My new 600 gallon reef

[clekchau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10536901#post10536901 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Atomikk
With your mockery post, I can easily see that there isn't anything that I or any experienced hobbyist can say to change your (or Goodwin9's) view on fish husbandry.

Goodwin has found short term 'success', and has documented it every step of the way. Those who aspire to do the same setup can only wow themselves into thinking that if someone has 'proven' that they can do it, so can they too. Then when someone questions the ethics behind this setup, this person's point of view is immediately dismissed. This is due to selfish reasoning and denial. That prompts (defensive) rude comments and rebuttals of opinion (with very little personal experience) from those who aspire to build a tank like Goodwin's.

Therefore, since I can't change people's perception on what is wrong with this setup... I can hope that some day when your fish start to kill each other and your tank's parameters are through the roof you remember this thread and advice given. I just hope that you are not the person who lives in denial and keeps buying new fish for those which have died (due to your poor husbandry).

Ignorance is not a good thing in this hobby.

for the third time, he has a 470 gallon tank with 17 tangs going on 3 years, based on your years of in depth hands on experience keeping tangs together, can you tell us when his fish will start to kill each other? perhaps on the 4th year? 5th year? if you review the tank of the months in the previous years there are scores of examples of tangs in the same tank coexisting fine for years. please don't tell me all your criticism is based on seeing your friends tank where a yellow and purple tang didn't get along?

 

[Goodwin9]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10536901#post10536901 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Atomikk
Goodwin has found short term 'success', and has documented it every step of the way. Those who aspire to do the same setup can only wow themselves into thinking that if someone has 'proven' that they can do it, so can they too. Then when someone questions the ethics behind this setup, this person's point of view is immediately dismissed. This is due to selfish reasoning and denial. That prompts (defensive) rude comments and rebuttals of opinion (with very little personal experience) from those who aspire to build a tank like Goodwin's.

Somewhere, either you haven't read all of the posts, or I haven't been able to communicate to you and others following this thread that I don't consider this tank to be a success at this stage. Far from it.

Temperature: 78 degrees F +/- 1.0
Salinity: 1.025
pH: low 8.2 high 8.4
NO2: undetectable
NO3: undetectable
NH3: undetectable
NH4: undetectable
PO4: undetectable
Ca: 440ppm
Alk: 9 â€"œ 10 DKH

Have I obtained these targets..NO

Are all my corals growing like weeds..NO

I don't consider those answers to be an indication that every thing is fine and dandy in my tank. Can you show me where I have posted that it was?

You've pointed out that you feel I have too many fish. Maybe that could be one of the reasons I haven't been able to reach targeted water parameters. Maybe I feed too much? Maybe there is a flaw in design and equipment I use for the filtraton for the tank. Lots of things to look at and take into consideration. I haven't stopped working on this tank and six months is a little period of time to predict success or failure of a tank IMO.

 

[Goodwin9]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10536984#post10536984 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoReefaholic
Thanks but unfortunately it's not your permission I need. The others are the ones that need to consent.

Do you not have current tests and death/stock lists?

Your not only a reef expert, but also a comedian...

I posted several of the parameters from tests taken earlier this week. You can find them on the previous couple of pages.

 

[TandN]

My lord this is completely ridicoulous. The guys has been doing it for some years now you dont like it then say it and leave it be enough is enough hes gonna do what he wants to do anyway. Hes a grown man and has the will to make up his own mind. If he believes his taks will do fine then he's gonna do it his way. Saya your peace and leave. You are ruining a great thread. I wouldn't do it myself either. But he has and he has been successful doing it.

 

[Atomikk]

Look at it this way.. I am done trying to talk to anyone by Chuck.

Chuck, if you want advice, let me know. I will be more than happy in helping you out. BUT, remember that what you want and what you can have are completely different things.

The rest of you, please don't involve me in any of your discussion as I am tired of typing out the same thing over and over. Thank you.

 

[NanoReefaholic]

LoL, I won't give up my day job for stand up then. I read the dates wrong, as in 8th of July 2007 as that is the standard. Ah well.

How about the rest of my questions (ie fish loss) and the independent reference? Have you had other people take readings and what were their findings?

While you've said that you want to learn more I think this is the first time I've seen you say your tank was far from a success with more work needed and that may be where the friction lays. People have idolized your tank and you haven't corrected them by saying that your tank has problems. It shouldn't be idolized yet until things balance themselves out and a proper ecosystem has been attained.

I think you main problem lies with bioload vs system capacity. Start there as it affects your whole tank then work on stocking. If you reduce your bioload start by removing the most aggressive, larger fish as they will have the most impact.

Revisit your equipment and selection (amount of liverock and setup included). Some equipment may have a function but may need tweaking, accessories, or complementary equipment to really shine.

 

[NanoReefaholic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537139#post10537139 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tanya72806
But he has and he has been successful doing it.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537086#post10537086 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Goodwin9
I don't consider this tank to be a success at this stage. Far from it.

That's the point, he hasn't been successful and everyone (well almost) seems to be missing that point simply giving the guy praise.

 

[clekchau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537213#post10537213 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Atomikk
Look at it this way.. I am done trying to talk to anyone by Chuck.

Chuck, if you want advice, let me know. I will be more than happy in helping you out.

if that was the case, why didn't you send a pm?

look at it this way, you were done awhile back when you refused to answer a few simple questions regarding your experience and when this so called "aggression" will kill off goodwin's 3 year old 470. based on your know it all attitude, i'll be waiting for your book to come out regarding the only way to successfully keep a large reef aquarium.

nanoreefaholic, based on what i just posted from bob fenner himself, why would you assume goodwin "should" not try those heavy stocking levels that so many of the hong kong aquarists have been doing successfully for years? what exactly is he doing wrong that those people are doing right?

