My own AEFW (Acro Eating Flatworms) images

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8040407#post8040407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
That will make things easier to determine if this a good treatment or not. If you find FW's during subsequent treatments, that confirms that the original treatments were not 100% effective. The first treatment should kill all adults. Any live FW's that make it to subsequent treatments will be babies that are too small to see anyways.

BTW, the corals you just posted look healthy and colorful. That does confirm that the corals are handling the treatments well!

On the second dip I performed, there were no vivible fw's but I am still dipping for the 6 weeks in case I accidentally transfered any eggs into the QT tank. Also, I havent seen one single red bug since the first kill. I look every night for a while, but no signs of them.:rollface:

 

[Travis]

Stoney, you are correct, the people in those threads were still experimenting with doses so they could have been using too much or too little. And more experimenting is always a good thing so I agree the fluke tabs should not be written off as not working. I was initially concerned after your original post because the corals you posted looked bleached and browned out but your recent pics disproved that. Also, I was concerned that the FW's could still be alive. You mentioned that the FW's still remained dead in the bucket after an additional 4 hours. But did you put fresh aged saltwater in that bucket or did you leave them in the treatment water? I am eager to see what your continued results are with this treatment protocol. Hopefully, it will disprove my assumptions.

Zoom, I did have some tissue recession shortly after all of my treatments but I attribute that to running 1200g of Phosban all at once. I was originally concerned that the FW's could be back. Once I removed the Phosban the recession stopped. Other than that, there has been no signs and I do check periodically. But none of us will ever know for sure if we really erradicated them or not. The FW's are very cryptic. I had them before and knew what to look for but did not know until my tank was majorly infested this last time. They are just so hard to spot. All anyone can do is say that either they have or have not treated. I don't think anyone can say they do not have them because nobody really knows for sure. That is my opinion anyways.

 

[melev]

Awesome. Feel free to continue to contribute to this thread, as combined minds will hopefully find a working solution.

I see the eggcrate in your quarantine tank. Just curious why it is there - traction?

Can you discuss how you are maintaining water quality on a daily and weekly basis? Do you do weekly water changes? If so, how many gallons are you changing? Are you dosing anything like B-Ionic for calcium, alk, levels? Are you running a skimmer, and if so, when? Are you using water from your reef each water change?

The more facts we can get out there, the better it will be for others following in our steps.

 

[Zoom]

Zoom, I did have some tissue recession shortly after all of my treatments but I attribute that to running 1200g of Phosban all at once. I was originally concerned that the FW's could be back. Once I removed the Phosban the recession stopped. Other than that, there has been no signs and I do check periodically. But none of us will ever know for sure if we really erradicated them or not. The FW's are very cryptic. I had them before and knew what to look for but did not know until my tank was majorly infested this last time. They are just so hard to spot. All anyone can do is say that either they have or have not treated. I don't think anyone can say they do not have them because nobody really knows for sure. That is my opinion anyways. [/B]

I don't know Travis I asked you because all the problems i have with my SPS it is something defiantly gone on in my tank i can not figure it out....... i hope i don't have them Do you have any easy way to see if i have them?I try but I can see any thing .

 

[melev]

Steve, pull out the coral in question, put it in a white bowl of tank water so it is submerged, and add a few drops of Lugol's Solution. Stir it in, wait a minute or so, and blow off the coral with a turkey baster. If you see ovals flying off that resemble the pictures on page 1, you're officially part of the crew.

 

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8040786#post8040786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Steve, pull out the coral in question, put it in a white bowl of tank water so it is submerged, and add a few drops of Lugol's Solution. Stir it in, wait a minute or so, and blow off the coral with a turkey baster. If you see ovals flying off that resemble the pictures on page 1, you're officially part of the crew.

Ok Marc i need to get some Lugol's Solution.
Thank you.

 

[melev]

I'm actually using Tropic Marine's Iodine solution, if you happen to have it.

 

[Travis]

Steve, also look for the notorious "bite marks". You will find these mostly on the undersides of corals and also in the branches of corals that have a lot of branches. Almost always, it will be in shaded areas. If you have the bite marks, it is safe to see you have AEFW's.

Otherwise just use what you can find to do a dip as Marc said... reefdip, TMPCC, Lugol's, levamisole, betadine, etc.

 

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8040836#post8040836 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I'm actually using Tropic Marine's Iodine solution, if you happen to have it.

I have some Iodine solution , you think that will work, i just need to be sure .


Travis.
All of my SPS are encrusted on a large LR's so it is almost impassible to get them out but i will try to pull one out and try.

