my house reef (211 g.)
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Fliger
New member
Hey I have a quick question on Biodigest and Bioptim. As I understand it, Bioptim has elements that assist the bacteria present in Biodigest. What exactly is it? There is no info on Bioptim on the Prodibio website, I've only read that Bioptim is the SW version of Biotrace (FW). Or is it just the typical trace elements found in SW?
Also, do you add them one right after the other? Or mix them together? Or on consecutive days?
Thanks!
David
Also, do you add them one right after the other? Or mix them together? Or on consecutive days?
Thanks!
David
robwsup
Premium Member
Iwan's still using it, he has also just added the Night Sun.
I dose my Biodigest/Bioptim at the same time. On problem tanks (Hair/slime/bryopsis) we dose weekly. On regular tanks, we dose every 15 days.
Dosage:
1-200 gallons for one Biodigest ampoule
55 gallons for each Bioptim.
Example:
A 180 gallon aquarium would use 1 Biodigest amp, and 3 Bioptim amps.
A 55 gallon or smaller, just one of each. I use this dosage on my 24 Aquapod.
I dose my Biodigest/Bioptim at the same time. On problem tanks (Hair/slime/bryopsis) we dose weekly. On regular tanks, we dose every 15 days.
Dosage:
1-200 gallons for one Biodigest ampoule
55 gallons for each Bioptim.
Example:
A 180 gallon aquarium would use 1 Biodigest amp, and 3 Bioptim amps.
A 55 gallon or smaller, just one of each. I use this dosage on my 24 Aquapod.
agarza
New member
I'm planning on re-starting (long story) my 90 gallon this May, I already have the tank, stand and most of the equipment, I'm going to go with T5's. It's going to be a mixed reef. The question is: After cycling and when the tank is stable, do you recommend dosing any/all of this products prior to adding any corals or should I wait until the tank requires it due to coral "usage"?
Or is there something to use during cycle not to speed it but to make it better?
Or is there something to use during cycle not to speed it but to make it better?
TryTheChi
Member
Three pages of posts in 3 hours - thats fast
!!
Einstein - no problem sir - its worth drawing out for those to whom these things matter - for my part, do stay actively engaged whether you use or not
Its exciting stuff and I too don't want you to be disappointed with fake hype ( I'v allowed myself to be snake oiled by the MW product range so I'v been there too). That's why the before / after pics with variables described are so important, and the more the merrier IMO.
Back to the thread:
On the issue of a Prodibio specific thread - its up to Iwan as this is a thread about his tank to say if he minds people posting thier own before and after pics here (so far he has welcomed it)- but I feel we maybe a little wide of 'Iwan Method' mark if a thread were just to focus on Prodi.
The use of prodibio is just one constituent component (and quite probably can be substituted for Zeo Basic 4, Polyplab, Fauna Marine and any other probiotic approaches to nutrient control, depending on availability, cost, access to advise and support and whose aspirational tank you feel most inspired byÃ" ’Ã"šÃ‚º ) of the wider approach. Prodi alone wont get the results Iwan has. Yes, its a superb product IME but its is only about 20% (guestimated) of the total approach in reaching the full potential. Prodi is a simple and straightforward to use Ã"šÃ‚¡V with very little in the way of complex variables. Buy - dose - wait - dose - wait - post a pic -wow - dose -buy another frag for the fun of watching it turn arround - its that simple....but to take it further the other components are important.
It might just be worth revisiting page 18, 6 post down to refresh on the overview. Addendums to that summary are:
A) Iwan doses Zeo elements on the basis of observing coral reactions - which is a skill refined over time and with experience, which I'm just beginning to more fully appreciate being a few months down the line. However the start point is now described in ZeoGuide V 1.02.
B) Element supplementation - Nightsun is the product group here. Travis requested some info.
These are:
1. 'Life' Containing Strontium, Calcium and Molybdian
2. 'Ionic' - containing magnesium
3. 'Health' - Jod Bor Kalium plus others
4. 'Color' - containing, zinc, Iron, magnesium etc.
The manufacturer recommends 10mls per 100ltr once per week of each product, for 'normal' run sps tanks. For are mixed soft and hard tank with some NO3 PO4 then they recommend starting at 30% of the above and gradually building up. Daily dosing in a high flow area is recommended with 5 minute intervals between each bottle. Contra indications are darkening or browning of the corals (same as some zeo incidentally)
The reported major milestones for observing significant changes on the Swiss site seem to be 4 and 8 weeks, but did you see that brown coral change in Iwans tank in 2.5 week Ã"šÃ‚¡V wow! So there maybe faster results and a synergistic effect with the Ã"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚Â¥Iwan MethodÃ"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚¦ compared with Ã"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚Â¥normalÃ"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚¦ tanks.
