N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing) - Split

Here are some keys points from an article. The article is by a commericial product manufacturer that might not be a sponsor on here so I will not link to it. I am not copying more then 10 per cent of it so I think I am safe.
IMO it seems to contract what is posted here about the production of hetertrophic bacteria and there use in our systems so I would appreciate input

Key Points

True nitrifying bacteria are strictly aerobic autotrophs. They can only use nitrogen from inorganic sources such as ammonia and nitrite. Nitrosomonas (ammonia-oxidizers) and Nitrobacter (nitrite-oxidizers) are the most common.

Heterotrophic bacteria are generally considered to be organic sludge degraders. They are mostly from the genera Bacillus and Pseudomonas. Most of these are facultative anaerobes; meaning they can function with or without oxygen. They will do completely different functions depending on the level of dissolved oxygen present.

Heterotrophic "nitrifiers" prefer to obtain their nitrogen from organic sources such as decomposing organic debris. Those that can convert ammonia do so only when an organic nitrogen source is not available. This is unlikely to happen in an aquarium or pond where fish are present. The explosion of "nitrifying" bacteria products in the industry is due to research that some heterotrophs can use ammonia-nitrogen. However, this is under ideal laboratory conditions.

Heterotrophic "nitrifiers" generally cannot utilize nitrites. Only a few species are capable of reducing nitrite to free nitrogen, but, under strictly anaerobic conditions.

Scientific studies indicate that, depending on species, between one thousand to one million heterotrophic bacteria cells are required to perform the same ammonia conversion rate as one Nitrosomonas bacteria cell.

"Product x" has a cell count of 30 million bacteria per ounce, 50% of which is Nitrosomonas and 50% Nitrobacter. To obtain the same ammonia conversion rate, a competitive product composed of heterotrophic "nitrifiers" would require the addition of 15 trillion bacteria. This would probably require several gallons of another product. No quantity of heterotrophic "nitrifiers" would reduce the generated nitrites.

Heterotrophic "nitrifiers" can also operate in the reverse direction; that is they can convert nitrate to nitrite or ammonia, especially during times of low dissolved oxygen levels. In a pond, this could potentially happen during the hours before sunrise when DO levels are at their lowest.

There are no dry forms of any bacterial product that can contain viable Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter cells. Unlike heterotrophs, they cannot form spores so they cannot survive any type of drying or freeze-drying process.
 
I have read that before...on the Bio-Spira website circa 2003, and had to do with the nitrogen cycle and why Bio-Spira works where the freeze dried bacteria product did not. Not the same thing as what we are doing with carbon dosing.
 
After reading this whole thread for 2 weeks with every second of my time, I have come up with a few scenarios.

1) On initial purchase of pellets, why not soak them in tank water in a bucket with sugar and a pump, or, even better, in a reactor to work out the kinks. I think that the pellets would only work with what it gets saturated in, hence Daves attempt to add sugar which worked. Soaked in tank water for a millennia didnt do anything, maybe it finally got a deep saturation of something that could biologically activate them. Still makes me wonder why a little, but, if we soak them in sugar for X amount of time it, just before the water gets too funky, they would be charged and ready?

2) Since Peroxide is a bacterial fighting solution, some peroxide in the tank to kill it? Hey, thats another experiment, but possible avenue for cyano?

3) I definitely think pellets and vinegar could be a big hit in the right proportions, but, thats not a true hands off process, but, if you want no cyano, Absolute 0 N and P, I would think using bios to pull down the onslaught of P, then, when cyano kicks in and N is low, back off the pellets while adding vinegar and pulling some pellets and then back off the vinegar until you et a equilibrium going.


Just a few whacky ideas I had to post after all that reading, lol.
 
Just an update... I've been running bio pellets since October 2010 on my tank and I've had zero issues with cyano or anything else. I set up my pellets while the tank cycled and didn't add any livestock until 3 months later.
 
Just an update... I've been running bio pellets since October 2010 on my tank and I've had zero issues with cyano or anything else. I set up my pellets while the tank cycled and didn't add any livestock until 3 months later.

Same here. Ive been running Ecobak for the life of my tank. Started them as soon as the tank cycled. 18 months now. Not a single issue with it. Absolutely had nothing but great results from it. Although, now that my tank is fully stocked, and I am feeding heavy, i did see my phosphates creep up to 0.26. I added 40ml of new pellets, increased the tumble a bit, and in 3 days it had dropped to 0.08. But would not go down any further. I ended up adding 6 tbl spoons of GFO and now they are 0.02.

It seems to me that folks that add these to their existing systems, were adding too much too fast. Hence the issues.
 
Do you guys have any long term problem with running bio pellets? Like coral losing color? Turning brownish?

Just the opposite Mrmole.

The algae in the coral is naturally brown in colour. What can happen in situations without the proper lighting is that the algae multiply in order to compensate for the lack of photosynthesis that they can perform for the coral needs. As they increase their numbers the coral assumes the brown colour.
IMO you need to address your lighting needs and just as importantly the placement of your corals in your tank.
Can you provide details about your lighting and the corals you have?
 
I have been running Pellets for at least 6 months now. I have 15 fish in a 100G tank. They are mostly chromis and anthias, the only big ones are the hippo tang and the yellow tang. Besides I have a tomato and 2 clarkies.

Test: No3 2ppm, Po4 0.04

The lighting fixture is a 2 x MH 150W and 4 T5 actinics.
When you say adjust do I increase or decrease intensity?
 
I have been running Pellets for at least 6 months now. I have 15 fish in a 100G tank. They are mostly chromis and anthias, the only big ones are the hippo tang and the yellow tang. Besides I have a tomato and 2 clarkies.

Test: No3 2ppm, Po4 0.04

The lighting fixture is a 2 x MH 150W and 4 T5 actinics.
When you say adjust do I increase or decrease intensity?

with the observations you have given me I would say decrease intensity.
This can be accomplished by moving the corals down from the light, reducing the photoperiod and or raising the light fixture.
 
Sorry boys but it seems to me that you all still fighting the worst problem in reef keeping.
I want to feed more but my tank gets dirty.
Duh.
I have had several reefs along the way. 29 bio did so well w pc's I did maybe 5/6 wc a year. This thing had a frog and a torch that covered the front of the tank.
yes I had a low bio load but I still believe in 1" for a qft. Why do you need all this extra stuff Just drop your feeding and stimulate the water well. If you think a REEF does not flow then just go swim in Bali or Florida Or Manilla or well get the point?
Feed the fish Just don't pollute the water. Change a filter pads or sock and well, Mechanical works if you use it.
 
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