I have been using CP for the past 4 years, maintaining 40mg/g continuously in my QT system. I have never experienced an ammonia spike or any deleterious effects on biological filtration. I currently have an Achilles that has been in QT with CP at 40mg/g for the past 5 months, doing well, eating and growing.
My journey using Chloroquine Phosphate begins...
- Thread starter b0bab0ey
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Deinonych
New member
While anecdotal only, I have not experienced any significant detriment to the biofilter while treating with CP. I also noticed in that same post the copper is stated to affect not only the theront stage, but also the tomont stage. This is news to me, as I thought all medications targeting cryptocaryon affected the theront stage only.
Also note that the master sticky does advocate the use of CP in some circumstances even while mentioning the literature debate about it. Billsreef has used it thousands of times with good results. This thread is an excellent one which should be continued. At some point, perhaps someone will summarize the thread?
Deinonych
New member
I have observed this as well, particularly when I dosed my DT with CP a few months ago. I suspect it is indeed cyano, but microscopic examination is likely needed to confirm.
Interesting. I had the red fuzz as well - ended up taking over my tank and I eventually broke the tank down. I've studied this organism (and other cyanobacteria) ever since, and even took some photos through my microscope of it. I'll try to post them elsewhere.
My advice is this - get rid of the bright red fuzz (mine started in small clumps) ASAP. I will post more of my experiences and what I've learned since when I have time.
Nick
I also have the red fuzz in a QT tank running CP for years, tried Chemiclean, had no effect, there was also no effect on livestock combining Chemiclean with CP
red fuzz appears to be photosynthetic as it grows with more exposure to light. I have another tank with CP that gets very little light and has a small area of red fuzz only where there is light exposure, it may be a type of red algae that is immune to CP....
Next, when the latest inhabitants are out I'll dose the tank with H202
red fuzz appears to be photosynthetic as it grows with more exposure to light. I have another tank with CP that gets very little light and has a small area of red fuzz only where there is light exposure, it may be a type of red algae that is immune to CP....
Next, when the latest inhabitants are out I'll dose the tank with H202
Deinonych
New member
They can be used together safely. However, my understanding is that praziquantel's effectiveness is reduced when used in conjunction with CP. Best to treat with each med separately to ensure you are maximizing effectiveness.
Hydrogen peroxide is one of the few things I did not try.
If it's the same organism I had it's a type of cyanobacteria that bores into rock (won't just blow off and is difficult to scrape off completely even with a toohbrush). It's photosynthetic, so complete dark-out of a tank for a few days kills it, but ANY light leaking into the tank will be used by some of the cyanobacterial cells to survive. Chemi-clean will not kill it. Tetracycline will, however. Still, I've not ever been able to keep it out of my tanks for long periods. It seems to like Phosphate, but like other cyanobacteria is not dependent on it for growth (light is enough).
Whatever you do, please do not let it get into your DTs. It ended up covering all of my rocks. I've just acid-washed my rocks and made sure they do not leech out any more phosphate. I'm aquascaping now, and will hopefully get my DT back up and running in a couple of months. It's still in my QTs, though, on the glass and Tetracycline did not kill it fully there, so I will probably reintroduce it when I put my fish back in. What I am hoping to do is to "seed" the dry rock with beneficial bacteria (bottled) under full dark-out conditions for a few weeks so that a stable biofilm covers all of the tank surfaces and does not allow the cyano easy access to the rock when a few cells do get in. I'm also hoping to get coralline algae to grow on the rocks in the hope that this will also help prevent a large outbreak of this bright red cyanobacteria.
Another fun type of cyano that grew after I used CP in my DT is a green filamentous type that is also rock-boring, but also grew in very high flow areas (like the output of my Koralias). Under the microscope it looks similar to callothrix. Lovely stuff. Also hard to remove from surfaces. I had single filaments of the stuff growing inches away from each other before I broke the tank down. Fun stuff. This stuff worries me more than the red cyano...
Neither may have anything to do with Chloroquine Phosphate, though it does seem strange that a few folks have had the red fuzzy cyano growing after using CP. Anyway, I hope this helps somebody.
thanks for your post, stubborn stuff! I've also noticed a little bit of the green filamentous type you mentioned...
