My new 600 gallon reef
- Thread starter Goodwin9
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erics3000
Active member
PJ - that is a great video..I had to show the wife...
Nanoreefaholic- You lost m on this one too.
I leave you with this thought, how much area tangs normally consider 'theirs' in the ocean. As for the dogs, it depends on where you live and some places still consider them food.
Nanoreefaholic- You lost m on this one too.
I leave you with this thought, how much area tangs normally consider 'theirs' in the ocean. As for the dogs, it depends on where you live and some places still consider them food.
Atomikk
SPS OG
Goodwin, first and foremost.. what are your PO4 levels and NO2 levels?
Secondly, I have seen first hand a yellow tang bully a purple tang into submission. Since the purple tang didn't have any room to hide or get away, it starved while the wounds got infected. Eventually it died, probably from starvation and infection. So you know, both yellow and purple tangs are Zebrasoma tangs... tangs in the same family!!
Secondly, I have seen first hand a yellow tang bully a purple tang into submission. Since the purple tang didn't have any room to hide or get away, it starved while the wounds got infected. Eventually it died, probably from starvation and infection. So you know, both yellow and purple tangs are Zebrasoma tangs... tangs in the same family!!
Atomikk
SPS OG
Personally, with the amount of fish you have.. I think the nitrate values are high. If you had 20ppm with 3 fish, that wouldn't be so worrisome as it will take longer to get to 40ppm. With the amount of fish, you should constantly have 0 nitrates. You would need to have 2 to 3 times the Live Rock to keep those figures down (or a remote deep sandbed).
NanoReefaholic
New member
The thought was to get people to think of how much room a tang has out in the ocean compared to what we confine them in our tanks. Sometimes it's not just about the resources the fish has, it can be just about shear space. Now compound that with the fact that they can't really get away should someone have a bad day.
Your one tang chasing the others is likely a sign of aggression. Keep an eye on it and be ready to remove it should it injure another fish. Every fish is a bit different and some have quite a unique personality but as they get older you may find space becoming an issue.
As for your levels IMO they are unacceptable as you have coral. You should have 0 or near 0, anything more than your tank is unbalanced and possibly suffering from bio-overload. Start with more frequent water changes and reduced feedings until you get this under control.
What is your current total livestock and how is your coral polyp extension? Some macro shots will tell us how your corals are coping with your tank levels. Also, have you had anyone else test your levels to ensure that your readings are accurate? If something seems off sometimes it can simply be the test kit. Getting someone else to confirm will elevate this question.
Your one tang chasing the others is likely a sign of aggression. Keep an eye on it and be ready to remove it should it injure another fish. Every fish is a bit different and some have quite a unique personality but as they get older you may find space becoming an issue.
As for your levels IMO they are unacceptable as you have coral. You should have 0 or near 0, anything more than your tank is unbalanced and possibly suffering from bio-overload. Start with more frequent water changes and reduced feedings until you get this under control.
What is your current total livestock and how is your coral polyp extension? Some macro shots will tell us how your corals are coping with your tank levels. Also, have you had anyone else test your levels to ensure that your readings are accurate? If something seems off sometimes it can simply be the test kit. Getting someone else to confirm will elevate this question.
cbui2
Premium Member
ok i did some further research on any user name and came up with this.
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=29040
as for the respect to other, how is it possible to spread one thread and simply just throw him into the ground? if you said just thoughts and advice then why the rumor. let say he did do something wrong with his display, it still can be corrected but not create rumors and said not to do. i know i have made some mistakes, but who hasn't, who perfect and even if you follow all the rules of building a reef system, will this ensure it will be right. in order to prove any statements that all those fishes is too much, you must have a team of Drs, full staff of research and development 24hrs daily, over so many years to see any aggression of the same entire fish list. not just read what's on the internet that can be compatible or not. who says one fish cant get along with others? how can you actually prove that the fish will become like cujo? who said that the fish will go crazy? did the team of research and developments at your house told you or maybe its all the Drs there. i still cant believed the discussion on too much fish is still going on and the thread is now taking a complete u turn. all it took was one reply to create such madness?
