N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing) - Split

[tntneon]

hi reefers ,

In my country i hear positif results and stories about a new kind of bio degradeble polymer pellet which is capable of reducing N and P , like dosing vodka.

with the advantage that the bacteria only grow on the pellets (and not on glas and other surfaces) after a while you just change your filter sock or fluidising bed with new pellets.

does anyone of you in the states has any experience with this sorts of pellets ?

i have orderd me some of these pellets
will post it when i'm gonna start to use them.

greetingzz tntneon

 

[BlueCorn]

This thread has been split.

The original thread can be seen here:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1694529

 

[rickh]

I have been running pellets in a TLF reactor for 2 months with no results. The reactor is on a branch of return. The pellets tumble, not clumped, everything looks fine.

When I turn off the return to feed the pellets settle to the bottom of the reactor. When the pump is started again the pellets are blown wildly up to the top of the reactor by the sudden surge of water and air. Do you think this burst of water could be blowing the bacteria off the pellets??

Should I try a separate pump that isn't turned on and off several times a day??

Ideas??

 

[tntneon]

Hi rickh ,

I don't think that the air would blow the bacteria off .
But air tends to stick on the pellets and then they float.
Do you not see any changes in skimmate or skimmer production ?
wich brand of pellets do you use ?
is reactor output near skimmer intake ?

greetingzz tntneon

 

[rickh]

The pellets are BRS. The TLF reactor has been modified with the screens. The reactor discharge is directed into PVC fitting mounted on the skimmer pump intake. The skimmer does produce some nasty gunk, but the algae in the tank is still doing great.

Before trying the pellets I dosed Vodka for about 2 years. It worked to eliminate the algae, but the rocks and plumbing were covered in bacterial slime. I had to disassemble and clean the skimmer about every week. I stopped the alcohol and within a few months the algae was back.

I have read hundreds of posts about the Pellets over the last year before trying them and many people believe they just don't work.

R

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I personally do not see an advantage of pellets over soluble organics such as vinegar.

The only theoretical advantage was localization of the organic, but that seems to not be true in many cases as folks still can get blooms or growths elsewhere in the tank.

 

[Bababooy]

what are your nitrate and phosphate readings?
it has been written in this thread that's if one is higher than the other the pellets won't work well.

I am on 3 and a half weeks and the pellets seem to be working well for me but my nitrate and phosphate were in good ratio to 1 another. I am feeding much more and po4 is .02 with no3 never rising above 3 ppm. It's very early for me but so far I'm happy.

 

[flyin2jz]

I started pellets in a tlf reactor less than a week ago. I have seen. Huge difference in the amount of algea on the glass. Now i don't get much on the glass at all. I don't know why this is but it's amazing. My glass used to need cleaned 2 times a day and now it's on 3 days and only has a tiny bit. I'm also using microbe lift special blend to really get things moving. I have some cyano I'm trying to get rid of.

 

[jgsteven]

Dosing as a biopellet advantage

Dosing as a biopellet advantage

The only theoretical advantage was localization of the organic, but that seems to not be true in many cases as folks still can get blooms or growths elsewhere in the tank.

Hi Randy,

It seems to me that automatic dosing is an additional plus -- the fact that the pellets self regulate the amount of carbon they release based on the nurtrients present in the system whereas you have to measure the amount of lquid carbon-source you dose.

I have been dosing carbon, and just added a biopellet reactor. As it turns out, I was likely under-dosing the carbon as my skimmate volume is increased and I am seeing a bacterial film all over the tank. I believe this suggests I still had plenty of free nutrient that the lquid dosing wasn't taking care of (which I knew single GHA was still growing).

To your point, however, my bacterial growth has not been localized at all. I see bacterial film all over the tank.

Regards,

jgsteven

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure I accept that difference. How can folks get cyano growing remotely from the pellets if they are not releasing organics, and if they are, how is it different?