Iwan currently doses @10% of this. Iv started today @ 13% (only because thatÃ"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚¦s 1 ml rather that 0.71 ml per bottle per day)
The products contain both major and minor elements, so I will keep a close eye on the impact on the major elements.
Kalium (major element) is German for potassium, so there is an overlap between this and the zeo K Balance and PIF Ã"šÃ‚¡V again close observation will be needed to see if one or other is redundant. No tests are available to my knowledge.
As for costs - 500mls of each cost $74USD in total, which at the conservative dosing rate will last 1 year 3 months on my tank - If we use Melves as the 280g net benchmark (sorry melve
) it will last 44 weeks giving the all important $1.68 pw week number to add to the previous costings.
It seems to me that the salt mix used will be important in anticipating if more or less of these may be beneficial given the reports elsewhere on RC relating to differences in make up.
Anyway - that's what I know to date and will chip in with photos and observations as time goes on.
A brief summary of the 'Iwan Method':
1) Lighting: Take our pick between MH and T5s Ã"šÃ‚¡V but check out Iwans before after photos, B Mohrs Tank and Dannano RC TOTM May 05 before dismissing T5. With T5 full front to back and side to side is needed plus active cooling of the hood.
2) Good husbandry - all the standard practice including flow;
3) DSB or BB - take your pic. With BB there needs to be enough LR and/ or substrate in a refugium for the denitrification to occur relative to the bio load.; Also factor in buffering with all the acifdification from probiotic ativity.
4) Probiotic nutrient control;
5) Prodibio, Zeo and DT food;
6) Trace element supplementation by zeo and nightsun
Its my feeling that it isnÃ"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚¦t the manufacturers that are significant but what they make and how its used Ã"šÃ‚¡V so one can be substituted for another as long as one knows the contents or enough about the mechanisms to make an adequate substitution . Me - I'm just going to copy Iwan Thanks again Iwan
Cheers
Simon
!!Einstein - no problem sir - its worth drawing out for those to whom these things matter - for my part, do stay actively engaged whether you use or not
Its exciting stuff and I too don't want you to be disappointed with fake hype ( I'v allowed myself to be snake oiled by the MW product range so I'v been there too). That's why the before / after pics with variables described are so important, and the more the merrier IMO.Back to the thread:
On the issue of a Prodibio specific thread - its up to Iwan as this is a thread about his tank to say if he minds people posting thier own before and after pics here (so far he has welcomed it)- but I feel we maybe a little wide of 'Iwan Method' mark if a thread were just to focus on Prodi.
The use of prodibio is just one constituent component (and quite probably can be substituted for Zeo Basic 4, Polyplab, Fauna Marine and any other probiotic approaches to nutrient control, depending on availability, cost, access to advise and support and whose aspirational tank you feel most inspired byÃ" ’Ã"šÃ‚º ) of the wider approach. Prodi alone wont get the results Iwan has. Yes, its a superb product IME but its is only about 20% (guestimated) of the total approach in reaching the full potential. Prodi is a simple and straightforward to use Ã"šÃ‚¡V with very little in the way of complex variables. Buy - dose - wait - dose - wait - post a pic -wow - dose -buy another frag for the fun of watching it turn arround - its that simple....but to take it further the other components are important.
It might just be worth revisiting page 18, 6 post down to refresh on the overview. Addendums to that summary are:
A) Iwan doses Zeo elements on the basis of observing coral reactions - which is a skill refined over time and with experience, which I'm just beginning to more fully appreciate being a few months down the line. However the start point is now described in ZeoGuide V 1.02.
B) Element supplementation - Nightsun is the product group here. Travis requested some info.
These are:
1. 'Life' Containing Strontium, Calcium and Molybdian
2. 'Ionic' - containing magnesium
3. 'Health' - Jod Bor Kalium plus others
4. 'Color' - containing, zinc, Iron, magnesium etc.
The manufacturer recommends 10mls per 100ltr once per week of each product, for 'normal' run sps tanks. For are mixed soft and hard tank with some NO3 PO4 then they recommend starting at 30% of the above and gradually building up. Daily dosing in a high flow area is recommended with 5 minute intervals between each bottle. Contra indications are darkening or browning of the corals (same as some zeo incidentally)
The reported major milestones for observing significant changes on the Swiss site seem to be 4 and 8 weeks, but did you see that brown coral change in Iwans tank in 2.5 week Ã"šÃ‚¡V wow! So there maybe faster results and a synergistic effect with the Ã"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚Â¥Iwan MethodÃ"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚¦ compared with Ã"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚Â¥normalÃ"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚¦ tanks.
Iwan currently doses @10% of this. Iv started today @ 13% (only because thatÃ"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚¦s 1 ml rather that 0.71 ml per bottle per day)
The products contain both major and minor elements, so I will keep a close eye on the impact on the major elements.
Kalium (major element) is German for potassium, so there is an overlap between this and the zeo K Balance and PIF Ã"šÃ‚¡V again close observation will be needed to see if one or other is redundant. No tests are available to my knowledge.
As for costs - 500mls of each cost $74USD in total, which at the conservative dosing rate will last 1 year 3 months on my tank - If we use Melves as the 280g net benchmark (sorry melve
) it will last 44 weeks giving the all important $1.68 pw week number to add to the previous costings.It seems to me that the salt mix used will be important in anticipating if more or less of these may be beneficial given the reports elsewhere on RC relating to differences in make up.
Anyway - that's what I know to date and will chip in with photos and observations as time goes on.
A brief summary of the 'Iwan Method':
1) Lighting: Take our pick between MH and T5s Ã"šÃ‚¡V but check out Iwans before after photos, B Mohrs Tank and Dannano RC TOTM May 05 before dismissing T5. With T5 full front to back and side to side is needed plus active cooling of the hood.
2) Good husbandry - all the standard practice including flow;
3) DSB or BB - take your pic. With BB there needs to be enough LR and/ or substrate in a refugium for the denitrification to occur relative to the bio load.; Also factor in buffering with all the acifdification from probiotic ativity.
4) Probiotic nutrient control;
5) Prodibio, Zeo and DT food;
6) Trace element supplementation by zeo and nightsun
Its my feeling that it isnÃ"šÃ‚¡Ã"šÃ‚¦t the manufacturers that are significant but what they make and how its used Ã"šÃ‚¡V so one can be substituted for another as long as one knows the contents or enough about the mechanisms to make an adequate substitution . Me - I'm just going to copy Iwan
Thanks again IwanCheers
Simon
TryTheChi
Member
Hi Alfronzo
Prodi recommend you cycle by adding 1 digest per 60ltrs when the LR goes in, and they say your good to start stocking slowly in a few stays. (Iv not tried it so I dont know - but your NH3 NO2 PH ALK test results will tell you) Then after 2 weeks resume the standard dosing schedule.
HTH
Simon
Travis
10 and over club
jake2045, thanks for posting the link to the Polyp Labs instructions.
Sunny, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of Prodibio on your tank. You have an amazing looking tank. The dosing recommendations are listed on Rob's site so you can figure from those how much you will need for 3 months.
Simon, thanks for clearing that up about the Nightsun line. It sounds very similar to the ZEO non-basic 4 stuff but much much cheaper.
Ok, so who is going to start importing the Nightsun products for us in the US to play with?
BTW, has anyone else noticed that the Prodibio "kit" doesn't contain the right proportion of each element? If you buy the kit you will run out of some of the elements way before you run out of the others. For example, on a 1000 liter system the 5 amps of BIO Trace will last for 1 week but the 5 amps of Digest will last for 10 weeks. Doesn't make much sense to me to package a "kit" where you will run out of one element right away and other elements will last much longer.
Sunny, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of Prodibio on your tank. You have an amazing looking tank.
The dosing recommendations are listed on Rob's site so you can figure from those how much you will need for 3 months. Simon, thanks for clearing that up about the Nightsun line. It sounds very similar to the ZEO non-basic 4 stuff but much much cheaper.
Ok, so who is going to start importing the Nightsun products for us in the US to play with?
BTW, has anyone else noticed that the Prodibio "kit" doesn't contain the right proportion of each element? If you buy the kit you will run out of some of the elements way before you run out of the others. For example, on a 1000 liter system the 5 amps of BIO Trace will last for 1 week but the 5 amps of Digest will last for 10 weeks. Doesn't make much sense to me to package a "kit" where you will run out of one element right away and other elements will last much longer.
Just another point of view.
I have been dosing prodibio for 6 weeks solid and also noticed that some of my corals started to get faded colours due to the low nutrients.
When I added salifert trace elements my acropora started to get a darker rich colour.
I figure that my tank needed some trace elements which were missing.
I notice the same thing with iwans tank as since he has added some trace elements his corals are getting a much richer colour.
Also recommend you try one product first so that you can see which is working for you, otherwise if you add multiply products how do you know which is working.
I have been dosing prodibio for 6 weeks solid and also noticed that some of my corals started to get faded colours due to the low nutrients.
When I added salifert trace elements my acropora started to get a darker rich colour.
I figure that my tank needed some trace elements which were missing.
I notice the same thing with iwans tank as since he has added some trace elements his corals are getting a much richer colour.
Also recommend you try one product first so that you can see which is working for you, otherwise if you add multiply products how do you know which is working.
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