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=29040
as for the respect to other, how is it possible to spread one thread and simply just throw him into the ground? if you said just thoughts and advice then why the rumor. let say he did do something wrong with his display, it still can be corrected but not create rumors and said not to do. i know i have made some mistakes, but who hasn't, who perfect and even if you follow all the rules of building a reef system, will this ensure it will be right. in order to prove any statements that all those fishes is too much, you must have a team of Drs, full staff of research and development 24hrs daily, over so many years to see any aggression of the same entire fish list. not just read what's on the internet that can be compatible or not. who says one fish cant get along with others? how can you actually prove that the fish will become like cujo? who said that the fish will go crazy? did the team of research and developments at your house told you or maybe its all the Drs there. i still cant believed the discussion on too much fish is still going on and the thread is now taking a complete u turn. all it took was one reply to create such madness?
NanoReefaholic
New member
cbui2 that's why you research the information that the 'experts' in this field have done and further educate yourself on what to look for as well as the corrective action. I don't need to be a PhD to know that if I smack you in the face it's gonna hurt. Past experience would dictate this but I could always wack you just to be sure. Even then I wouldn't need a team of PhD's to run a bunch of tests on you to tell. I could just look at the red mark and the look of pain to tell to be fairly certain.
Same thing applies to reefing, you take a list of symptoms and find possible causes and future complications.
Google works wonders huh. Yep that's the thread in question and it's a good example of how not to begin in this hobby. The thread was probably created because of the amount of new people here going 'wow, awesome, I want a tank like this' within this thread. With such a large membership base sitting by not correcting or providing any guidance it isn't something to condone and as such an example was made so others new to the hobby don't make the same mistake(s).
I fear that we haven't seen the true degree of this tanks health nor its true past. Livestock can be replaced, readings can be 'corrected', and arrogance/egos can run rampant. The key is to move on from the 'what the' to 'how can we fix this'.
Same thing applies to reefing, you take a list of symptoms and find possible causes and future complications.
Google works wonders huh. Yep that's the thread in question and it's a good example of how not to begin in this hobby. The thread was probably created because of the amount of new people here going 'wow, awesome, I want a tank like this' within this thread. With such a large membership base sitting by not correcting or providing any guidance it isn't something to condone and as such an example was made so others new to the hobby don't make the same mistake(s).
I fear that we haven't seen the true degree of this tanks health nor its true past. Livestock can be replaced, readings can be 'corrected', and arrogance/egos can run rampant. The key is to move on from the 'what the' to 'how can we fix this'.
cbui2
Premium Member
My elevated nitrate readings are due to my heavy feedings. No doubt about it. The large amount of protein rich foods I feed are a huge source of nitrogen to the tank. However, A nitrate reading of zero need not be maintained even in a reef aquarium. The relative toxicity of nitrates to livestock is actually a source of debate recently. In fact a nitrate reading of up to 40ppm nitrate ion can actually increase coral growth (both soft and stony), as is I believe the case in my tank. I think the real issue is the effect of nitrates on alkalinity. The release of protons during nitrate formation will decrease alkalinity. I monitor my ph and test for alkalinity and calcium levels regularily. My Calcium reactor compensates for the effect of my elevated nitrate levels. I find heavy skimming and weekly 50 gallon water changes keep my nitrates 10 -20 ppm nitrate ion.
I have a mix of soft, LPS and SPS corals that I've collected over the last several years. Although not as nice as some of your guys corals (I enjoy fish more) they are growing well with good polyp extension. I will try to post some pics tomorrow.
I have a mix of soft, LPS and SPS corals that I've collected over the last several years. Although not as nice as some of your guys corals (I enjoy fish more) they are growing well with good polyp extension. I will try to post some pics tomorrow.
triggerfish1976
New member
Sorry for not elaborating more on my original post as I was in a hurry.
It is difficult to truly gauge the long term effects of keeping multiple tangs in one tank because large tanks have only recently became some what common place in this hobby so their is very little documented accounts of what happens several years down the road when keeping multiple fish of the same genus or species in larger tanks. This hobby also breeds certain levels of arrogance where hobbyists are more than happy to prematurely share their perceived success but rarely share their failures so this adds to the limited knowledge on the subject.