 

[reeftivo]

yesterday was 1 month for me and pellets have darkened up with a slight rounding of the BRS pellets. po4 remains at .02 and no3 is now at 1ppm. Absolutely love the aquamaxx reactor. No clogging at all!

I can now go a week before I need to clean the glass. The glass only developes a dusting as compared to the light green algae I used to clean off every 3 days.

Happy so far but becoming concerned for my bubble tip since it wouldn't feed last night. It usually eats like a pig. I'm thinking it's not liking the lower levels.

Will update.

 

[smokey30]

Yesterday was week 3 for me and I have to say I am having great results. All of my algae has gone away I am sure it was a mixture of things that contributed to it, but I am pretty sure the pellets was the biggest contributing factor. Finally I can feed on a normal schedule without waking up to another bloom of algae, and run my lights on a full schedule. I have been cleaning my skimmer cup about every 4 days and taking out pretty much mud its awesome.

In the past I have tried the pellets with bad results and was concerned going into it for a second time, I think the biggest change that I made compared to last time was starting with a very small amount of pellets and letting the tank get used to them instead of slamming the tank with the recommended amount.

 

[Bababooy]

Same here! Started with half the recommended amount, soaked them for 48 hours in tank water and so far so great! I will be adding more pellets eventually but for now perameters are fine.

 

[reeftivo]

Lost my bubble tip!! GRRRR!

couldn't get it to feed.

Anyone else experiencing difficulty with nems while using the pellets?

the rest of the livestock is doing fine.

tivo

 

[gregr]

Bubble tip anemone went into the rocks and was never seen again when I put one in the tank on about month 3 of bio-pellets. It's been almost ten months that the pellets have been running now and I added a bubble tip anemone a couple weeks ago- it's doing great. Added a beautiful long tentacle anemone too and it has been fully open since 5 minutes after I placed it in the tank.
I have 3 mini carpet anemones that changed color dramatically when I started the pellets. The never shrunk or anything but on about month 7 they got their original coloration back.

I personally do not see an advantage of pellets over soluble organics such as vinegar.

How about set and forget? Get the flow right and forget about it for a few to several months-- that be one mighty huge advantage to me.

 

[DarkXerox]

So I'm giving up on the pellets. While nitrates have been brought to a super low level (<0.1ppm), I still get cyano elsewhere in the tank. It's been at this low level for almost a year, yet I still have cyano all over. Never had cyano before this year either. I agree with Randy, the carbon or the bacteria themselves are not being sequestered. I'm down to about .5cm of pellets in a 29g and my last experiment will be to see if keeping a very small amount will balance things out. Otherwise I'm switching the reactor to GFO in the future. Lost too many corals during this experiment and only gained a lot of sponges.

I also need to add that providing amino acids such as Aspartate and Glutamate didn't help shift consumption of phosphate fast enough to counteract the cyano's accelerated growth.

 

[flyin2jz]

Ive had mine online for about 2 weeks. Very little brown on the glass now and it looks like the cyno ive had is turning brownish and getting stringy like its receding. Now i am also using microbe lift along with starting the pellets so im honestly not sure which is helping the most. Sps corals are getting alot more color and are starting to grow better but i must add that i also starting dosing 2 part at the same time also. I refuse to do water changes for my cyano. Every time ive done them the stuff goes crazy like its something in the water. I have new ro filters but do not have a di cartridge. I dont have one because ive had tanks set up before that have never had cyano and my water is obviously from the same supply it was before. My neighbor also is fed from the same supply as i am and he has zero cyno so its not the water coming into the house. I do have a tds meter coming to check it just for fun. Overall i believe the pellets help a bit but am not totally convinced its just the pellets.

 

[tntneon]

I'm not sure I accept that difference. How can folks get cyano growing remotely from the pellets if they are not releasing organics, and if they are, how is it different?

hi Randy ,

The big difference in carbon dosing with pellets is the fact that you don't have to be there , for instannce if you go on a holiday you still have a carbon supplement w/o you being there.

