My take on BACFM
- Thread starter zapata41
- Start date
Thales
Active member
I enjoyed the event way more than I thought I was going to. Really nice to put faces to names, and just to see bunches of eye candy, and I prefer to see the coral I am buying before I buy it.
I did think spreading the auctions and raffles out through the day took the 'heat' off of them. They didn't feel that important and momentum didn't really get rolling. At the same time I understand reasons for spreading them out.
I did think spreading the auctions and raffles out through the day took the 'heat' off of them. They didn't feel that important and momentum didn't really get rolling. At the same time I understand reasons for spreading them out.
Not the case in this instance, sorry
Some people actually do things for the greater cause.Steve and Art did not, and don't plan to, pull in loads of money. Art has a real job, as does Steve. Steve sold his corals at the event, thus making his money there
Belive me, with the overhead of insurance, venue, advertsing, etc, there's not a lot to spread around. I've known Steve for years, he's extremelly passionate about propigation. I just met Art a few months ago, but he strikes me as the same.
I think they did a slamming job, I hope it continues northwards as well. It would do good up in Seattle IMO.
Thales
Active member
And most people don't grasp what it actually takes to provide cultured animals consistently and in numbers for sale. There are so many things that can go wrong. It just isn't all that easy 'specially on a small scale. Sure people doing it want money, but they sure aren't making all that much.
AWExotics
New member
wow... I am happy to see such positive remarks. Yes Steve is a great guy. I have known him for quite sometime and I definitely agree with alot of his beliefs in this hobby.
The parts that I am happy to see are in regards to how important captive propagation is. I have supported ORA's fish department for almost 10 years now and started buying their corals almost immediately after they started offering them. Some of you have read my comments on my website gallery in regards to Captive propagation, Aqua culturing, and Wild Collection. I am sure some of you have seen some of my rants as well in various post boards including here on RC.
Thanks to those who attended the BA-CFM. I had a great time and will be a regular at these markets and many others that I can attend. I do believe that Captive Propagation is the future of this hobby.
The parts that I am happy to see are in regards to how important captive propagation is. I have supported ORA's fish department for almost 10 years now and started buying their corals almost immediately after they started offering them. Some of you have read my comments on my website gallery in regards to Captive propagation, Aqua culturing, and Wild Collection. I am sure some of you have seen some of my rants as well in various post boards including here on RC.
Thanks to those who attended the BA-CFM. I had a great time and will be a regular at these markets and many others that I can attend. I do believe that Captive Propagation is the future of this hobby.
JenDub
In Memoriam
I can't agree more.=)
Conservation through propagation is the future and thanks to Steve and Art for spreading the word mainstream.
Charles and I will be at these events as much as we can. We give your 100% support to this event and other alike. I hope everyone will have the chance to make it out to one.=)
sfsuphysics
Active member
Ok, now I hate to stir up a hornet's nest here... and I really do not intend to flame, but I do have a question regarding "conservation"
Can someone explain to me how things like the CFM helps in this regard? Now I ask simply because it seems that the aquaculture market (atleast what I saw) tends to be with the high end/rarer market, and if that's the case then you're only conserving a small nitch of the ocean which might not really have much of an impact.
Now can someone point out the flaw in my thinking (assuming there is one).
Can someone explain to me how things like the CFM helps in this regard? Now I ask simply because it seems that the aquaculture market (atleast what I saw) tends to be with the high end/rarer market, and if that's the case then you're only conserving a small nitch of the ocean which might not really have much of an impact.
Now can someone point out the flaw in my thinking (assuming there is one).
Thales
Active member
Any conversation is good conversation, but more important at this time is the attitude of conservation. The more people are thinking about propagation, the more likely more people will practice it.
Of course there are the issues of 'chop shopping', but even that gets the one collected head to many people instead of one, giving the coral a better chance of staying in the 'pool'. And the higher price seem to make people think they should take better care of the coral.
Of course there are the issues of 'chop shopping', but even that gets the one collected head to many people instead of one, giving the coral a better chance of staying in the 'pool'. And the higher price seem to make people think they should take better care of the coral.
tacocat
Premium Member
Ah Mike good question,
Consider it natural selection. If you are propogating corals, which do you propogate? Do you propogate the unusual, pretty ones, or the bland ones? People who tend to swap frags around tend to spread their nicer stuff around.
With this in mind, more "average" corals are still being propogated, but they will not be sold at the CFM. A club frag swap should be an indication that there is a TON of green slimer and xenia being propogated.
While the CFM doesn't reach out to the masses, it still reaches out to some folks. What it does do is get a bunch of people together to buy, swap, and sell captive bred (for the most part) corals.
AWExotics
New member
That's a good point. I agree that if we want to help in "conservation" we need to porpagate as many corals as possible. Right now the high end corals are more heavily focused on and I beleive that will always be the case. I know in my case, I propagate Discosoma (Actinodiscus) spp of common mushrooms. I also propagte Pink Pocillopora, Green Bali Slimer, Green Pocillopora, the common pink millepora, Orange capricornis, Green digitatta, purple digitatta... etc etc..
All of these are not high end corals. I believe we should CP every coral that we can. Build a diversity in our own prop systems. Problem is it takes space, time and all of that is money. So when I tell some on that my pink pocillopora med size frag retails at $30. It's worth it. My Pink poci originated from Tracy Gray and dates back about 8 years in captivity. Not a single polyp on my mother colony has ever seen the ocean.