 

[Goodwin9]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537235#post10537235 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoReefaholic
LoL, I won't give up my day job for stand up then. I read the dates wrong, as in 8th of July 2007 as that is the standard. Ah well.

How about the rest of my questions (ie fish loss) and the independent reference? Have you had other people take readings and what were their findings?

While you've said that you want to learn more I think this is the first time I've seen you say your tank was far from a success with more work needed and that may be where the friction lays. People have idolized your tank and you haven't corrected them by saying that your tank has problems. It shouldn't be idolized yet until things balance themselves out and a proper ecosystem has been attained.

I think you main problem lies with bioload vs system capacity. Start there as it affects your whole tank then work on stocking. If you reduce your bioload start by removing the most aggressive, larger fish as they will have the most impact.

Revisit your equipment and selection (amount of liverock and setup included). Some equipment may have a function but may need tweaking, accessories, or complementary equipment to really shine.

It is apparent that you didn't completely read this thread. On a number of occasions, I have said that my water was not where I would like for it to be. I have also posted that the SPS are not going as well as hoped.

I do have someone check my tests weekly. I have help from a friend from a LFS that stops by once a week and helps with my tanks. He is much more knowledgeable than myself and many times does the testing of the water in the tanks. If something is out of wack, we fix it, whether it's doing water changes, adding supplements, or tweaking the equipment.

If you have completely read this thread, then you should know the variety of tangs I have in this tank. I think that I posted most, if not all of the additions. Possibly you could post your opinion on which tangs you would recommend removing first if it were to come down to that.

 

[NanoReefaholic]

Well to start I suspect that the system setup is different but also the levels in which the stock is kept is also differnet. I haven't been over to pH8.4 in a while but the main reason for my opinion is Chuck's water chemistary. While I haven't corrected him personally as that may very well be what he got I understand his levels to be much, much higher than what he has posted.

This is why I asked him to post independent test results by another reefer. It could be the tester or the test kit but until posted we'll never know. I also wanted a fish stock and moteratly list, which also hasn't been posted.

Although not my taste I didn't say anyone couldn't be successful with this style of tank, just that I don't think Chuck is ready to attempt it yet.

 

[Goodwin9]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537261#post10537261 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoReefaholic
That's the point, he hasn't been successful and everyone (well almost) seems to be missing that point simply giving the guy praise.

Please don't forget that I have more than one tank, I would consider my 470 to be a very successful tank, with the exception of not being able to get the lobster out of the tank.

 

[NanoReefaholic]

I think some recommendations have already been made, why reinvent the wheel?

While I have read you say your sps are doing as well as you had hoped I haven't heard you say that the tank is far from a success until just now.

Out of curiosity who is the friend that helps out? It might be interesting to get their input out in the public.

You seem to be trying to sway the conversation so let me put this plain and simple, are you going to post the answers or not?

 

[NanoReefaholic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537449#post10537449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Goodwin9
Please don't forget that I have more than one tank, I would consider my 470 to be a very successful tank, with the exception of not being able to get the lobster out of the tank.

Ok, now I'm really curious who helps out as either you're deluded or the people I've been talking to are mistaken.

 

[Goodwin9]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537434#post10537434 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoReefaholic
Well to start I suspect that the system setup is different but also the levels in which the stock is kept is also differnet. I haven't been over to pH8.4 in a while but the main reason for my opinion is Chuck's water chemistary. While I haven't corrected him personally as that may very well be what he got I understand his levels to be much, much higher than what he has posted.

This is why I asked him to post independent test results by another reefer. It could be the tester or the test kit but until posted we'll never know. I also wanted a fish stock and moteratly list, which also hasn't been posted.

Please explain your comments. The PH in that tank has never been at 8.4 and I would like to know where you came up with that number?

We use both Hagen and Salifert test kits, and in two tests use Hanna's colormeters.

If your calling me a liar, come out and say so.

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537449#post10537449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Goodwin9
Please don't forget that I have more than one tank, I would consider my 470 to be a very successful tank, with the exception of not being able to get the lobster out of the tank.

Geez...that's one of the funniest posts I have read in quite a long time! :lol: Good one Chuck!

 

[Goodwin9]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537503#post10537503 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoReefaholic
Ok, now I'm really curious who helps out as either you're deluded or the people I've been talking to are mistaken.

Quit playing your games and come out with what you want to say, I am getting tired of your silly and ridiculous statements.

 

[Goodwin9]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537517#post10537517 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Geez...that's one of the funniest posts I have read in quite a long time! :lol: Good one Chuck!

The darn thing shed again...I'll try and post a picture.

 

[NanoReefaholic]

pH8.4 is a Taiwan saltwater forum that also tends to stock like this.

I haven't directly called you a liar as this may be what your test kits are reading. What I have asked is what have other people been reading.

 

[Goodwin9]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10537546#post10537546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoReefaholic
pH8.4 is a Taiwan saltwater forum that also tends to stock like this.

I haven't directly called you a liar as this may be what your test kits are reading. What I have asked is what have other people been reading.

The PH in the big tank has never been that high.
As I posted previously, I have both Hagen and Salifert test kits. On occasions, our results have differed, but that is probably due the interpretations of the results.

With that said please get to the point or drop the subject.

 

[MrSaltLife]

I really enjoy your webcams Goodwin9 I had to upgrade my crapy computer but it was worth it!! Thank GOD for geek squad!!!