzer all the time.
Each trip, I visit the Jungfrau Joch, and Pilatus if possible. In Basel, I'm very fond of Barfusser Platz and Marktplatz and have a number of favorite stores I always wander through. Trams are awesome for getting around.
Oh! I love hot roasted chestnuts that they sell on the street corners in the winter, and the ice cream is absolutely the best in the world, and Fasnacht is great fun although I've missed it for years because it always occurs later in the year when I'm not there. Swiss Independence Day is fun, and is celebrated with fireworks like here.
One thing that really amazes me is the corals that Iwan has, something I'd never expect in a place like Switzerland - the land of cheese, veal, chocolate, swiss cows and alps. I'm impressed.
Hello Melev, you homesickness Swiss.
Drop in again, enjoy a cheese fondue and chocolate, climb the mountains and breathe the pure mountain air.
And at the end you come to Lenzburg, go to the castle and fetch a couple of corals from my house reef. And then we go to the Valais, go to the Matterhorn and Zermatt and drink house wine from the vineyards of my father-in-law. This is a sweet piece of lives.
Drop in again, enjoy a cheese fondue and chocolate, climb the mountains and breathe the pure mountain air.
And at the end you come to Lenzburg, go to the castle and fetch a couple of corals from my house reef. And then we go to the Valais, go to the Matterhorn and Zermatt and drink house wine from the vineyards of my father-in-law. This is a sweet piece of lives.
jnarowe
New member
Now you are just plain bragging!! And no mention of girls? Oh wait, you said "father-in-law"! You guys are making me nuts. I am going to whip out my fondue set...hmmmm, chocolate or cheese? Such tough decisions!
Did I tell you about trying to remove a hairy crab from a rock with a fondue fork? Damn crab grabbed the fork and wouldn't let go. My wife freaked out. Her eyes got huge, and she asked, "How large IS that crab?" I ended up giving it a fresh water soak so I could get the fork back. In the end, I won the great hairy crab war of 2005.
Did I tell you about trying to remove a hairy crab from a rock with a fondue fork? Damn crab grabbed the fork and wouldn't let go. My wife freaked out. Her eyes got huge, and she asked, "How large IS that crab?" I ended up giving it a fresh water soak so I could get the fork back. In the end, I won the great hairy crab war of 2005.
Reefflections
New member
Hey guys what happened to the Prodibio thread here?It seems like we really got side tracked here.I'm here to learn more about saying lighting and these additives.Not bashing anyone here.I don't have any idea what you are talking about?Just enjoy reading and what people have done with the Prodibio products.Or maybe and update when it's here in the states.Anymore on that end of it?
TryTheChi
Member
Hi Curt
I just strated my 9th week on Prodi, and despite having had no skimmer for a couple of weeks a while back and now the new skimmer motor is playing up - so its been off for 6 days, my NO3 and PO4 remain at zero. Just took the fluidised rowaphos off line - to see what happens with PO4 without it. I have a couple of BTAs which get fed once a week plus a decent amount of food for the fish - so there is plenty of inputs for the bac to work on.
On the coral front - the colours keep on getting stronger and growth is good - infact my calcium levels have dropped from 420 to 385 in the past week which shows growth is stong.
However one acopora colour has faded - loss of vibrancy on pink tips and maroon branches - no RTN or STN though. Will seem if it pick up before moving it. Any thoughts anyone?
Cheers
SImon
I just strated my 9th week on Prodi, and despite having had no skimmer for a couple of weeks a while back and now the new skimmer motor is playing up - so its been off for 6 days, my NO3 and PO4 remain at zero. Just took the fluidised rowaphos off line - to see what happens with PO4 without it. I have a couple of BTAs which get fed once a week plus a decent amount of food for the fish - so there is plenty of inputs for the bac to work on.
On the coral front - the colours keep on getting stronger and growth is good - infact my calcium levels have dropped from 420 to 385 in the past week which shows growth is stong.
However one acopora colour has faded - loss of vibrancy on pink tips and maroon branches - no RTN or STN though. Will seem if it pick up before moving it. Any thoughts anyone?
Cheers
SImon
Reefflections
New member
Simon
Glad to here that everything is going great.Other than that 1 acro.Are you saying it did this after you moved it.This seems to be a common thing,when moved corals in a different place.
