My thoughts on copperbands

[TheGodParticle]

Interesting read, thanks for posting. Very bluntly put, here's my thoughts on copperbands. Leave them in the ocean. They are one of the most cycled through fish in this hobby and I don't know why LFS carry them. 8/10 people will kill every single copperband they buy. I'm just one man's thoughts though.

 

[Paul B]

Reefsandrotts, here is the link

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2166449&highlight=feeder

TheGodparticle, that is true with many fish and copperbands do kind of fit in there but I believe if you have a little experience a copperband is not that difficult of a fish. People also say that about mandarins and I find them to be one of the easiest, no maintenance fish there is. Many fish fit your thinking about leaving in the ocean such as Moorish Idols, twin spot gobies and orange spotted filefish but copperbands are a staple of the hobby as are tangs (which I almost never keep as I find them boreing).
I think as yoy say 8 out of 10 people kill them, I think 8 out of 10 people kill everything they put in their tank, but it is a hobby that takes millions of creatures from the sea and virtually none of them reproduce to help their kind in the sea. We may keep them a month or ten years but we kill all of them.
I am also on a forum in South Africa and just this morning on a post from this same thread I was told that copperbands are extreamly common on their shores in turbid, silty water and they can collect babies by the hundreds. They are not a rare fish but I can see your point. Not everyone should buy one. I am giving one away
next week because my old one will not accept the new one and I will only give it to someone who will feed it live worms, clams and occasionally Mysis. They will eat other things but I feel worms should be a major part of their diet as is a tank that is not to sterile. If you want to feed other things, which may be fine for other fish, I don't think it will be the best diet for a copperband and I won't give that fish to them.
I have posted many times my feelings about how fish should be fed but still many people think that if they keep a fish for 3 or 4 years, that is a success. That is terrible and has much to do with food. This hobby is not rocket science, the information is there. We can't change the way fish digest food even though we have a wide assortment of things to feed them, they "need" certain things no matter how much of something else they may eat.
Just my opinion of course as I have no say as to what fish people buy and what they do with them. I have a little knowledge and I am trying to share it before I get senile

 

[Theomi]

Remember, this is what I do and I am not the God of fish.

Are you sure Paul :lolspin:
Good read, i enjoyed it.

Btw how do you feed it with mysis ?
Is it live mysis or do just throw some dead mysis in the tank?

 

[Paul B]

All my fish get every day live blackworms, new born brine shrimp, clams and on alternate days, frozen Mysis. I don't just throw any food in my tank, it is all fed with a feeder like baster thing.
One of these because all fish eat different things. If I just threw food in there, the shrimp/gobi combination would starve as they only stay in their burrow, the spawning cardinals stay under their rock, the other gobies hang out in a corner, the arrow crab needs to be fed as do the clown gobies in the acropora. The copperband is the best eater and he would hog all the food so I feed him on one side, then feed all the other animals.

 

[power boat jim]

All my fish get every day live blackworms, new born brine shrimp, clams and on alternate days, frozen Mysis. I don't just throw any food in my tank, it is all fed with a feeder like baster thing

Now I see why you are so successful with these fish, You live in an area where these foods are easy and cheap to get. I live in Chicago so I feed my fish pizza and hot dogs. Its very hard to get pizza in a baster.

In all seriousness, this is what must be done to keep certain species healthy. Too many folks just feed what is convienient for them, not whats good for the fish. This is the reason i only have six easy to keep fish, I would not make the effort you do to keep them healthy. More hobbiests need to realize fish food is not one size fits all.

 

[Paul B]

Jim I posted that numerous times. Fish can and will eat all sorts of things but they won't "thrive" on it. Many people also think that if a fish lives 2 or 3 years, that is a success. That is horrible. I keep what some people feel are delicate fish, I don't think they are delicate and don't have problems with them because I know what they are supposed to eat. Whenever a fish gets sick someone always asks, "what are your parameters"? Fish don't really care what your parameters are or even what your nitrate is. Maybe corals do, but fish don't, to an extent. My nitrates were tested by a LFS last week because I was curious and my nitrates are about fifty now. That is much higher then they ever been and I don't advocate that but I wanted them about 40 because at that level, my corals including my SPS were thriving and growing faster then they ever had. That was just an experiment and I will lower them but even at that very high number, almost all my fish, including my mandarins are spawning so apparently my nitrates don't faze them much. Spawning fish are healthy fish and fish can be no healthier they when they are spawning. If fish are not in spawning condition, they are not eating correctly no matter what your parameters are (with in reason).
Of course if you keep fish in sawdust instead of seawater, there may be a problem.
People tell me I should not add fish to my tank without quarantining, and if your fish are not in spawning condition, I agree with that, but spawning fish, as I said are in excellent condition and they don't get sick. How do I know? Trust me, I am old and have been doing this since last Tuesday. Some people have experience curing ich. I have cured ich so many times I can't even spell "ick" any more. Fish in spawning mode, don't get it.
If you don't agree with me start a thread with the title, Paul B doesn't know if fish should be kept in sawdust or cranberry juice. (I really don't) :dance:

 

[Moort82]

Hi Paul, you mention that your not really a fan of tangs (with you there). I wonder if some of your experience with these butterflies could be to do with your fish choices. It seems you keep a lot of smaller species which are unlikely to bully or intimadate a copperband. Have you mixed them with larger active species at all?

 

[Paul B]

Moort82 at one time my tank was filled with moray eels, lionfish, anglerfish, triggers, puffers, porcupinefish and tangs and I do like those animals but after so many years with them, I got tired and wanted something different. My copperband is my largest fish but I have had them when I used to keep tangs with no problem. Now my tank is filled with about 25 much smaller, more interesting, odder fish that are not as common. How many tangs have you seen? Most tanks are filled with them. I usually keep at least one hippo tang just becaue they are IMO the most beautiful, but they are so common that I don't even want them anymore. If I see something that I have never seen before, I want it. I like clingfish, shrimpfish, pineconefish, lookdowns, flashlightfish etc, fish you don't see every day. Lookdowns get to big so I can't have them, pinecone fish are very rare and very expensive as are flashlightfish but some day I will get them. I would rather have a weird looking gobi pair that is spawning than 50 lipstick tangs. It's just me.
When I kept freshwater fish I loved elephantnose fish, lungfish, leaf fish, tire track eels, freshwater flounders, rays etc. Anyone can raise zebrafish, angelfish and beta's which I have done so many times

This burrfish I collected here in NY as a tiny baby as large as a dime. I kept him for a year in a separate tank and when he was about 5" long I donated him to the NY Aquarium, a more interesting fish is hard to come by :beer:

 

[Moort82]

I used to manage a lfs so have had the chance to look after most species of tangs and nearly all of the ones you mention excluding the pinecone and flashlites. Copperbands are a species i just wouldn't get in as they just didn't ship well when my boss used to get them and no matter what type of tank they went in and with what fish, they didn't last longer than a few months. When i took over i made the decision to not stock them. It partly because they are one of my favourite fish and i didn't want to see them suffer. So i'm really interested in how you have kept them longterm. It really is encouraging to hear and i do love reading your threads.
Ironically you mention the moorish idols are one you either haven't had success with or tried. Its another species which i was relutant and definitely against getting in but the few that came through the shop always did really well and i know 2 of the 3 are still going a couple of years later.

Would be interested if you do keep the clingfish. I had some success with this species but had to move it on as it began to steal the eggs from my cleaner shrimps, which sent them nuts.
Shrimpfish were cool to keep and we had them with a shoal of garden eels. They were actually very easy, similar to many pipefish. I think your tank would be suited a nice shoal.

 

[Paul B]

If you don't believe in the power of blackworms, look at these two pictures
This one is today and the second one is from about 3 days ago. She is almost completely healed from the beating she received from my older copperband.

 

[Pallobi]

I need to find a source for blackworms and learn about breeding blackworms... I love copperbands but have never had success...

 

[Paul B]

If more people fed these things every day, there would not be all these disease threads.
But what do I know?

 

[Moort82]

Wish i could find them over here. Ordered them several times when i did the live food orders but they never came in so don't know if they are allowed in the country. We have very silly laws.

 

[alexander_ktn]

I could get blackworms here but at horrendous prices and I would need to have them sent to me from Germany.

I agree that it's a food that falls into the prey scheme of many of our fish so it should make getting them to eat easier.

 

[Paul B]

Alexander I was in Austria not to long ago and I didn't see any blackworms either.

 

[alexander_ktn]

Ha, it's a small world!
Did you go skiing?

Would have been awesome (and embarrassing, lol) if you'd have told me where to get blackworms in Austria from the other side of the world.

 

[Paul B]

No, I was on a riverboat cruise on the Danube.

 

[alexander_ktn]

Very nice! I hope you enjoyed it - i heard it's a very scenic route (never did it myself).

 

[Paul B]

Very nice! I hope you enjoyed it - i heard it's a very scenic route (never did it myself).

Your not supposed to do it, almost no New Yorkers ever go to the Statue of Liberty because it is just there and we see it all the time.
We did enjoy it

 

[GAM GAM]

Good read. Huge fan of the copperband butterfly. Cant get live blackworms here in canada but mine is fat and happy on mussels, oysters, and ate its first mysis from the water column like two days ago (had this fish for four months now). Like u said I think that the trick to these fish is getting a healthy one and getting it to eat something, anything untill it has time to figure out how eating in captivity works.