My Ich Experience
- Thread starter saltyputty
- Start date
gary faulkner
New member
I have found cupramine to be very effective. Just be careful to not overdose. And remove all rock and sand from QT or you will never get the proper concentration of copper.
HTH
HTH
I like cupramine as a treatment.It has a braod effective range and is a bit gentler than other sopper treatments in my opinion. I have also used copper sulfate medications(Sea Cure) with sucess.
There are a number of reports of hypo resistant strains. My experiences with hyposalinity were less than effective. As soon as I raised the salinity back over the 1.021 level the ich returned.I also think a prolonged exposure to hypo may have more negative effects on the fish than even copper.
Alternatively for fish you think may be copper sensitive such as wrasses the tank transfer method can be used.
BTW are you sure it's ich? Velvet(amyloodinium) will not sucumb to hyposalinity since this dinoflagellate lives in variable sg environments. Velvet will perish in copper treatment. Brooklynella which is also quite common will not respond to copper or hyposalinity,neither will flukes. Both will respond to formalin .
I generally give most new fish a prophylactic formalin bath pre qt . Many use a prophylactic fresh water dip some for long periods of up to 30 minutes. I don't favor this since I am concerned about the ability of the fish to deal with all the fluid that will flow into it via difusion;bloat it and unbalance it's internal chemistry.
There are a number of reports of hypo resistant strains. My experiences with hyposalinity were less than effective. As soon as I raised the salinity back over the 1.021 level the ich returned.I also think a prolonged exposure to hypo may have more negative effects on the fish than even copper.
Alternatively for fish you think may be copper sensitive such as wrasses the tank transfer method can be used.
BTW are you sure it's ich? Velvet(amyloodinium) will not sucumb to hyposalinity since this dinoflagellate lives in variable sg environments. Velvet will perish in copper treatment. Brooklynella which is also quite common will not respond to copper or hyposalinity,neither will flukes. Both will respond to formalin .
I generally give most new fish a prophylactic formalin bath pre qt . Many use a prophylactic fresh water dip some for long periods of up to 30 minutes. I don't favor this since I am concerned about the ability of the fish to deal with all the fluid that will flow into it via difusion;bloat it and unbalance it's internal chemistry.
rort
Active member
I have actually already given the tang 2 freshwater dips in trying to fight this parasite. From the pictures that I have shown on another forum they all unanimously stated that is was Ich but tomorrow I will post some pics of the tang in the QT and you guys can tell me! 
I have decided that after I finish the cycle of Ruby Reef "Kick-Ich" (and if it doesnt work) as it is starting to show some effect, then I will try cupramine.
I have decided that after I finish the cycle of Ruby Reef "Kick-Ich" (and if it doesnt work) as it is starting to show some effect, then I will try cupramine.
rort
Active member
Thank you for the help! The QT is just running a AquaClear with just the rings and sponge.
There is a small piece of LR in there and was thinking about just taking it out and keeping it out to get rid of the parasites and then bring it back into my tank. What would be an appropriate time to make that piece of rock safe for my tank again?
There is a small piece of LR in there and was thinking about just taking it out and keeping it out to get rid of the parasites and then bring it back into my tank. What would be an appropriate time to make that piece of rock safe for my tank again?
The encysted parasites will usually hatch and perish within 6 weeks wihout a fish host. However, some cysts have survived for as long as 72 days. The later is not likely but possible. So if you don't need the rock in your tank and can keep it elsewhere without fish,I would do the 72 days.
rort
Active member
question on some future things for the QT
When I am finished with the Cupramine on the Tang (give or take 4 weeks?) I will put him in the DT and then do what the QT? I would like to obviously continue to buy more fish and QT but should I dump the entire tanks water? Clean it out? what would be the next step?
When I am finished with the Cupramine on the Tang (give or take 4 weeks?) I will put him in the DT and then do what the QT? I would like to obviously continue to buy more fish and QT but should I dump the entire tanks water? Clean it out? what would be the next step?
jnc914
Active member
Cupramine is effective, however you still need to test. After I followed the dosage instructions in my 40 galllon breeder QT, the level of copper was .4. However after the first week the copper concentration it was .2. There is nothing but foam filter and a PVC pipe in the tank. i managed to redose to get it to a therapeutic .5 concentration, which seems to have finally killed off the velvet on my Chrysurus Angel. It has taken almost a full month but it seems to be finally gone.