I read countless posts on RC and other various hobby related forums where hobbyists tout short term success with many of the taboo topics like keeping tangs in small tanks, or keeping certain species off fish together that normally do not coexist with each other but because they are able to defy the general consensus for a couple of months they start spouting off that they have finally solved what so many other more experienced hobbyists have been unable to achieve over the course of several years.
I for one have been keeping tangs for 15 years. I have tried keeping small groups of the same genus and even have and am currently attempting to keep small groups of the same species in the same aquarium. When I first started back in 1992 I kept a yellow tang and a regal tang in a 90 gallon fish only tank. I kept both fish for almost 5 years and they stayed with me as I upgraded from the 90 to a 180. Once the larger tank was setup I added 3 more yellow tangs in hopes that they would coexist together and school. I experienced some minor territorial disputes for the first couple of months as the fish established their social order. One of the fish ended up becoming the alpha in the group and the others became the the submissive members. These four fish took a back seat the the overly aggressive Regal Tang which prompted them to form a tight group in order to protect the whole from the Regal. The four yellows co-existed in their social pecking order for about 2 years without any incident but the regal tang eventually was able to harass one of them to the point that it died. Unfortunately it was the alpha fish and the remaining three had to start the social sorting all over again but they were all much larger at this point and the territorial fighting was much more severe and resulted in the death of another yellow tang. I kept the remaining pair of yellows and the regal for an additional 3 years but all three had reached a considerable size by then (keep in mind that yellow tangs do get pretty big when they reach maturity). Around the 5 year mark I decided to take a year off from reefkeeping and tore down the 180 and gave the fish to a fellow hobbyist.
I decided that one of the biggest problems that I had with the previous community tang tank was the size of the tank itself. It didn't provide ample space to allow the fish to escape their counterparts when territorial aggression was present. I along with my friend who i gave the previous fish too decided to do a joint tank and setup a 120"x30"x36" tank and transferred the two yellow and the regal along with a small school of Powder Blue tangs (4 total). The same thing happened with the BT's as I observed with the yellows during the first couple of months but I was also afraid that the regal would immediately start harassing the BT's due the sheer size of the regal (approx. 6 years old - 10") but the added room allowed for the regal to have plenty of swimming space thus it didn't show any aggression for the first 8 months. All the fish got along for the most part and then around 8 months after the initial setup one the BT's became very aggressive and started to attack every tang in the tank including the big regal. It eventually had to be removed. For the next few years each one the BT's would become very territorial with the remaining BT's and then with the other tangs in the tank and each one eventually were removed. Once all of the BT's were gone the Regal took over the tank again but rarely harassed the yellow tangs. We have attempted to put additional Acanthurus tangs in the tang but the Regal has taken over the entire tank for himself and will not allow any additional fish to establish itself in the tank. The regal is now approx. 12" long and the yellows are all 8" long and all are happy and healthy.
About a year ago I setup a 600g tank (96x48x30) and it houses 4 Purple tangs, a sohal and a regal tang. All fish were juvenile/subadults when introduced and very little fighting occurred for the first 6 months besides the initial social organization by the purple tangs that I have experienced each time I have tried to keep a small school of the same species tang. The sohal, which had grown from approx. 4" to 6" in 6 months started to become a typical sohal and really went after my regal. Fortunately for regals they instinctively will wedge themselves into rock caves and crevices in order to escape aggression from other fish. For the next 4 months the sohal desperately tried to kill the Regal but due to the aquascaping and overall swimming space, the regal was able to escape any major damage from the sohal. The sohal's growth somewhat stalled and it has only grown about an 1" in the last 2 months whereas the Regal has caught up and they are now pretty close in size. The aggression as lessened between the two so the Sohal is now trying to kill the Purples. I say kill because it attempts to back them in a corner and use its tail spines to slash the other fish.