 

[MSHUR]

But none of us will ever know for sure if we really erradicated them or not. The FW's are very cryptic. I had them before and knew what to look for but did not know until my tank was majorly infested this last time. They are just so hard to spot. All anyone can do is say that either they have or have not treated. I don't think anyone can say they do not have them because nobody really knows for sure. That is my opinion anyways.

HI ,Travis
I am 100% agree on this statment very well said it))

mike

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8040888#post8040888 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zoom
I have some Iodine solution , you think that will work, i just need to be sure.

All of my SPS are encrusted on a large LR's so it is almost impassible to get them out but i will try to pull one out and try.

Iodine should be fine. If it is by Kent, you may new to use more.

Lugol's is very dense. Years ago, I put one drop in my 29g, and all was well. I thought 'ah, what the heck, I'll add one more for good measure...' My clownfish suddenly started gasping, and I stood there frozen in horror. It took about 10 minutes for things to settle down, and I really couldn't do anything to fix the disaster I'd created. Fortunately nothing bad happened. I just respect the nature of this particular product, and don't use it liberally.

The water in the bowl doesn't have to change color. A few drops of Lugol's doesn't make the water look any different, but if you have any amphipods or serpent starfish, they should start to really move. That would be the right amount to see if you have any AEFW.

Just pull out an acropora species that is reasonably handy. A. valida is the favorite. If you have a sickly one, I'd focus on that one in particular for this test.

 

[Neptune777]

Well Travis....obviously we are seeing things differently. I am not here to argue tit-for-tat on this issue. So far I see positive points more common than negative. Stoney has very strong proof that this treatment is working......I will conduct my own tests when the tabs arrive. Have you tried this yourself? From what I hear about Lev/Beta/Lugol/etc. none of those would seem to be a good treatment either based on the number of negatve comments about tissue loss, bleaching, death....etc.....

 

[Neptune777]

Well, I have read just about all the AEFW threads on RC and I have made the following conclusions, and I will provide what I consider to be the only way to get rid of them (based on my experiences with other parasites....the protocols are usually the same)

1) There is no in the display treatment. The drugs and chemicals known to kill the FW's are just too strong for the display. Maybe time will give us the gem like Interceptor is for RB's.

2) Reports of certain drugs killing corals is hard to discern. Mainly because we don't know the condition of the colony before treatment. We also don't know exactly what conditions the colonies are kept in with regards to water quality. Also, what concentrations of the chemicals were used, duration of the dips, and temps of the dips. ......etc.

3) Dipping colonies and immediately returning to the display is not going to eradicate these pests.

4) TMPCC/Levam/Betadine/FlukeTabs have all been shown to kill the FW's via dips.

5) From what I have read the FW's only host and eat Acro species.....fortunately.



So here is what I will consider to be the only viable way to eradicate this pest....until something better comes along.

A) MOST IMPORTANT: Quarantine the infected colonies leaving no acros in the display tank for a month, I plan on doing this for 2 months....just to be sure since no one has defined the life cycle properly. Putting the dipped colonies back into the display will be a losing battle.....In my experiences with other parasites you must break the life cycle....keep things clean, dip often, separate the host from the pests and starve out the remaining FW's in the display. If you love the acros then you must Pony-Up for a QT set-up.....do this methodically.....and do it right. Make sure the QT is just as good (with parameters) as the main display....these corals will be stressed from the FW's, and the dips... so optimal water/lighting conditions are a must!

B) Your first treatment is critical in having success. Kill all the live FW's via the first Dip and thoroughly search each colony for eggs to remove BEFORE adding them to the QT tank....this will make your life much easier and provide a successful QT cycle.


B) So far Fluke Tabs at the dosage and treatment duration StoneyMahoney used appear to be the best option. Otherwise TMPCC would be my second choice for the dips.

C) If the colonies do not get too stressed I would dip them at weekly intervals during the whole QT duration.

D) If you do not have AEFW's in your tank and you plan on buying more acros.....PONY-UP for a proper QT system and use prophylactic dips for FW's and RB's.....stop them before they get into your system.....I only wish I did this before I got started with Acros......You got to love this hobby (errrrr....money pit). I just recently purchased all necessary equipment to set up a 30gal cube for a Stoney display ($$$$$$Chaaaa...Chinggg$$$$$) ....this will be my QT tank until I am done buying Acros....


I base this procedure on experiences I had breeding True Chameleons (which in a way are much like Acros....they are colorful, very delicate, and riddled with parasites if wild caught). This system works.......It has been proven over and over....