I read somewhere that if no new fish are introduced the ich inbreeds to a point where it burns itself out after about 9 to 10 months. But no new possible sources of ich can be added during that peroid, including sea water, live rock, fish, ect. Anyone else here read this and remember the link?
There was a study of cryptocaryon irritans done in 1995 by Burgess and Mathhews. They kept a cultures and provided a fish for a host to each. . After one infestation the fish was removed and treated and another ich free fish introduced for one infestation and so on.The 35th fish was not infested. The cryptocaryon had expired. this was attributed to cell aging of the parasite. The time frame for the 34 complete life cycles is about 11 months.
Crush Coral
New member
I hate ich. I QTed my hippo tang for 4 weeks. No ich and looked great. Put him in my DT and two days later had spots and has had them for 5 days now. I am feeding well with garlic and hoping that the fish developes immunity to the ich he contacted in my display tank. If he stops eating I will have to tear down the tank to catch her and put back in the QT with cupramine. With the species being a hippo tang I figured my chances were not very good anyway.
A similar situation occured in one of my tanks sevral years ago. Both the Paracanthurus hepatus(Hippo Tang) and (Zebrasomma xanthurum) purple tang survived after several infestations but spotted up a little every week or two . At this point I hae had them both for over 5years and they are doing well. Other fish were lost though.
Apparently, you have ich in your tank. It may expire on it's own after 34 life cycles. It will attack new fish,however. Particularly those prone to it.
The following is from another post of mine and may help you decide a course to follow.
Uh Oh another ich thread.
I think treatment of the fish and the tank is the best option for an ich (cryptocaryon irritans) infestation. The treatment protocols are difficult and many do not choose to do them or are in a circumstance where they can't do them(such as catching a fish in a fully deveoped reef tank). You have to make a choice wether to treat or not treat. The following should give you some information to help with this decision.
Treatment:
There are only 3 proven treatments for ich. Copper,hyposalinity or the tank transfer method. All of them require removing the fish from the display tank and treating in (a) separate tank(s).
I personaly prefer copper treatment or tank transfer since Hyposalinity for a prolonged period is ,in my opinion, quite stressfull and has been ,in my experiece, ineffective.
When ich is in the tank it is very likely all of the fish are affected wether or not they show obvious symptoms since many parasites host in the nostrils, mouth and gills. Fish with lesser infestations that are not visible probably have a degree of immunity perhaps from prior exposure(82% of surviving fish that have had significant exposure develop some immunity). So it is necessary to remove them all and treat them.
It is also necessary to leave the tank fishless for a minimum of 6 weeks( some cysts have survived for 72 days) to be pretty sure that all of the parasites have hatched and perished for lack of a host fish. Otherwise new fish including th one you may treat will likely be attacked.
There is a lot of information available on this protozoan parasite and a google search or a search of the fish and disease forum on RC will help you understand a lot about cryptocaryon irritans and it's treatment.
No Treatment:
Hope and cope strategies are often employed. Some fish can and do survie an infestation, Some don't. In either case the ich will be in the tank for about 11 months unless it is particularly virulent or does not hold true to form with studies on its life cycle. It is believed that a single strain of ich can reproduce a maximum of 34 times (over a period of about 11 months). After which it expires even when a host is available. This is attributed to cell aging in the strain.
During this period new fish are likely to be attacked and the fish in the tank already will have some level of infestation seen or unseen usually every week or two.
Manging water quality with an emphasis on steady temperature and salinity and good nutrition are important to keep the fish healthy and to give them the strength to cope.
There are a number of "reef safe treatments" on the market. In my experience none are effective teatments and some are not effective or reef safe.
Other things aquarists do in an effort to help the situation when treatment is not chosen include: uv sterilization, cleaner shrimp, neon gobies, garlic soaked food,diatom filtration. None of these will cure ich in my opinion but they won't do any harm either and may have some benefit when a decison is made not to treat.
Good Luck
Apparently, you have ich in your tank. It may expire on it's own after 34 life cycles. It will attack new fish,however. Particularly those prone to it.
The following is from another post of mine and may help you decide a course to follow.
Uh Oh another ich thread.
I think treatment of the fish and the tank is the best option for an ich (cryptocaryon irritans) infestation. The treatment protocols are difficult and many do not choose to do them or are in a circumstance where they can't do them(such as catching a fish in a fully deveoped reef tank). You have to make a choice wether to treat or not treat. The following should give you some information to help with this decision.
Treatment:
There are only 3 proven treatments for ich. Copper,hyposalinity or the tank transfer method. All of them require removing the fish from the display tank and treating in (a) separate tank(s).
I personaly prefer copper treatment or tank transfer since Hyposalinity for a prolonged period is ,in my opinion, quite stressfull and has been ,in my experiece, ineffective.
When ich is in the tank it is very likely all of the fish are affected wether or not they show obvious symptoms since many parasites host in the nostrils, mouth and gills. Fish with lesser infestations that are not visible probably have a degree of immunity perhaps from prior exposure(82% of surviving fish that have had significant exposure develop some immunity). So it is necessary to remove them all and treat them.
It is also necessary to leave the tank fishless for a minimum of 6 weeks( some cysts have survived for 72 days) to be pretty sure that all of the parasites have hatched and perished for lack of a host fish. Otherwise new fish including th one you may treat will likely be attacked.
There is a lot of information available on this protozoan parasite and a google search or a search of the fish and disease forum on RC will help you understand a lot about cryptocaryon irritans and it's treatment.
No Treatment:
Hope and cope strategies are often employed. Some fish can and do survie an infestation, Some don't. In either case the ich will be in the tank for about 11 months unless it is particularly virulent or does not hold true to form with studies on its life cycle. It is believed that a single strain of ich can reproduce a maximum of 34 times (over a period of about 11 months). After which it expires even when a host is available. This is attributed to cell aging in the strain.
During this period new fish are likely to be attacked and the fish in the tank already will have some level of infestation seen or unseen usually every week or two.
Manging water quality with an emphasis on steady temperature and salinity and good nutrition are important to keep the fish healthy and to give them the strength to cope.
There are a number of "reef safe treatments" on the market. In my experience none are effective teatments and some are not effective or reef safe.
Other things aquarists do in an effort to help the situation when treatment is not chosen include: uv sterilization, cleaner shrimp, neon gobies, garlic soaked food,diatom filtration. None of these will cure ich in my opinion but they won't do any harm either and may have some benefit when a decison is made not to treat.
Good Luck
Crush Coral
New member
Thanks for the insight. I am going with the no treatment method. The regal tang had previously fought off ich at Death Co so I hope it can do it again. I do not like treating salt tanks because I feel it has too much of a detramental effect on the tank. I was not aware of the cell degradation occuring in a tank and will be looking forward to 11 months from now. I have room for one angel yet so I will have to decide whether to add now or wait. I am getting a good t5 light tommorrow so I will be adding corals but I guess if I quarentine them for 6 weeks I should not be adding any more ich. I like seeing a fish get ich at my lfs and then fighting it off. I think those are great fish to buy.
Later and death to all parasites.
Later and death to all parasites.
Buying that fish that fought off ich may or may not be a good thing. Even though it has shown resistance and some level of immunity it could still be carrying unseen parasites into your system unless it was first quartantined and treated prohylacticaly.
Generally, corals are kept in fishless tanks at the lfs or with a mandarin or six line wrasse for flatworm control. In these cases the odds of picking up a parasitic cyst or two are very low. If you are concerned, you may be able in some cases to remove the rock the coral is on.
Good Luck
Generally, corals are kept in fishless tanks at the lfs or with a mandarin or six line wrasse for flatworm control. In these cases the odds of picking up a parasitic cyst or two are very low. If you are concerned, you may be able in some cases to remove the rock the coral is on.
Good Luck
Similar threads