This is just a general summary of what I have experienced with my own tanks but I have also seen numerous tanks where people have attempted to keep similar fish in much smaller tanks and it always ends in disaster within 2 years from initial introduction. I have also worked at a local LFS for several months and we get numerous people who come into the store seeking advice on how to keep their multiple tangs from fighting or want to know why their 4 different species of tang are not getting along and killing each other in a 90g tank.
Based on my experiences I disagree with this setup for the following reasons:
1. There are way to many tangs in this tank that are overly territorial by nature. Some of the more aggressive Acanthurus and several Zebrasoma's will eventually need their own spaces and will kill the other's in order to establish their own part of the tank. This is just plain common knowledge when dealing with territorial fish weather it be tangs, clownfish, angels, etc.
2. Goodwin and several others on this thread seem to get lost in the misconception that because there is no real problems right now then there will not be 2 years from now. I only ask you to consider this: Bangaii Cardinals are community fish when they are born in order to achieve protection by numbers and up to the point where they reach sexual maturity. Once they reach this point they will begin to kill each other if they are forced to be in a confined area with one another. So many people get caught up in the fact that they get along so well when they are young so they put 4-5 of these in a tank and then are shocked when one of them proceeds to kill the others just a year after they were introduced. The sudden aggression is created when the sex of each fish is determined. If more than one becomes a male then they will fight and if there is limited space in the tank they fight to the death. This is very similar to what I have seen with tangs. In the closed environment of an aquarium I believe that most of the aggression I have observed within that two year span are the fish changing sexes and not having the room to be able to establish their own sexual harems amongst a group. Multiple males are forced to be in the same territorial boundaries thus the fighting usually ends in death.
3. All of the tangs are fairly small and are not adding much in the way of nutrient importation but it is already exceeding the export capacity of the tank due to the algae problems that have been present. What do you think is going to happen as these fish grow? Some of the species that are present will reach 8" or more in a year or so. The bioload will reach critical mass well before these fish are mature and that is why I said that the tank will crash well before they succumb to territorial fighting. Given the amount of liverock and sand I can see this becoming a major problem within a year. You can pretty much forget about keeping any corals besides some of the more hardy soft corals long term.
I would suggest that you do the following things if you really want to keep this tank up and running for more than a couple of years:
1. Remove all but 1 or 2 of the fish that are going to eventually reach 12". Your tank is long but not wide enough to accommodate more than 2 large tangs.
2. Take an inventory of all of the tangs in the tank and rate from the most aggressive to least aggressive. If you need help with this I am sure there are people on RC that can help. You should be able to lump them in groups based on aggression. I would then remove a few out of each category unless they are the same species. This will cut down on the chances that you will have a complete frenzy as they mature.
3. REAQUASCAPE the rockwork and reduce some of the DSB. The rockwork as it stand now is acting as a waste trap given that it is not allowing enough flow through the entire tank. Detritus is settling in places that you cannot access and is contributing to your algae problem. You should also open up the tank more by forming the rocks into islands thus allowing for more open swimming space which will be needed as these fish get bigger.
Deep sand beds also act as Phosphate traps and it will continue to absorb phosphates until it reaches a boiling point and begins to release it back into the tank making it almost impossible to control nutrient levels.
I know that my suggestions will fall of deaf years to Goodwin and some others on this thread but I am mainly looking to sway new people to the hobby from making the same mistakes that I have made and that are being made with this tank.
It is difficult to truly gauge the long term effects of keeping multiple tangs in one tank because large tanks have only recently became some what common place in this hobby so their is very little documented accounts of what happens several years down the road when keeping multiple fish of the same genus or species in larger tanks. This hobby also breeds certain levels of arrogance where hobbyists are more than happy to prematurely share their perceived success but rarely share their failures so this adds to the limited knowledge on the subject.
I read countless posts on RC and other various hobby related forums where hobbyists tout short term success with many of the taboo topics like keeping tangs in small tanks, or keeping certain species off fish together that normally do not coexist with each other but because they are able to defy the general consensus for a couple of months they start spouting off that they have finally solved what so many other more experienced hobbyists have been unable to achieve over the course of several years.
