My own AEFW (Acro Eating Flatworms) images

[Travis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8169337#post8169337 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
I could not find detailed information concerning what doses were used (other than the one on the bottle), and how a failure was determined (i.e. didn’t kill the AEFW’s, or the treatment killed the corals).

You might want to read through those threads that you posted a while back. All of the answers to your questions are in those threads, and other threads that you didn't post.

I believed him and tried the exact same method he used and guess what? I had the same results he did. My AEFW’s were dead and remained that way (they actually curled up nose to tail so to speak).

Sweet! Any pictures of the FW's on the corals, the eggs you found, and/or the dead and curled up FW's?

 

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8169207#post8169207 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
My bad, I didn't realize this thread was only for discussing the positives of the fluke treatment and not the possible negatives.

Your too funny. Quote me"I am glad that he is reporting his findings so that we can come to a conclusion if this works for everyone and what the best treatment dose and times are" When is enough enough Travis?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8169207#post8169207 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis

And no I wasn't against this treatment before seeing any results. I have been following these treatments for over 2 years, which is before anyone in the US was even reporting on them. Over that time, I saw many try the fluke tabs and heard a lot of negatives and very few positives. What I was against was you coming into this thread pretending you were the great one that did all of the research and came up with this treatment, when people had been doing it for over a year already.

I have not been following these for 2 years. I havent even been following them for 2 months. Heck, I havent even been on RC for a year. I came up with this treatment on my own whether you want to accept that or not through massive research on planarian pestacides. Did I announce my presence when I entered the thread as the grandmaster AEFW cure-all pimp daddy reefer? I believe my exact words were"Now, don't put this in stone, this is one mans tests and results". Do I really threaten you that much that you have to make these acusations? Why don't you tell me who did all the research? You? Please link the thread b/c I must have missed it. After you mentioned people have tried this before and all had bad results I did a RC search on Fluke tabs. No tests are posted, no results, no pics, very few mentions...I think you even argued the other way around with Neptune about this earlier in this thread telling us that everyones posted bad experiences. If people have been doing them for over a year then why are you arguing with me, it must work? Where are there results? And.... I even asked Mel if he wanted me to continue on this thread or start my own and he said continue. You seem to think your quite the expert on the subject but for being so you have a very closed mind. Please get off my back if your not going to contribute anything relevent.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8169207#post8169207 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis

You looked at your FW under a microscope... That still doesn't verify much. Someone needs to remove the FW's from a dip container right after the dip period and reintroduce them to non-medicated water and give them some time to recover. Then observe them to see if they are dead or alive.

I stand corrected as I didn't remember you using the microscope. However, I still don't think it is "scientific" say they are dead just because they are laying motionless in treatment water.

I have done alot of research/lab studies which involve and center around micro-organisms...many of which were planarians. They are not the magical organism you make them out to be. It was clear that the FW's were dead and nothing will convince you of that. I have not seen a single FW since the first treatment or I would do as you say and try to revive them in tank water. When looking on a microscopic level, it is clear to see if the FW is alive or not, you can see the organs move! Have you ever seen one through a scope???

 

[poknsnok]

I have used TMPCC as dips for incoming and a monti nudi problem I had a couple months ago. It has worked very well for me with minimal stress on my frags. i did lose one out of about 30 dipped a 2x dosage for 15 minutes. if I ever get the dreaded worms I will use that first because of the experience I have with it. If after that I need to try something diferent I will consider the fluke tabs because they seem to be effective and less stressful the the levisamole. Ive read several posts where the levisamole can be very rough on the corals treated.

overall, use what your comfy using and respect what works for others. there is no need to be defensive, closeminded and believe only your way is right and everyone else is wrong. kind of a reefer facism is what that is

 

[Stoney Mahony]

Double

 

[spazz]

i think everyone here need to relax a lot! your almost getting to the point of violating the r/c rules of posting. so calm down and lets get back on the main subject. killing flat worms.

 

[Neptune777]

Stoney...... YOUR method is the shizzznizzle in my book

I am done talking with Travis on this subject......his posts are just too frustrating to read.....sounds too much like sour grapes.


Anyone else tried the Fluke Tabs and care to report? I did not take pictures during my treatment so I cannot back up my claims..... I have no credibility and I am a liar....

 

[poknsnok]

Melev, whats the status of your battle??

 

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8168487#post8168487 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beapeams
Make sure that your flow is less than I believe 110(might be 106gph) gph from the mj1200 to the UV. if it is faster than this there is no gurantee that it will kill parasites. Most of what I have read, and my Turbotwist 6x states a flow rate of less than 110gph to get parasites.

Thanks for the info, where did you read/hear that at ?. Aqua states :

15W UV Sterilizer Max Flow: 1800 gph as clarifier, 700 gph as sterilizer

The MJ1200, at top speed, is only about 295 GPH. Since I am pumping to a head height of about 3.5', and we know MJs are not about pressure rating, I know that the flow will be significantly less. Even taking the statements about flow from Aqua into account, our flow will likely be within the 100 GPH range you recommended.

Then again I could be totally off base and could be "poisoning" the QT tank with the AEFW pests from the main tank, but at these flow rates I doubt it. (at least I hope not )

Thanks for sharing the information.

 

[DJ88©]

:wavehand:

hi guys... let's not set this up for a review of posts by a mod or staff. If it comes to that someone very well may earn a time out. If you can't behave as adults we will step in. Next time someone has to drop by this thread specific warnings will be given out and depending on the situation.... you can guess the rest.

lets keep it friendly.

[flamealert]

 

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8169532#post8169532 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
Stoney...... YOUR method is the shizzznizzle in my book

*sigh*, I am not going to throw stones at Stoney, out of all of the posts about using Fluke Tabs on AEFWs his are definitely the most detailed. But to say that it is "HIS" method is just irresponsbile and insulting to the general populace here. We, personally, have been involved with battling these pests for over a year now and have communicated and collaborated with just about every "expert" and have experimented and tried darn near every "method" out there. Fluke tabs were tried by others at least 12 months ago, so how could they have been "Stoney's method" ? Again, definite kudos to him for the detailed chronicling of his testing efforts. Admittedly based on his data we went out ourselves and bought some fluke tabs to try them out as one of our QT dips, but let's be a bit more responsible about laying, or assigning, credit for such treatments.

 

[Travis]

spazz, I've heard a lot of the TCMAS people have had good results with the fluke tabs. Could you summarize some of the findings for us? Such as what dosages and dip times they have been using. Also, have they found the FW's to be dead after the treatment or still alive? Has anyone had them come back after using the fluke tabs? Have they had coral losses due to the treatments? etc.... Thanks

 

[Neptune777]

Stoney outlined the dosage "He" used and documented "His" results.....Did anyone else document and outline results like he did?.....IMO it's his method!

Sorry if I insulted you Sparkss....I must have hit a nerve....did you outline a treatment using Fluke Tabs that I didn't give due credit? You guys are incredible.....too much emphasis on who said what and when.. I was just giving Stoney an "atta boy" for his efforts. I think throwing words like "irresponsible" and "insulting" at me for complimenting him on his method is rather "irresponsible" and "insulting".

When it's all said and done is he going to get the Nobel Prize for outlining a method for killing flatworms in home reef tanks....... relax guys.....

 

[melev]

Since this is my thread, and I value the variety of input provided here on RC, please keep it friendly.

I apologize for not being able to share my results yet, but I've just been too busy lately to actually treat my corals. I watch them daily, and overall nothing disastrous has occured. I grew panicky about 9 days ago (IIRC), but only had time to do a 25 minute Betadine dip. One of my tricolor frags looks 95% dead to me. Another one looks great, with good color. The Tyree frag looks rediculous, like it was out in the Mojave desert during a brutally hot day. The coral is brown all over, but still extends polyps and isn't dead.

Posting pictures at this point isn't really of any value.

I gotta say I'm sorry to see a moderator had to step in this thread and ask for a cease fire.

 

[SERVO]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8170779#post8170779 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Since this is my thread, and I value the variety of input provided here on RC, please keep it friendly.

I apologize for not being able to share my results yet, but I've just been too busy lately to actually treat my corals. I watch them daily, and overall nothing disastrous has occured. I grew panicky about 9 days ago (IIRC), but only had time to do a 25 minute Betadine dip. One of my tricolor frags looks 95% dead to me. Another one looks great, with good color. The Tyree frag looks rediculous, like it was out in the Mojave desert during a brutally hot day. The coral is brown all over, but still extends polyps and isn't dead.

Posting pictures at this point isn't really of any value.

I gotta say I'm sorry to see a moderator had to step in this thread and ask for a cease fire.

With the plague proportions of these damn things, we have become desperate to look for a cure or appropriate treatment. When all of the tools in the tool box do not fix the problem we need to find another way to look at the problem and approach a solution. The people that are passionate about these things are people that have contributed very important anecdotal findings and have assisted many hobbyists. Many of us realize that with the lack of solid findings or findings that are not easily reproduced across the board that a more scientific approach to the cure. Anything else is at this point in time irresponsible. One can not know all or have the experience to know all, but there is no need to reinvent the wheel when it has been invented about 10X over and over and over.