-In the past when i only dosed vinegar / ethanol things really looked good too . but when going on holiday (2 weeks ) and then coming back was a whole other story :hmm4:
Lots of algea + white branches on acropora , this i never experienced with pellets.

greetingzz tntneon

 

[Scej12]

Nooooooo......!!!!

Nooooooo......!!!!

So I'm giving up on the pellets. While nitrates have been brought to a super low level (<0.1ppm), I still get cyano elsewhere in the tank. It's been at this low level for almost a year, yet I still have cyano all over. Never had cyano before this year either. I agree with Randy, the carbon or the bacteria themselves are not being sequestered. I'm down to about .5cm of pellets in a 29g and my last experiment will be to see if keeping a very small amount will balance things out. Otherwise I'm switching the reactor to GFO in the future. Lost too many corals during this experiment and only gained a lot of sponges.

I also need to add that providing amino acids such as Aspartate and Glutamate didn't help shift consumption of phosphate fast enough to counteract the cyano's accelerated growth.

.....don't leave my friend... I too am having issues with cyano. I've suggested in the past that it has at least some relationship with pH. I licked a couple of outbreaks in the past (one on a vodka system, and the other on bp); but have unfortunately had a relapse on the bp. The vodka system is still fairly cyano-free (maybe just a few small traces)... Here are the params of each:

Vodka System
NO3: 15ppm (and dropping after a short break from EtOH [was 0ppm 4 mos ago]
PO4: .34ppm
dKH: 7.5
Ca: 420
SG: 1.025
pH: 8.05 - 8.15

Biopellet System
NO3: 0-2ppm
PO4: 0.07ppm
dKH: 7.5
Ca: 460 (due to pH; see below **)
SG: 1.025
pH: 7.80 - 7.95

** As a result of pH reaching as low as 7.8ish, calcium has been rising from 420 even though no calcium has been dosed in any form.

I've spent a good couple of hours today blowing cyano off he rocks and vacuuming up the matting on the substrate (via a water-change routine); and have now re-instituted a lot of splashing at the point of entry into the sump from the DT. This usually raises the pH up to about 8.08-8.18 or so. I believe this raised pH was coincidental with my previous success in licking the cyano problem of the past.

It is a known fact by now that the bp as well as any other system of carbon dosing does have a lowering effect on overall pH. The pellets respirate just like any other type of fauna in my opinion, and in terms of biomass, the bacteria sustained by carbon dosing can quite conceivably pose the single largest impact on your system's respiration cycle. Remember, the bacteria population created by these pellets utilize C, N, P, and O, and as far as I can guess, anything that respirates O, exhausts CO2, thus the drop in your pH.

In a nutrient low system such as created by your biopellets, cyano bacteria... the fauna that has the ability to photosynthesize (which is a process dependent on CO2) in my unscientific opinion becomes top scavenger of excess organics and other useful trace elements.

I seriously think that the difference between a system successfully running carbon dosing (whether bp or liquid form) without cyano consequences, and that which is riddled with cyano consequences has mostly to do with the address of CO2... My pellet system has an admittedly undersized skimmer, and no refugium... I am therefore going to attempt other means of CO2 expulsion, i.e. lots of splashing, and perhaps even re-instituting a biotower since nitrates are no longer an issue.

If my current mini experiment goes well, I will be able to maintain a pH above 8.1, and hopefully will be able to report another successful battle against cyanobacteria...

Hang on in there Dark Xerox. Give me a couple more weeks to confirm this theory. Will post the results.

Regards,

Sheldon

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The big difference in carbon dosing with pellets is the fact that you don't have to be there , for instannce if you go on a holiday you still have a carbon supplement w/o you being there.



I dose with a dosing pump on a timer that draws from a 1 gallon container of vinegar, so it runs when I am not around.