Eventually, customers need to be educated on the benefits of buying true Captive Propagated Corals.
CP corals are extrememly hardy and have "acclimated" to the wide range of fluctuations in water chemisty, temperature, that are common in home aquariums.
CP corals have colored under artificial lighting and are a "known" Captive color and growth form. There are some variations depending upon your lighting temperature.
Buying a CP coral as oppossed to a wild collected piece, keeps one morecolony on the reef where it belongs. It promotes conservation.
In the next year, I will have a Zoanthid prop systems a finished mushroom prop system, LPS prop system to prop some Euphyilia as well as the more popular Acan, Blast , and my Duncan., And a second large prop system which mainly does SPS and the likes.
So I do beleive that events like these support conservation. Awareness is raised and many vendors brought "lower end" corals for the "newbies" who attended the event. No disrespect meant.
Todd
Also...
Also...
Also...
There is also an argument to be made that propagating the corals less often imported, thus rarer (in the hobby and likely in the wild), thus more expensive, does much for maintaining diversity in the captive gene pool. If a Superman morph is only .01% of all nodosa coming in, it would be quite a loss not to "capture" that strain for captive propagation and conservation efforts.-Jim
sfsuphysics
Active member
Good points one and all, I guess it also goes a bit further since most of the "good stuff" gets cherry picked at facilities which typically goes to those who buy tons of generic stuff to get that perk. So having less cherry pickers means less generic stuff that needs to be sold.
JenDub
In Memoriam
Re: Also...
Re: Also...
I agree totally to this and the other points made. I think it is vital to this hobby to spread "strains" around. Who knows what will happen to your reefs in the future but I can tell you it doesn't look good.
One day, those common corals might not be so common....looks over at tank full of xenia....=)
Re: Also...
I agree totally to this and the other points made. I think it is vital to this hobby to spread "strains" around. Who knows what will happen to your reefs in the future but I can tell you it doesn't look good.
One day, those common corals might not be so common....looks over at tank full of xenia....=)
Al G Blenny
New member
WOW!!! I'm glad to see so many responses to the ba-cfm. This is a sure sign that people are very interested in this event. I think we will be seeing lots of them to come. I have to point out a couple of things on the door charge. If it was less there would be a lot of people going just to go. Not to buy high end corals. Steve and Art are trying to market this event mostly to collectors of rare corals. At a $10 door charge there would be lots of people going that would then come home and flame the event online as having way too expensive corals. Plus as many have stated the vendors need to know probable head counts. Higher door cost at the event gets more people buying tickets earlier.
The auctions mostly had very low starting bids. I bought the Jesus echinata (the BA-CFM logo coral) for $55. That one should have gone for at least $150. Did you guys see the size of it? This is a future AE. I could probably get three frags from it right now ( I won't so don't ask ). The biggest problem IMO was the reserve. People bid on corals in the beginning that had a reserve and then couldn't get them because the reserve wasn't met. I didn't put any reserves on mine. I think it is disheartening to openly bid on a coral and then lose to nobody.
As for the Bay Area event drawing less money, I knew all of us locals were the cheapest SOBs there are. That is why I brought a bunch of cheaper corals and even gave a bunch of them away. We have such a high cost of living here that we have to be penny pinchers. At the other events I will bring more LE corals. At the Bay Area ones I will bring more cheap corals.
I think the vendors have to realize that door price is daunting so we should sell LEs at discount (most of already did). That alone should cover the door price. Plus no shipping which is usually around $50 also. Customers should realize that they will save money if they just buy some corals. This is the cheapest way to get rare corals.
One added bonus to the vendors is sheer advertisment. I watched the stats on my site and noticed a large increase in views after Tyree and Art put a link to my site. This event has really helped sales.
Just like most of the other vendors I will be a regular. If for nothing else it was a lot of fun.
The auctions mostly had very low starting bids. I bought the Jesus echinata (the BA-CFM logo coral) for $55. That one should have gone for at least $150. Did you guys see the size of it? This is a future AE. I could probably get three frags from it right now ( I won't so don't ask
). The biggest problem IMO was the reserve. People bid on corals in the beginning that had a reserve and then couldn't get them because the reserve wasn't met. I didn't put any reserves on mine. I think it is disheartening to openly bid on a coral and then lose to nobody. As for the Bay Area event drawing less money, I knew all of us locals were the cheapest SOBs there are. That is why I brought a bunch of cheaper corals and even gave a bunch of them away. We have such a high cost of living here that we have to be penny pinchers. At the other events I will bring more LE corals. At the Bay Area ones I will bring more cheap corals.
I think the vendors have to realize that door price is daunting so we should sell LEs at discount (most of already did). That alone should cover the door price. Plus no shipping which is usually around $50 also. Customers should realize that they will save money if they just buy some corals. This is the cheapest way to get rare corals.
One added bonus to the vendors is sheer advertisment. I watched the stats on my site and noticed a large increase in views after Tyree and Art put a link to my site. This event has really helped sales.
Just like most of the other vendors I will be a regular. If for nothing else it was a lot of fun.
Unarce
Unshackled
by Al G Blenny
I bought the Jesus echinata (the BA-CFM logo coral) for $55. That one should have gone for at least $150. Did you guys see the size of it? This is a future AE. I could probably get three frags from it right now ( I won't so don't ask
Yeah, yeah, rub it in, Matt
Seriously, though. Great post. I didn't want to be the one to flat out say we've got some cheap reefers up here:lol:
