My journey using Chloroquine Phosphate begins...
- Thread starter b0bab0ey
- Start date
Chihuahua6
Premium Member
I'm pretty sure I read earlier in this thread that you should treat for flukes first because you shoud not mix chloroquine with the prazi.
Really shouldn't matter. The issue is that the majority of praziquantil, after being ingested, is destroyed in our liver before making it to the heart to be pumped throughout our bodies for therapeutic use. It is called first pass metabolism. Chloroquine in a way speeds up our liver to make this a more efficient process - thereby having more prazi metabolized and lower systemic levels. With fish - we are in general treating in bath formulation and not food preps, therefore it should not be an issue.
If you are treating a puffer - make sure you puff the fish while in the treated bath.
If you are treating a puffer - make sure you puff the fish while in the treated bath.
cabinetman123
Member
I sure hope more people post up there results. This is definetly the most promising ich thread Ive ever read. So much Snake oil out there. For guys with fowlr tanks that would like to someday turn it into a reef this is sooo much better than copper which I heard once its in the tank its there forever. Am I right in saying that?
I went back and read some of the articles I pulled before experimenting with CP and found an interesting one.
Now nearly every article I have does not address ich, almost everything is treatment for ammylodinum.
Anyway. They showed that at 10mg/ml in bath formulation 100% dinospore inactivity at 48 hours. It took 24 hours at a dose of 25mg/ml.
They then tested oral treatment. A dose of 50mg/kg created therapeutic mucus levels that lasted 7 days and were able to demonstrate dinospore inactivity. It took around 30 days for the fish to clear the chloroquine.
At a dose of 200mg/ml. They noticed no adverse effects on necropsy. Possibly showing higher doses may be tolerated.
I found one article that looked at ich, the abstract stated that chloroquine demonstrated activity against ich, but was focused on a green tea extract and stated it was more efficacious. I couldn't find their disclosures and did not bother to buy the article. That was all I had on crypto though.
So for at least velvet, chloroquine was shown to be 100% effective at 48 hrs with one dose in a 10mg/ml bath formulation. The dose could possibly be increased. Oral feeding shows promise. Chloroquine had a very long have life, does not be to be re-dosed in bath formulation, a re-dose at 7 days with oral feeding at 50mg/ml is probably needed.
I found another good study that cleared 100% of clownfish from velvet at 10mg/ml in two weeks.
I will post more shortly
Now nearly every article I have does not address ich, almost everything is treatment for ammylodinum.
Anyway. They showed that at 10mg/ml in bath formulation 100% dinospore inactivity at 48 hours. It took 24 hours at a dose of 25mg/ml.
They then tested oral treatment. A dose of 50mg/kg created therapeutic mucus levels that lasted 7 days and were able to demonstrate dinospore inactivity. It took around 30 days for the fish to clear the chloroquine.
At a dose of 200mg/ml. They noticed no adverse effects on necropsy. Possibly showing higher doses may be tolerated.
I found one article that looked at ich, the abstract stated that chloroquine demonstrated activity against ich, but was focused on a green tea extract and stated it was more efficacious. I couldn't find their disclosures and did not bother to buy the article. That was all I had on crypto though.
So for at least velvet, chloroquine was shown to be 100% effective at 48 hrs with one dose in a 10mg/ml bath formulation. The dose could possibly be increased. Oral feeding shows promise. Chloroquine had a very long have life, does not be to be re-dosed in bath formulation, a re-dose at 7 days with oral feeding at 50mg/ml is probably needed.
I found another good study that cleared 100% of clownfish from velvet at 10mg/ml in two weeks.
I will post more shortly
Chihuahua6
Premium Member
Now I have two seperate groups of fish with ich. Treating them has been exhausting and they die anyway.
Newly purchased fish came down with it in quarantine. Cherub Angel died before showing any signs at all. Yellow Tang died one day into copper treatment. Blue Goby stopped eating, was very stressed after treatment began and died a week later. Midas Blenny jumped onto floor during a tank transfer and died the next morning.
Had three Yellow Pyramid Butterflies in holding tank. They were purchased healthy from a fellow reefer who had them for over a year. They were in a tank filled with live rock from a healthy 8 year old tank. I just wanted to be sure they were healthy before putting in my main display. One month in and they look a little off. One has cloudy eye that I figure is just from injuring it. I put them into my main display thinking they're stressed being in the smaller tank. Under the bright lights I see they all have cloudy eyes and maybe tiny spots? I treat main display with Prazipro. Next day spots seems more apparant. Still doesn't look like typical ich but it is.
How the heck these fish got ich is beyond me! I am disgusted. I want to use chloroquine but I can't find it. I emailed Louis two days ago and haven't heard back. Today I will be tearing apart my main display to treat the three Butterflies and three other fish in the tank. They will all be going into a 30 gallon treatment tank. I will have to purchase something bigger for them to live for the next 12 weeks while my tank remains fallow.
My fear is that after treatment with copper the ich will return or the fish will just die during treatment. Is there anywhere else I can get my hands on chloroquine? I am desperate to save these fish, so much that it's exhausting me.
Newly purchased fish came down with it in quarantine. Cherub Angel died before showing any signs at all. Yellow Tang died one day into copper treatment. Blue Goby stopped eating, was very stressed after treatment began and died a week later. Midas Blenny jumped onto floor during a tank transfer and died the next morning.