I'll provide an update after I move the Macropharyngodon choati out of QT and I can dose the tank with H202
I ve dosed cp to few different tanks qt and dt. but every time I dose a lot of my fish get cloudy eyes. did anybody experienced this before?
I bought mine from
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231133909031
I bought mine from
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231133909031
so, whatever that red fluffy stuff is, it is indeed stubborn...
150g QT tank:
3% H202 had no effect, added 1 gallon
Vinegar had no effect, added 2 gallons
Bleach (1g in 150g seawater) killed it entirely, in a 24 hr period, then drained tank, it took the entire gallon of bleach too, as I titrated it, initially had no effect either
now as you know adding bleach to vinegar creates dangerous chlorine gas due to the low ph from acetic acid, so I waited some time before adding bleach and did it very slowly, was still as little nervous
the low ph however probably strengthened the effect of the bleach, making it a more powerful oxidizer
150g QT tank:
3% H202 had no effect, added 1 gallon
Vinegar had no effect, added 2 gallons
Bleach (1g in 150g seawater) killed it entirely, in a 24 hr period, then drained tank, it took the entire gallon of bleach too, as I titrated it, initially had no effect either
now as you know adding bleach to vinegar creates dangerous chlorine gas due to the low ph from acetic acid, so I waited some time before adding bleach and did it very slowly, was still as little nervous
the low ph however probably strengthened the effect of the bleach, making it a more powerful oxidizer
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Yes, bleach seems to kill it. Actually, 1 gallon per 150 gallon is quite dilute. I use at least 10%, usually more, to ensure eradication.
I suppose if you let it sit for 24 hrs with some water movement in the tank (i.e. powerhead) it should contact all surfaces of the tank.
Chlorine bleach is an interesting chemical. Although municipalities have used it for treating water to make it safe for drinking, there are a number of bacteria and other microorganisms such as protozoans that are resistant to chlorine. This is very important, as most aquarists assume that chlorine bleach kills everything. It does not. If the organism we are seeking to eliminate produces spores, it will come back even after treating with bleach.
Erythromycin (I mistakenly typed Tetracycline in my last post) does kill it, even at 10% of the dose recommended for aquarium use. It is relatively safe to use in a display tank, as it has surprisingly little effect on nitrifying bacteria. Still, your tank may have bacteria that are sensitive to E-mycin, so be cautious and be ready for a ammonia spike.
That has been my experience, anyway.
Nick
I suppose if you let it sit for 24 hrs with some water movement in the tank (i.e. powerhead) it should contact all surfaces of the tank.
Chlorine bleach is an interesting chemical. Although municipalities have used it for treating water to make it safe for drinking, there are a number of bacteria and other microorganisms such as protozoans that are resistant to chlorine. This is very important, as most aquarists assume that chlorine bleach kills everything. It does not. If the organism we are seeking to eliminate produces spores, it will come back even after treating with bleach.
Erythromycin (I mistakenly typed Tetracycline in my last post) does kill it, even at 10% of the dose recommended for aquarium use. It is relatively safe to use in a display tank, as it has surprisingly little effect on nitrifying bacteria. Still, your tank may have bacteria that are sensitive to E-mycin, so be cautious and be ready for a ammonia spike.
That has been my experience, anyway.
Nick
Just for continuity purposes, here is snorvich's sticky regarding CP: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388433
Agree 100%. I have QT'd over 100 fish now using CP with a biofilter. Never had an ammonia spike. Not once.
Well, from a "fixing the problem" perspective, copper only can kill the dinospore stage. However there is anecdotal evidence that a non-therapeutic dosage of copper can inhibit, temporarily, the production of the dinospore stage. Which is why some people feel that a non-therapeutic dosage of copper can mask velvet (and possibly ich). I am not advocating for copper, I always advocate for tank transfer for ich as I strongly prefer non-chemical solutions where possible. There was some anecdotal evidence in this thread that the biological filter was impacted, but since the conditions were not clearly stated, that may or may not have been correct.
