my rice experiment

[kkil4life]

I too am intrigued by your experiment with rice and the positive results so far and am willing to give it a try. I am currently running 1000ml of BP and GFO for months and I just seem not able to get rid of the GHA. Both my P&N are zero or non-detectable per Hanna Checker and Salifert test, respectively. I am about to replace the GFO anyway and will replace it with about 1/4 cup of long grain rice to see how it works. I will continue to run my BP since I have paid almost $100 for it. I will report my result whenever I can.

BTW, I soaked about 1 cup (~100g) of long grain white rice (without washing) in a gal of RODI water for about 2 hours did a PO4 test with my Hanna PO4 Checker. It read 1.32ppm! I had tested the RODI before adding the rice and it was 0.00ppm. I guess there is quite a bit of PO4 attached to the rice so it is pertinent to wash the rice real good before using or you are adding a lot of phosphate to your system.

it is very important to wash properly before you put the rice into the tank. the ask/coating of rice does have a lot of impurities in it and this is why it should be washed throughly before using it.
you should wash it atleast 3-4 times till it runs clear or acceptably clear.

even if you have 1.32ppm of po4 in 1gal of rodi, that means in 100gal it would only be 0.01ppm which is what ur tank normally would have had.
and even if u add that much to ur tank, the rice will take out the po4 in a matter of a day or two

 

[kkil4life]

(Quoted from KK----from all these pics, I'm forced to believe that I have way too much nutrients bound up within the rocks and I need to do something about it rather than the normal water changes and cleaning the rocks.
thus the experiment with the rice.......)

My thoughts as to why I can't get my Nirates down too. I have no algae issues within my system. TLF 550 reactor with Denirate has not worked for me. Sooo here comes the rice this Thursday

glad u've decided to try this donna.
let us know what ur starting levels are and what the levels are after you add the rice.
just remember that the rice should gently tumble not too much.

 

[kkil4life]

@ simonskl thanks for the heads up on the phosphates in the rice i have some rice soaking in salt water to test when my kits get here but i will check it for PO4 when i get home tonight

icycoral, hes got that high nitrates cuz he didnt wash the rice. neither you or I had this problem cuz we washed the rice.
plus that would only translate to 0.01ppm po4 in a 100gal system. and in ur case since u used half cup and u have approx 50gal, it would still be 0.01ppm.
nothing to worry about.

 

[SimonSKL]

IMO no problem here. If you have 1.32 ppm in 1 gal it will be ~0.02 ppm in system. (300L)

While 0.02ppm may not be a problem if your system is 0.00ppm to begin with, it will be a big difference for someone starts out with 0.03 and you add another 0.02 on top. In addition, the 1.32ppm is just from the first 2 hours, more phosphate may continue to leach into the water over a longer period. Still wash the rice with RODI water real good before use.

I just added 1/4 cup of the washed rice in my TLF 150 reactor and it's been going for an hour with no real increased activity in the skimmer. This is what I want anyway, no sudden change, just gradual.

 

[IBASSFSH]

How has your corals responded to this? Do you think I could mix rice into my large carbon reactor (with carbon)? My system is approx. 600 gallons how much rice do you think it would take? My tank is mostly SPS with a few LPS corals.

I have been using Rowaphos and still have some algae problems. I also have some cyano issues off and on.

I have two Deltec skimmers also AP 1004 AND AP902.

 

[kkil4life]

While 0.02ppm may not be a problem if your system is 0.00ppm to begin with, it will be a big difference for someone starts out with 0.03 and you add another 0.02 on top. In addition, the 1.32ppm is just from the first 2 hours, more phosphate may continue to leach into the water over a longer period. Still wash the rice with RODI water real good before use.

I just added 1/4 cup of the washed rice in my TLF 150 reactor and it's been going for an hour with no real increased activity in the skimmer. This is what I want anyway, no sudden change, just gradual.

simonskl, if you look a few pages back, I soaked WASHED rice into RODI water for 24hrs. approx 1/4 or 1/2 cup (cant remember) in a small water bottle. after 24hrs it had 0.1ppm of po4.
the reason u got high po4 is cuz u didnt wash it.
since u have the hanna checker, would you mind doing two tests on it?
1.unwashed rice for about 1 hour (like ur previous test)
2.throughly washed rice for the same amount of time

this will tell you what difference washed rice makes again unwashed rice in regards to po4.
would really appreciate it if you can post the results back here.
thanks man

 

[kkil4life]

How has your corals responded to this? Do you think I could mix rice into my large carbon reactor (with carbon)? My system is approx. 600 gallons how much rice do you think it would take? My tank is mostly SPS with a few LPS corals.