Had three Yellow Pyramid Butterflies in holding tank. They were purchased healthy from a fellow reefer who had them for over a year. They were in a tank filled with live rock from a healthy 8 year old tank. I just wanted to be sure they were healthy before putting in my main display. One month in and they look a little off. One has cloudy eye that I figure is just from injuring it. I put them into my main display thinking they're stressed being in the smaller tank. Under the bright lights I see they all have cloudy eyes and maybe tiny spots? I treat main display with Prazipro. Next day spots seems more apparant. Still doesn't look like typical ich but it is.
How the heck these fish got ich is beyond me! I am disgusted. I want to use chloroquine but I can't find it. I emailed Louis two days ago and haven't heard back. Today I will be tearing apart my main display to treat the three Butterflies and three other fish in the tank. They will all be going into a 30 gallon treatment tank. I will have to purchase something bigger for them to live for the next 12 weeks while my tank remains fallow.
My fear is that after treatment with copper the ich will return or the fish will just die during treatment. Is there anywhere else I can get my hands on chloroquine? I am desperate to save these fish, so much that it's exhausting me.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Boy am I glad I found this forum! Recently discovered a couple of fish are showing signs ich. After doing research for a cure I've decided to try CP but I can not find a supplier. I know what you mean, Amanda, about being exhausted trying to save your fish. I'm worried sick about it. It seems this CP is pretty good. I just wish I could find somewhere to get it. Every website I've been referred to seems to have a derivative of CP. Thank you to all who have posted!
Jennifer
Jennifer
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Would it be recommended to still QT the fish is going th oral route?
IMO, CP is an excellent medication to use in QT; it should never replace QT. Besides, CP has no impact on worms and infections. Both of which are often encountered in newly acquired fish. You would need to treat with PraziPro for parasitic flatworms; antibiotics for infections/Fungus.
CP is useful to treat Crypto, Velvet, Brook and Uronema. A wide range of ailments to be sure, but not all inclusive.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
I am battling a new case of ich in the DT. I haven't had to deal with this disease in 7 years so all of this (CP, Quinine) is all new to me. I am trying avoid catching these fish in a reef tank. I do have a QT just about set up. My bigger problem is going to be trying to find the CP locally or have it overnighted. This stuff ranges from $19 to $185. I'm concerned I'm not getting the correct medication. Also I read the review on Dr. Gs Antiparasitic frozen food but I'm a little confused as to the bottom line....is it a thumbs up or down?
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Does have any recommendations of what I can do while I am waiting on obtaining the CP? I was thinking of doing a massive water change, perhaps FW dip or at least a low salinity (1.015 or lower) bath.
That food supposedly contains CP, but even if it managed to eradicate the parasites living on the fish themselves, Ich can survive for 9+ weeks in your rocks, sand, etc. without a host to feed on. So it just seems to me that it would only be a matter of time before Murphy's law kicked in and your fish got reinfected. IMO it's best to treat your fish in a QT by dosing the CP powder directly into the water. There's no possibility of the parasites avoiding contact with the medication that way. Leave your DT fallow for 9+ weeks to starve out whatever Ich was left behind in there.
Just curious, are you planning on treating in QT or in your DT? If in the DT, is this a reef or FOWLR? How many fish do you have?
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cabinetman123
Member
This is quite a statement! Im surprised this thread isnt getting more traffic. People need to post up what happens if they use this stuff. Everything I read about it is good unlike so many other so called ich cures out there. Lets keep this alive.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
I am going to treat them in the QT. They are being moved today. I was thinking of doing a 10 min bath/dip in lower salinity water and methylene blue to knock off some of the cysts. The DT is a reef tank complete with inverts, live rock and a ton of corals. Fish are a Coral Beauty, Sleeper Goby, Bicolor Blenny, Royal Gramma and 2 Oscellaris Clowns. I also have a Solar Fairy Wrasse in a QT. He was purchased 3 weeks ago and apparently that is where he is going to stay. He is not showing any signs of ich even though I used DT water to make up his tank unbeknownst to me that it had ich.
Sorry if this sounds overly negative, but giving them a bath/dip will do nothing to relieve their symptoms. Ich requires long-term treatment; say, 1 solid month unless you were planning to do TT.
All good candidates for CP IME, except for the wrasse. I've lost 2 wrasses during CP treatment. Although it might just be a coincidence. My advice is to treat the wrasse with copper (Cupramine) in a separate QT.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Sold! No dip for them
I was NOT looking forward to doing that. I did read where you lost your wrasses. Do you think I should treat him like he has ick? I am putting the fish in the QT today and I wanted to lower the salinity. Should I make up the QT water to match the DT and eventually lower it? I read on this forum to just drop it suddenly but I'm concerned it could hurt the fish.
I was NOT looking forward to doing that. I did read where you lost your wrasses. Do you think I should treat him like he has ick? I am putting the fish in the QT today and I wanted to lower the salinity. Should I make up the QT water to match the DT and eventually lower it? I read on this forum to just drop it suddenly but I'm concerned it could hurt the fish.If your fish in the DT has Ich and you subsequently used water from the DT for the wrasse, then odds are he now has it too. Ich doesn't just live on the fish; it survives in the sand, rock & water column in various stages of it's life.
Unless you were wanting to drop it all the way down to 1.009 and perform hyposalinity, this will do nothing. Ich doesn't die until the SG reaches 1.009. Also, hypo should be done in lieu of CP - I wouldn't combine treatments.
Hypo is easy enough to do, but it has downsides: There are hypo resistant strains of Ich, and you have to be able to hold the SG at 1.009 for at least one solid month. If it even inches up to 1.010 (say, due to evaporation) then you have to start the clock all over again. It's a PITA if you ask me.