Now what I really like to know is.I don't know if anyone can really answer this.But I was a deep sand bed user at one time.But the system finally ran into a wall,as for "old tank syndrome".Where all your corals,slowly take a decline.But how does Prodibio come into play saying " long term",with the deep sand bed.It took my system to go down hill in about 5 years.For me to get back on track,went with the barebottom.Then started the Zeo system for 6 months.Which if really hard to maintain and control.A very demanding method.But does the Prodibio system prevent this from happening "long term".As for "old tank syndrome".You have to understand,I was a Zeovit user at one time.And would hate to stress out the corals again.So as you can see why I'm a little gun shy,when it comes to something new.Just trying to read and learn as much as possible.Before any radical changes are made again.Not saying that Prodibio isn't a good product.But just trying to find out as much as I can,the long term effects of Prodibio.
Curt
Glad to here that everything is going great.Other than that 1 acro.Are you saying it did this after you moved it.This seems to be a common thing,when moved corals in a different place.
Now what I really like to know is.I don't know if anyone can really answer this.But I was a deep sand bed user at one time.But the system finally ran into a wall,as for "old tank syndrome".Where all your corals,slowly take a decline.But how does Prodibio come into play saying " long term",with the deep sand bed.It took my system to go down hill in about 5 years.For me to get back on track,went with the barebottom.Then started the Zeo system for 6 months.Which if really hard to maintain and control.A very demanding method.But does the Prodibio system prevent this from happening "long term".As for "old tank syndrome".You have to understand,I was a Zeovit user at one time.And would hate to stress out the corals again.So as you can see why I'm a little gun shy,when it comes to something new.Just trying to read and learn as much as possible.Before any radical changes are made again.Not saying that Prodibio isn't a good product.But just trying to find out as much as I can,the long term effects of Prodibio.
Curt
TryTheChi
Member
Hi Curt
Interesting question -personally, I dont like DSBs in the main tank for the reasons you describe - at some point in a closed system the detritus has to overwhelm the bed's ability to cope eventually. I notice Iwan removes the top portion of his periodically - which may extend the life of the DSB?
Whenever I have disembled a sand bed because of a house move - I'v always been surprised by the amount of filth that has accumulated - hense the remote MSB in the sump - easier to take out if the time comes.
I don't know if Prodibio would extend the life of a DSB. Theoretically it could do - based on the principle that fortnightly redosing the range of bac strains and approriate trace elements boosts the DSB's functionality. However its still a closed system and the nutrient sink dangers may well continue to be a possibility, even if over a longer time span.
You are BB now? - What do you miss from a DSB?
Interesting to hear about the Zeo experience. Was the negative effect in relation to the Zbasic 4? or the wider approach?. Did you have Zstart or start2 at the time? It seems to me that these 2 probiotic methods are different in that Zeo uses adsorbers as well as bac - while the Prodi approach is just bac. IMO the Zeo zeolites could strip out NH3 too fast for corals adaptive capacity in thier early phases and therefore suffer. There seems to be so many variables with Zeo thats its hard to attribute a reaction to an action, at least in thier first 2 phases. It seems to be a highly skilled art through observation - which needs good and maybe even personal mentoring by an experienced successful user of the system.
I tried to get the view from experienced zeo users over on that forum as to why the use of the 4 zeolites is a superior approach compared with letting the bacs do the work all the way down the chain - but the question was not answered and described as esoteric by one 'expert'. Another, sensibly said that time would tell. However - I do think this maybe the critical difference, and proposed a comparative trial - but got banned for 'shill'ing (thanks again Jon - now I understand
). That may mean nothing other than thats what he thought or it may mean that Prodi could well be a softer, more natural approach in the start up phases. Obviously this one specific zeo expert could not disput Iwan's achievements. It has been my experience that prodi has not had negative effects ( the one sps could be due to changes in lighting or flow)- costs much less than ZB3 and is easier to administer.Intuitively - a biological solution would seem to be a more natural way to achieve v low NO3 PO4 and therefore easier for corals to adapt to. They have evolved together. ( I have used rowa phos from the start in this tank so there has never been a PO4 problem and therefore no adaptation issues in relation to PO4 levels) For this reason I dont see Prodi as a radical change - less radical than changing GAG after a month. More adding help than subtracting polution artificially. More like taking omega 3 to prevent alzheimers rather than taking pharacuticals to cope with the symptoms ( actually not sure that analogy works - lol - but hope you get the drift of the thought
).However if one has a tank full of rare corals and a bad experience with Zeo - its understandable that one would be risk averse
Is it possible to set up a small test tank and try it out with a couple of test corals?Will be interesting to hear the views of the more established prodi users.
A question for Iwan - over on the other forum you said that you dose the zeo products on the basis of observations of coral appearance rather than the manufacturers dosing recomendations. What are the observations that prompt dosing which specific additives please?
Many thanks
SImon
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RedEyeReef
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Do you have a link for this thread?
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