 

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8170116#post8170116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
When it's all said and done is he going to get the Nobel Prize for outlining a method for killing flatworms in home reef tanks

I along with many others are waiting to see an in-tank treatment materialize. Are you suggesting that you have used this method as such a treatment, and successfully ?

And to answer your question "is he going to get the Nobel Prize", no more so than the person who documented the LRB treatment protocols , that is if this is even widely adopted as the accepted method for remediating AEFWs as part of a QT protocol.

Bear in mind that many in this thread have been battling, testing and sacrificing for months upon months in attempts to erradicate these pests. Don't discount their contributions. Since you are "new" to this "fight" with the AEFWs, maybe you could be a little more respectful to those that have experienced significant losses in the process of trying to find a common, reliable, repeatable, cure (which one still does not exist). Many "cures" that have been previously dismissed as too harsh on the corals were a result of someone sacrificing their corals to the test, often with lethal results (to the corals). So far no cure, even the Fluke Tabs, has been 100% across the board successful against all AEFWs. This is something that the "old timers" in this battle have come to know about these pests and one that we sincerely hope will change with time. But when we hear of an "old" cure being re-hashed with mixed, "new" results we get overly skeptical. There are dozens of pages from multiple AEFW threads that need to be taken into account that the most of us have read in their entirety (and likely contribtued to). All of those need to be considered before rebutting anyone's comments.

The more time spent re-hasing old treatments or arguing over the results, the less time can be spent on finding that silver bullet.

 

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8171015#post8171015 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SERVO
With the plague proportions of these damn things, we have become desperate to look for a cure or appropriate treatment. When all of the tools in the tool box do not fix the problem we need to find another way to look at the problem and approach a solution. The people that are passionate about these things are people that have contributed very important anecdotal findings and have assisted many hobbyists. Many of us realize that with the lack of solid findings or findings that are not easily reproduced across the board that a more scientific approach to the cure. Anything else is at this point in time irresponsible. One can not know all or have the experience to know all, but there is no need to reinvent the wheel when it has been invented about 10X over and over and over.

Well said SERVO.

Also, with desparation comes heightened tensions. Those that have not yet reached that level need to be conscious that 1. It is possibly just around the corner for them and 2. Many others have already reached that point

We pretty much already lost all of our acros, very few remain, so honestly our tension levels are getting lower with each passing day. But we still respectfully acknowledge those that are still in the throes of battle trying to save their beloved acros, or still possibly grieving over their losses.

 

[spazz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8170097#post8170097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
spazz, I've heard a lot of the TCMAS people have had good results with the fluke tabs. Could you summarize some of the findings for us? Such as what dosages and dip times they have been using. Also, have they found the FW's to be dead after the treatment or still alive? Has anyone had them come back after using the fluke tabs? Have they had coral losses due to the treatments? etc.... Thanks

sorry guy i dont know who is using the fluk tabs other than reefstitter. he did some experments using fluke tabs last year. he told me the dose doesent matter. i dont know for sure but he was butting some pretty heavy dosages in his Q tank. i will try to get some more info from him but i do know he is really busy right now.

 

[Travis]

spazz, my bad... I thought I had heard there were a few people up there using the fluke tabs. But my memory is not the best these days.:lol:

 

[Neptune777]

Nope....I have not used 'em as an "in-tank/display" treatment. I did use them as a dip per the directions Stoney gave and I had dead-as-door-nails AEFW's. My population of Acros is not very high and the concentrations of the AEFW's is very low. Upon visual inspection I found 1 egg mass at the base of a small milli colony during the dips (which I removed manually). And only a few dead specimens in the dip container. My frags are small and a thorough visual inspection on each one did not show any live cling-ons. I feel from my hands-on experience that the A.P. Fluke Tabs are a great treatment for this issue.


Travis/ClkWrk/Sparkss please educate me on where the posts are in the past that absolutely dismissed the A.P. Fluke Tabs as a viable QT treatment. Some links would be helpful as I am not able to find a detailed account of someone using them and failing. I would like to know what dosages, dip times etc. were used so I can access how they failed and why Stoney/Myself /and others have had good success. Did they even use the same product....as I know there are several out there....There is even a liquid version of the A.P F.T.'s but who knows at what concentration it is...

 

[blstravler]

Over the past 18 monthes it seems that a lot of people are getting both AEFW and Red Bugs. At the same time we are seeing a lot more farmed corals coming into the hobby. By farmed corals (I think the term is aquacultured or maricultured) I mean corals that are grown in small lagoons or shallows in the ocean from frags, alot of them are grown on small discs or caps.

My question is becasue these corals are being grown in a location other then a true reef where the natural predators for AEFW or Red Bugs may not exsist do you think the areas these corals are grown in are becoming a breeding ground or more open to have AEFW or Red Bugs?

Just a thought, that's all.