I for one have been keeping tangs for 15 years. I have tried keeping small groups of the same genus and even have and am currently attempting to keep small groups of the same species in the same aquarium. When I first started back in 1992 I kept a yellow tang and a regal tang in a 90 gallon fish only tank. I kept both fish for almost 5 years and they stayed with me as I upgraded from the 90 to a 180. Once the larger tank was setup I added 3 more yellow tangs in hopes that they would coexist together and school. I experienced some minor territorial disputes for the first couple of months as the fish established their social order. One of the fish ended up becoming the alpha in the group and the others became the the submissive members. These four fish took a back seat the the overly aggressive Regal Tang which prompted them to form a tight group in order to protect the whole from the Regal. The four yellows co-existed in their social pecking order for about 2 years without any incident but the regal tang eventually was able to harass one of them to the point that it died. Unfortunately it was the alpha fish and the remaining three had to start the social sorting all over again but they were all much larger at this point and the territorial fighting was much more severe and resulted in the death of another yellow tang. I kept the remaining pair of yellows and the regal for an additional 3 years but all three had reached a considerable size by then (keep in mind that yellow tangs do get pretty big when they reach maturity). Around the 5 year mark I decided to take a year off from reefkeeping and tore down the 180 and gave the fish to a fellow hobbyist.
I decided that one of the biggest problems that I had with the previous community tang tank was the size of the tank itself. It didn't provide ample space to allow the fish to escape their counterparts when territorial aggression was present. I along with my friend who i gave the previous fish too decided to do a joint tank and setup a 120"x30"x36" tank and transferred the two yellow and the regal along with a small school of Powder Blue tangs (4 total). The same thing happened with the BT's as I observed with the yellows during the first couple of months but I was also afraid that the regal would immediately start harassing the BT's due the sheer size of the regal (approx. 6 years old - 10") but the added room allowed for the regal to have plenty of swimming space thus it didn't show any aggression for the first 8 months. All the fish got along for the most part and then around 8 months after the initial setup one the BT's became very aggressive and started to attack every tang in the tank including the big regal. It eventually had to be removed. For the next few years each one the BT's would become very territorial with the remaining BT's and then with the other tangs in the tank and each one eventually were removed. Once all of the BT's were gone the Regal took over the tank again but rarely harassed the yellow tangs. We have attempted to put additional Acanthurus tangs in the tang but the Regal has taken over the entire tank for himself and will not allow any additional fish to establish itself in the tank. The regal is now approx. 12" long and the yellows are all 8" long and all are happy and healthy.
About a year ago I setup a 600g tank (96x48x30) and it houses 4 Purple tangs, a sohal and a regal tang. All fish were juvenile/subadults when introduced and very little fighting occurred for the first 6 months besides the initial social organization by the purple tangs that I have experienced each time I have tried to keep a small school of the same species tang. The sohal, which had grown from approx. 4" to 6" in 6 months started to become a typical sohal and really went after my regal. Fortunately for regals they instinctively will wedge themselves into rock caves and crevices in order to escape aggression from other fish. For the next 4 months the sohal desperately tried to kill the Regal but due to the aquascaping and overall swimming space, the regal was able to escape any major damage from the sohal. The sohal's growth somewhat stalled and it has only grown about an 1" in the last 2 months whereas the Regal has caught up and they are now pretty close in size. The aggression as lessened between the two so the Sohal is now trying to kill the Purples. I say kill because it attempts to back them in a corner and use its tail spines to slash the other fish.
This is just a general summary of what I have experienced with my own tanks but I have also seen numerous tanks where people have attempted to keep similar fish in much smaller tanks and it always ends in disaster within 2 years from initial introduction. I have also worked at a local LFS for several months and we get numerous people who come into the store seeking advice on how to keep their multiple tangs from fighting or want to know why their 4 different species of tang are not getting along and killing each other in a 90g tank.
Based on my experiences I disagree with this setup for the following reasons:
1. There are way to many tangs in this tank that are overly territorial by nature. Some of the more aggressive Acanthurus and several Zebrasoma's will eventually need their own spaces and will kill the other's in order to establish their own part of the tank. This is just plain common knowledge when dealing with territorial fish weather it be tangs, clownfish, angels, etc.