I have been using Rowaphos and still have some algae problems. I also have some cyano issues off and on.

I have two Deltec skimmers also AP 1004 AND AP902.

I wouldnt suggest u mix the rice with carbon. u have to change carbon every month and the rice will probably last you several months atleast.

since u have approx 600g system, you will need approx 6 cups of rice. BUT GO SLOW ON THIS.
start with 1 or 1/2 cups and work your way upto 5 or 6 cups (stop when you think u have good results), theres no point over doing it.
if u want immediate results and dont want to wait, you can go upto 3 or 4 cups and work ur way to 6 cups over a period of 2 weeks or so.

let us know what you decide and how ur outcome is

 

[SimonSKL]

simonskl, if you look a few pages back, I soaked WASHED rice into RODI water for 24hrs. approx 1/4 or 1/2 cup (cant remember) in a small water bottle. after 24hrs it had 0.1ppm of po4.
the reason u got high po4 is cuz u didnt wash it.
since u have the hanna checker, would you mind doing two tests on it?
1.unwashed rice for about 1 hour (like ur previous test)
2.throughly washed rice for the same amount of time

this will tell you what difference washed rice makes again unwashed rice in regards to po4.
would really appreciate it if you can post the results back here.
thanks man

I started out with 1 cup of rice and after soaking it for about 2 hrs in ~1 gal of RODI water and the result was, as posted earlier, 1.32ppm. I then washed and rinsed the rice 4-5 times in RODI water and took out 1/4 cup and added that to my tank in the TLF 150 reactor. I then added ~2L of RODI water to the remaining 3/4 cup of rice and checked the PO4 using my Hanna Checker, it reads 0.47ppm. Convert it back to 1 cup of rice in 1 gal it would be approx 0.31ppm per gal. To summarize, after washing and rinsing the rice 4-5X in RODI water, the amount of PO4 was reduced by ~75%.

 

[kkil4life]

I started out with 1 cup of rice and after soaking it for about 2 hrs in ~1 gal of RODI water and the result was, as posted earlier, 1.32ppm. I then washed and rinsed the rice 4-5 times in RODI water and took out 1/4 cup and added that to my tank in the TLF 150 reactor. I then added ~2L of RODI water to the remaining 3/4 cup of rice and checked the PO4 using my Hanna Checker, it reads 0.47ppm. Convert it back to 1 cup of rice in 1 gal it would be approx 0.31ppm per gal. To summarize, after washing and rinsing the rice 4-5X in RODI water, the amount of PO4 was reduced by ~75%.

and thats exactly what my first test of the washed rice showed.
so this reconfirms that the rice does need to be washed throughly before useing.

keep us updated on ur rice results

 

[kkil4life]

I was just reading up on another thread about the np bio-pellets, something else I guess that we need to list down.

everytime I say all tank inhabitants are ok, I mean my fish, lps,sps, softies (mushrooms and zoos), snails, hermit crab, feather dusters and tubeworms.

what about shrimps, slugs, urchins and cucumbers?
those trying the rice out that have any other inhabitants other than the same family as mine can you please post up if they undergo stress or show any other signs?

the reason I bought this up is, for example, hyposalinity for treating ich works wonders on all fish, but sharks and rays. u cant use hypo on corals or inverts.
on the same line, I wanted to make sure that all information regarding to the rice is explored here, so that anyone wantin to use rice will know for sure if its going to effect their inhabitatnts. for example maybe sharks and rays would stress out with the rice, but if everyone just keeps saying their fish are good, someone who has sharks or rays wouldn't know if its suitable for their system.

SO FAR NO INhaBITANTS HAVE HAD ANY PROBLEM , this is only to help those who want to try rice in the future. I dont see any inverts having problems with the rice either.

 

[daveonbass]

those that remember may recall that my tank had low PO4...and HIGH NO3. The guess as to why the BP weren't working was maybe from being PO4 limited. This is one reason I'm both hopeful and not concerned with the PO4 leaching from the rice. It may give the bacteria that added balance to the ratio of N and P that my system needs to get anyof these methods to work.

