My own AEFW (Acro Eating Flatworms) images

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8042504#post8042504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
Well, I have read just about all the AEFW threads on RC and I have made the following conclusions, and I will provide what I consider to be the only way to get rid of them (based on my experiences with other parasites....the protocols are usually the same)

1) There is no in the display treatment. The drugs and chemicals known to kill the FW's are just too strong for the display. Maybe time will give us the gem like Interceptor is for RB's.

2) Reports of certain drugs killing corals is hard to discern. Mainly because we don't know the condition of the colony before treatment. We also don't know exactly what conditions the colonies are kept in with regards to water quality. Also, what concentrations of the chemicals were used, duration of the dips, and temps of the dips. ......etc.

3) Dipping colonies and immediately returning to the display is not going to eradicate these pests.

4) TMPCC/Levam/Betadine/FlukeTabs have all been shown to kill the FW's via dips.

5) From what I have read the FW's only host and eat Acro species.....fortunately.



So here is what I will consider to be the only viable way to eradicate this pest....until something better comes along.

A) MOST IMPORTANT: Quarantine the infected colonies leaving no acros in the display tank for a month, I plan on doing this for 2 months....just to be sure since no one has defined the life cycle properly. Putting the dipped colonies back into the display will be a losing battle.....In my experiences with other parasites you must break the life cycle....keep things clean, dip often, separate the host from the pests and starve out the remaining FW's in the display. If you love the acros then you must Pony-Up for a QT set-up.....do this methodically.....and do it right. Make sure the QT is just as good (with parameters) as the main display....these corals will be stressed from the FW's, and the dips... so optimal water/lighting conditions are a must!

B) Your first treatment is critical in having success. Kill all the live FW's via the first Dip and thoroughly search each colony for eggs to remove BEFORE adding them to the QT tank....this will make your life much easier and provide a successful QT cycle.


B) So far Fluke Tabs at the dosage and treatment duration StoneyMahoney used appear to be the best option. Otherwise TMPCC would be my second choice for the dips.

C) If the colonies do not get too stressed I would dip them at weekly intervals during the whole QT duration.

D) If you do not have AEFW's in your tank and you plan on buying more acros.....PONY-UP for a proper QT system and use prophylactic dips for FW's and RB's.....stop them before they get into your system.....I only wish I did this before I got started with Acros......You got to love this hobby (errrrr....money pit). I just recently purchased all necessary equipment to set up a 30gal cube for a Stoney display ($$$$$$Chaaaa...Chinggg$$$$$) ....this will be my QT tank until I am done buying Acros....


I base this procedure on experiences I had breeding True Chameleons (which in a way are much like Acros....they are colorful, very delicate, and riddled with parasites if wild caught). This system works.......It has been proven over and over....
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Good observations, but the big problem with all of these treatments and effectively finding an in tank treatment is that we do not know the LD-50 of any of these compounds. The LD-5 is the lethal dose that 50% of the corals treated would die. LD-50's are commonly determined in pharmacological laboratory experiments. This dictates doses. The "condition of the colony before treatment" may be totally irrelavent.
 
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I agree Servo....I was just stating that if a coral is already weak then it's chances of survival from a dip are less than a healthy colony. At this point an "in the tank" treatment is a lost cause......I am taking the QT road myself.
 
I can tell you that I have tortured some frags that were already so far gone that it's not even funny in my treatment. Like the Valida frag I posted with no flesh, I never even expected it to live(nor did I know they could survive w/o flesh and only polyps) but I was dipping the rest so I figured why not.. I dipped that thing 2 x, spayed it with the jet from an md5 and it is doing awesome.....who knew!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8043512#post8043512 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
Melev....when can we hear a Reefcast on Fw's? :)
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Odds are it will be coming up. ;) The next two shows are about MACNA and skimmers, and then there should be a show from MACNA itself.

In the meantime, I started a page about AEFW on my site to help organize my thoughts and to document what others are experiencing. It can be found via my Personal Log or Hidden Treasure.
 
Great show by the way....I love to listen to it while I am working.

Wish I could attend MACNA... :(

My QT session starts this weekend. I will post some pictures of what I have going on......
 
I agree with the 2 month "acro free" period. That is what we are employing.

As for fluke tabs, Frank from Trop Oasis spoke at our reef club meeting a couple of weeks ago and mentioned having great success using the tabs in a QT setup to eradicate the AEFWs and also to prevent new ones from making their way back into his tanks. But I could not make that meeting and don't honestly know what dosages (or which fluke tabs he used, if there are more than one brand out there).

I wil try to take a picture of our QT set up, with the remora HOB skimmer, 250W MH and 2 MJ 900s on a Chauvet for wavemaking (using indirect flow) on a 2' square tank.
 
Please do, Tom. That would be valuable, I'm sure. Can you find out what product and dosage was used as well?
 
Marc, I had sent a PM to Frank the week following his lecture, for brands, dosages, treatment protocols, etc, but had not yet received a response. I had been so busy at work that I have not yet had the chance to follow up with him. I did just send him another query in the form of a PM so we will see if I can get his attention and the favor of a response :). I know that he is quite busy these days, but hopefully we will get lucky. I just wish I could have made it to his lecture, but it was just not in the cards :(
 
Just updating that all corals were looking great this morning, full PE so I fed them some dts oyster eggs. I also bought a ton more fluke tabs yesterday so ill be doing experiments tommorrow and this weekend. Ill see how long they can actually hold up in this stuff. Also, the reason I think the fluke tabs could be a better dip than the betadine is b/c it's primarily two insectisides working together, and betadine is an antibacterial agent used to fight topical infection. The fw's are not a bacterial infection so your pretty much just nuking everything and hoping the FW's die off before the coral and zooxenthella do.

Also, it says right on the fluke tab box that it will not kill algae(zooxenthella in corals), plants or fish so thats probably why it doesn't nuke the color out of the corals. It does say "don't use in a reef tank" b/c it can kill invertabrates and effect nitrification. Depnding on how many invertabrates it kills, what types, and how much it effects nitrification you could possibly work out an in-tank treatment with this product in the future. I was thinking something like unhook filtration, add tabs to your display and wait the 20min. Then do a 50% water change, run carbon and do subsequent water changes in days to come. If you had good water to do the change, it could work out. Plenty of testing and experiments to come but I think one day well find an in tank treatment. Interceptor kills lots too but people still use it and there pods come back....It's all a mater of "how much" does it kill.......
 
HMMM..Stoney...I am not sure ,who would take a chance to nuke A diplay tank with fluk tbs:))..I wouldnt..:)
We all have delicate fish in our tanks ,corals and other valuables animals..I would do it in separate tank:)

but we are looking forward to ur reports..Good luck and thankx..


mike
 
I would :), I can't imagine having to pull all the acros out of someone like snipersps's tank or Iwans or one of those monsters. I think it would be alot easier to pull a few fish and quarentine them for a week or two till you get your water back to normal, and let your biological filtration recover. Again, I think tons of testing should be done first(at this point, no I wouldnt nuke my tank either, thats why im using a QT:) ) but I would like to set up a series of 20 gal tanks, each housing the same species of corals, same conditions, and do some tests with different products. The problem is that there isnt a whole lot of people out there w/ saltwater labs set up so someones gonna have to bite the bullet and perform some controlled test over a peroid of time. Ill do what I can but I have confidence that the reefing community can figure it out. Lotsa smart people in here! :)
 
Someone bit the bullet on Interceptor at some point......I think Stoney has the right approach........ Pretty safe assumtion that inverts will be nuked though if an in tank treatment was performed....same as Interceptor. The drug was designed as a fish treatment....we just need to know their LD-50 if we increase the dosage 4x.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8048782#post8048782 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
Marc, I had sent a PM to Frank the week following his lecture, for brands, dosages, treatment protocols, etc, but had not yet received a response. I had been so busy at work that I have not yet had the chance to follow up with him. I did just send him another query in the form of a PM so we will see if I can get his attention and the favor of a response :). I know that he is quite busy these days, but hopefully we will get lucky. I just wish I could have made it to his lecture, but it was just not in the cards :(
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I think he is waiting to release more info at MACNA. He is going to be there. Well, that was what I was told.
 
Shouldn't the first step be to try this in a Q tank to see how the acros handle the longer term exposure and whether carbon and water changes are enough to nullify the effects from the fluke tabs? Remember a 50% water change is only going to get us to 2x the suggested dose. Maybe carbon works exceptionally well at stripping it out as well. My guess is the manufacturer probably knows very well what works to remove it from the system.

Just thought I should mention that it needs to be tested this way before anyone tries a full tank out. Might also be a good idea to put a few pieces of live rock in the Q tank during the test to see what dies and essentially mimick the main display on a smaller scale.

Just an FYI I've also found these eating a purple on purple monti cap I believe. The I believe part is with respect to the type of coral, it was a very small frag but there's no doubt about the FW's eating it. There was a nice egg clutch on it as well.


Kevin W.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8050243#post8050243 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Stoney Mahony
Again, I think tons of testing should be done first(at this point, no I wouldnt nuke my tank either, thats why im using a QT:) ) but I would like to set up a series of 20 gal tanks, each housing the same species of corals, same conditions, and do some tests with different products. The problem is that there isnt a whole lot of people out there w/ saltwater labs set up so someones gonna have to bite the bullet and perform some controlled test over a peroid of time. Ill do what I can but I have confidence that the reefing community can figure it out. Lotsa smart people in here! :)
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Thats what I was saying here tutmos :rollface:
 
Done. Good sticky. You might ask a moderator to delete all the chatter and keep that thread images only. Perhaps provide a link to a few helpful threads so the reader knows where to find more information for each pest.
 
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