2. Goodwin and several others on this thread seem to get lost in the misconception that because there is no real problems right now then there will not be 2 years from now. I only ask you to consider this: Bangaii Cardinals are community fish when they are born in order to achieve protection by numbers and up to the point where they reach sexual maturity. Once they reach this point they will begin to kill each other if they are forced to be in a confined area with one another. So many people get caught up in the fact that they get along so well when they are young so they put 4-5 of these in a tank and then are shocked when one of them proceeds to kill the others just a year after they were introduced. The sudden aggression is created when the sex of each fish is determined. If more than one becomes a male then they will fight and if there is limited space in the tank they fight to the death. This is very similar to what I have seen with tangs. In the closed environment of an aquarium I believe that most of the aggression I have observed within that two year span are the fish changing sexes and not having the room to be able to establish their own sexual harems amongst a group. Multiple males are forced to be in the same territorial boundaries thus the fighting usually ends in death.
3. All of the tangs are fairly small and are not adding much in the way of nutrient importation but it is already exceeding the export capacity of the tank due to the algae problems that have been present. What do you think is going to happen as these fish grow? Some of the species that are present will reach 8" or more in a year or so. The bioload will reach critical mass well before these fish are mature and that is why I said that the tank will crash well before they succumb to territorial fighting. Given the amount of liverock and sand I can see this becoming a major problem within a year. You can pretty much forget about keeping any corals besides some of the more hardy soft corals long term.
I would suggest that you do the following things if you really want to keep this tank up and running for more than a couple of years:
1. Remove all but 1 or 2 of the fish that are going to eventually reach 12". Your tank is long but not wide enough to accommodate more than 2 large tangs.
2. Take an inventory of all of the tangs in the tank and rate from the most aggressive to least aggressive. If you need help with this I am sure there are people on RC that can help. You should be able to lump them in groups based on aggression. I would then remove a few out of each category unless they are the same species. This will cut down on the chances that you will have a complete frenzy as they mature.
3. REAQUASCAPE the rockwork and reduce some of the DSB. The rockwork as it stand now is acting as a waste trap given that it is not allowing enough flow through the entire tank. Detritus is settling in places that you cannot access and is contributing to your algae problem. You should also open up the tank more by forming the rocks into islands thus allowing for more open swimming space which will be needed as these fish get bigger.
Deep sand beds also act as Phosphate traps and it will continue to absorb phosphates until it reaches a boiling point and begins to release it back into the tank making it almost impossible to control nutrient levels.
I know that my suggestions will fall of deaf years to Goodwin and some others on this thread but I am mainly looking to sway new people to the hobby from making the same mistakes that I have made and that are being made with this tank.
triggerfish1976
New member
Well said.
I for one take scientific research regarding general husbandry guidelines with a grain of salt because most experiments are generally conducted over a short period of time and in sterile environments that do a poor job of duplicating the typical home aquarium environment. I can also list several experiments that have been conducted by the so-called scientific experts in the hobby where the end results were skewed in order to achieve personal financial gain by promoting a product that is being endorsed by the party funding the grant for the experiment. The information provided on websites like RC can be much more valuable if the person noting the success of the given scenario is able to thoroughly explain why they have been successful as opposed to just throwing everything to the wind and hoping that it works. I have yet to read anything that includes any scientific reasoning as to why the original creator of this thread thinks that he will be able to achieve success with this tank when so many other more accomplished hobbyists have failed at attempting the same scenario other than the "well it's working now" comments. I will be happy to admit error in my opinion if Goodwin can provide this. I guess only time will tell.
triggerfish1976
New member
It has been common knowledge in this hobby that certain genus and species of fish are by nature territorial. It doesn't take a team of PHD's to tell countless hobbyists that have kept Sohal tangs throughout the years that they are overly territorial fish. You obviously have not kept these fish to be able to make an educated contribution to this discussion so why do you refute what so many hobbyists have learned. This doesn't just boil down to this issue being only about someone wasting their "own" money on their hobby. Everyone that gets into this hobby should promote responsible reefkeeping. I agree that we are all probably guilty of not being responsible with our livestock at some point but we need to learn sometime and we can use RC to learn from other hobbyists mistakes and not repeat them.
jnarowe
New member
I am going to chime in here but I am dead tired so this will not be complete by any means.