 

[elijaher]

Rice user it time to make a guideline:
1. 1/4 to 1/2 cups per 50 to 75 per gallons
2. soak rice at least 24 hours after that rinse rice at least twice.
3. How long will rice last. So far month but stll pending.
4. White rice long or short grain will work fine.
5. You can use reactor or place it in the sump.
6. Beware of your skimmer it go wild my need to adjusted.
What you think so far this if more needed to add.

 

[DJREEF]

those that remember may recall that my tank had low PO4...and HIGH NO3. The guess as to why the BP weren't working was maybe from being PO4 limited. This is one reason I'm both hopeful and not concerned with the PO4 leaching from the rice. It may give the bacteria that added balance to the ratio of N and P that my system needs to get anyof these methods to work.

Dude, I think you got in on that bunk batch of pellets that was going around for a brief period.

DJ

 

[SimonSKL]

Rice user it time to make a guideline:
1. 1/4 to 1/2 cups per 50 to 75 per gallons
2. soak rice at least 24 hours after that rinse rice at least twice.
3. How long will rice last. So far month but stll pending.
4. White rice long or short grain will work fine.
5. You can use reactor or place it in the sump.
6. Beware of your skimmer it go wild my need to adjusted.
What you think so far this if more needed to add.

I think so far people who are running rice don't run GFO, Vodka dosing, nor BP. I also recommend rinsing rice at least 4-5 times in RODI water.

 

[DZs]

I have nems, coco worm and a long-spined urchin along with 3 pom pom crabs that has their nems in each claws. If that helps for added critters to watch out for.

 

[HighlandReefer]

FWIW, personally I would not like to see bacterial blooms occurring in tanks from any solid carbon source. I have seen this occur with the store bought solid carbon products, vodka/vinegar as well as the rice. Many of the hobbyists seem to think the blooms are ok and it does seem like there have been few problems from the blooms. Still, I don't believe this is a good practice to encourage. If hobbyists do see bacterial blooms occur, I would think they would want to reduce the amount of rice used by about 1/2 and then slowly increase it. Perhaps it would be better to start with half the recommended amount and slowly add more rice over time. Patience is a virtue in our hobby. Just my two cents.

 

[HighlandReefer]

I'm still looking forward to some documented results with hobbyists who decide to try the rice and have high levels of phosphate and nitrate. I will be nice to see how fast they drop so hobbyists know about what to expect. There can be variables such as the type of bacteria present in ones tank vs. another tank that can reflect changes in the rate of drop of nitrate & phosphate.

I would assume that much of the phosphate and vitamins that are added to the rice will be soaked away with proper rinsing before using the rice. The B vitamins that are added are all water soluable.

I'm not clear regarding the results after soaking the rice and re-rinsing. Are there still significant phosphates left or will continued soaking eliminate the phosphate almost completely?

It will be interesting to see how long the rice will last. I suspect somewhere around 2 months, but could be way off. Perhaps you will just need to add more as they are slowly used up much like the solid polymers.

Hobbyists who decide to place the rice in bags may find they will need to rinse it often, especially if slime forms on the bag.

 

[daveonbass]

Dude, I think you got in on that bunk batch of pellets that was going around for a brief period.

DJ

if you go back and re-read the NP thread....the manufacturer claims that there was NO bunk batch. There was simply a batch that took longer...but still worked. And that batch had a completly different shape. Mine were purchased before that batch was ever made and if I recall that batch didn't end up in the US (not much). I really feel disapointed too like simon that the people who made it were and still are so vague. Even the NEW makers seem to be giving similar instructions...vague. That's weak. Either way I'm now using the NP batch as an experiment in my QT system. We'll see...

 

[WTyson]

following.... (wish i didnt just buy 500 ml of vertex pellets now)

 

[thebanker]

I was following ur IO liquid n and p reducer thread and was really interested in that, but I think this would be a cheaper and better source of carbon dosing.

I hope rice manufacturers dont read this and hike up the price for their "reef ready rice".....lol

The IO stuff is very good. I used it up until about 2 weeks ago when I dosed the last of it to my tank. It definitely makes the skimmate thicker and darker. However, it is more of a "passive" carbon dosing method, since you simply dose the liquid and hope for the best. With the rice reactor, you can keep the carbon source and bacterial population isolated.

Since I'm already a user (and big fan) of Microbacter7, I might combine rice with MB7, and see how it goes. My one issue is my skimmer... it's a CPR that's built into my fuge. Once I figure out how to mod my CPR Aero Force to fit on my tank with all the other HOB crap... We're in business!