 

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8040663#post8040663 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Awesome. Feel free to continue to contribute to this thread, as combined minds will hopefully find a working solution.

I see the eggcrate in your quarantine tank. Just curious why it is there - traction?

Can you discuss how you are maintaining water quality on a daily and weekly basis? Do you do weekly water changes? If so, how many gallons are you changing? Are you dosing anything like B-Ionic for calcium, alk, levels? Are you running a skimmer, and if so, when? Are you using water from your reef each water change?

The more facts we can get out there, the better it will be for others following in our steps.

Cool, just wanted to make sure Melev. The eggcrate in the bottom is b/c I had a few corals enrusted on big rocks so I broke them off at the base and glued them on some DIY frag plugs. A few of my others were on frag plugs as well, and the whole valida colony that I fragged were on plugs so I just needed something to keep them all upright. Ill probably put some 4-6" legs on the eggcrate this week for better circulation and lower my light a little closer to the tank.

As far as maintaining water quality, I am topping off with a DIY ATO using RODI water. Every 3 days I dose with seachem calcium, alk, and amino acid supplements to maintain acceptable levels. So far I have been doing a 20% water change weekely using instant ocean and RODI aged 1 day(No water from the display going in b/c I dont want planktonic rb or FW's getting in after all this!!). I have a crappy skimmer in the sump of the wet dry running 24/7 and as I stated earlier I am using an already established wet dry filter for the main bio-filtration. There is minimal algae growth and nothing to scary happening with the parameters. Nitrate, nitrite, and phosphate levels at or close to 0 and slightly rise as the week goes by. Calcium levels at app. 420-450ppm, alk at app. 10dkh, salinity readings at 1.026, PH is 8.3 during the lights on and gradually slides to 8.1 in the middle of the lights out period. Temp is 79 during the lights on and drops to about 77 at night. Lighting period is 12/12. Any other readings I missed ??????????

Heres some very useful info I found while searching:
http://zoology.unh.edu/faculty/litvaitis/K-12Primer/reproductive.htm
http://www.amscopub.com/\images\file\File_145.pdf#search="saltwater flatworms planaria biology"
http://bioweb.uwlax.edu/zoolab/Table_of_Contents/Lab-4b/Planaria_1/planaria_1.htm
And one more thing that could be worth a test...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9469875&dopt=Abstract

 

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8042504#post8042504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
A) MOST IMPORTANT: Quarantine the infected colonies leaving no acros in the display tank for a month, I plan on doing this for 2 months....just to be sure since no one has defined the life cycle properly. [/B]

Yeah. I just read that the eggs of marine fw's can hatch anywhere form 7-21 days from when they were layed. 2 months sounds like a good time frame.

 

[Shooter7]

Hey guys, I'm continuing to tag along with this thread and really appreciate the efforts everyone is putting into trying to find a solution to these creatures, and then posting about it. I have been debating setting up a coral QT ever since I found the FW's on an a. valida frag I had recently acquired (really only found 2 FW's and several eggs on the approx. 1.5 inch frag). That coral was a goner anyway, so I pulled it from the display immediately. I have about 6 other small acro frags in the tank which are spending alot of their energies right now encrusting the rocks they're mounted on. The other corals are looking pretty good and not showing any particular bad signs. I'm wondering if, given the situation of all of them being in the tank a very short time and no others showing problems at the moment, should I subject these small little corals to all this dipping and stress of being moved? If you think I still should, I could easily get all of these guys into a 10 gal. I'm wondering, just how much flow do you use while doing this QT process? Not sure if it needs to be high or low in there? I will most likely set up a coral QT at some point in time for future acquisitions anyway, but I'm just really debating doing all this expense and effort and then possibly just killing my corals treating them for something I can't see any evidence of at the moment. Thanks for any input.

 

[Neptune777]

Shooter7, IMO I would set up a QT anyway if you plan on buying more corals (stoney or not). Since you had an infected colony in the display I personally would pull the others for a QT period.....Just my .02$

 

[Shooter7]

How about my flow question...if I put them all in a 10 gal, would something like a MJ 1200 or something similar be ample enough, or do you go lower flow in the QT? thanks again

 

[Neptune777]

No.... do not lower the flow. And be careful with a 10gal QT as the water parameters might swing in such a low volume. The QT should replicate optimal conditions that Corals require IMO...

Also the MJ1200 should be angled to provide indirect flow....fyi

 

[Neptune777]

Melev....when can we hear a Reefcast on Fw's?