First and foremost, I want to address Atomikk's comment pasted below:
Just because you have seen this happen, doesn't mean it will EVER happen again. For example, in my system, I had a purple tang and a yellow tang gang up on another yellow tang. The victim holed itself up in a crevace so that it could defend itself, but couldn't come out to eat. It looked worse and worse as the days went by, and any time it poked out, it would be chased back in. I was sure I was going to lose it to starvation. It got very thin and I could not trap it because it wouldn't come out. I had resigned myself to the impending loss, and went down to check the tank one day, and there it was, out about 10" or so looking for food. Within two days it was back in general population like nothing had happened. It fattened back up and is alive and well. SO for nearly a month tis fish was ostrasized, and then let back into the community. I don't know why, but it happened...that doesn't mean it's going to happen to someone else just because they have 2 yellow tangs and one purple tang.
triggerfish1976 makes some good points and in particular #3. This is one of the most important issues in keeping good parameters. We have been sold a load of crap about sandbeds, sand-sifting animals et. al. and I am currently making changes to my system similar to these suggestions.
and Chuck, as for the sand filters not needing any maintainance...that's total BS. If you don't change out the sand, phosphate and nitrate will bond until the sand has reached its capacity, and then you won't be able to control your water parameters. You will end up with a total breakdown IMO. This is indeed an important issue that you should consider, especially in light of your stocking levels, because it will happen faster. Just take a look at all the TBS tanks that crash at about the 2 year mark. Sand is an excellent media but ity must be maintained. Check my thread tomorrow for more on this. I will post sometime after noon.
If my parameters were as high as yours, I would soil my pants...but having wrote that, it is because I want corals to thrive in my system. I view your systems much more as FOWLR tanks, and I think others posting here should do the same. Think of it more as FOWLRs with some experimentation with corals! And lighten up for his sake...you know how we are...we get crazy when we think something is wrong with our tanks. He's going to be freaking out. Be gentle with your students and they will learn something.
First and foremost, I want to address Atomikk's comment pasted below:
Just because you have seen this happen, doesn't mean it will EVER happen again. For example, in my system, I had a purple tang and a yellow tang gang up on another yellow tang. The victim holed itself up in a crevace so that it could defend itself, but couldn't come out to eat. It looked worse and worse as the days went by, and any time it poked out, it would be chased back in. I was sure I was going to lose it to starvation. It got very thin and I could not trap it because it wouldn't come out. I had resigned myself to the impending loss, and went down to check the tank one day, and there it was, out about 10" or so looking for food. Within two days it was back in general population like nothing had happened. It fattened back up and is alive and well. SO for nearly a month tis fish was ostrasized, and then let back into the community. I don't know why, but it happened...that doesn't mean it's going to happen to someone else just because they have 2 yellow tangs and one purple tang.
triggerfish1976 makes some good points and in particular #3. This is one of the most important issues in keeping good parameters. We have been sold a load of crap about sandbeds, sand-sifting animals et. al. and I am currently making changes to my system similar to these suggestions.
and Chuck, as for the sand filters not needing any maintainance...that's total BS. If you don't change out the sand, phosphate and nitrate will bond until the sand has reached its capacity, and then you won't be able to control your water parameters. You will end up with a total breakdown IMO. This is indeed an important issue that you should consider, especially in light of your stocking levels, because it will happen faster. Just take a look at all the TBS tanks that crash at about the 2 year mark. Sand is an excellent media but ity must be maintained. Check my thread tomorrow for more on this. I will post sometime after noon.
If my parameters were as high as yours, I would soil my pants...but having wrote that, it is because I want corals to thrive in my system. I view your systems much more as FOWLR tanks, and I think others posting here should do the same. Think of it more as FOWLRs with some experimentation with corals! And lighten up for his sake...you know how we are...we get crazy when we think something is wrong with our tanks. He's going to be freaking out. Be gentle with your students and they will learn something.
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