N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[Moser]

But I tend to agree with "daveonbass" (and with the chemguru Randy) that you should not need to "jumpstart" N/P pellets with bacteria.

Agreed, in most cases you don't need to.

I have used them for nearly 7 months. I didn't jump start them, I just left them for a few months and didn't test anything. Then one day BLAM. I tested and nitrates were zero for the first time in the history of the tank.

Posphates were up to 0.5, so I added rowaphos and that came down. I tested yesterday after 3 weeks in case I needed to change out and phos measures zero. I might leave for another week and remove and then wait for a rise. If they go back up, then add some rowaphos, if they don't, then obviously the pellets are holding them!.

Last 2 months I have added Zeo and colours are starting to pop nicely, with great polyp extension.

I just did what it said on the tin. No increased water changes, no fiddling with the tank, no adjustments to flow etc etc.

They can work, but if they need supplementing with bacteria etc, then so be it. My guess is that most pellet companies who wish to capitalise on this will introduce a bacterial supplement and subsquently a few trace solutions.

I hear that Brightwell have introduced some pellets too and given they already do the NeoZeo and many use microbacter already, they have the whole pellet system ready to market and should blow this side of the market out of the water.

If I were Chris Brightwell, I would add the introductory pellet system to the catalogue with the intermediate system being addition of elements and the advanced system remaining the zeolite based system.

Nobody else is as well placed as Brightwell to deliver on this IMO.

Mo

 

[jlinzmaier]

Nobody else is as well placed as Brightwell to deliver on this IMO.

Mo

Before you jump on the Brightwell bandwagon here's a link to Randy's comments on Brightwell products.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1762160&highlight=brightwell

Randy doesn't provide just an opinion, but rather completely shows how Chris is incorrect in the marketing claims of his products and how incorrect Chris is on the information he posts as facts. Good marketing and talking in scientific terms doesn't mean anything if what you're stating is wrong.

Just an FYI for those of us who get caught up in marketing hype (myself included). Good marketing is a bad thing for reefers!

Jeremy

 

[tntneon]

...

Last 2 months I have added Zeo and colours are starting to pop nicely, with great polyp extension...
Mo

hi Moser ,

do you mean you have added zeo stones to your reactor , or do you use the whole list of zeo products in combination with BP's ?

greetingzz tntneon

 

[daveonbass]

well I can take a hint...from now on I will only post what I AM doing...I'll leave the "discussion" to the people that are in the "working" club.

right now I restarted them up again for the second time. The first time was after one day off and allowed to get cloudy, didn't work. This second time is after two days off and clouding up...and the next will be three days gone.

after that I will see what SWC recommends me to do...

 

[philbo32]

Hi Daveonbass,

To be honest, I can't see that adding more pellets will help at all, and the cloudiness you have described within your pellet reactor sounds like bacteria and/or fungi, but likely not the correct type of bacteria because as you have stated nitrate is the same.

I know the manufacturers haven't recommended this so you'll probably ignore me, but you could try running the pump to the reactor on a timer going off every couple of hours and then on for a couple of hours (like with zeovit when you start dosing). This allows the reactor to go anaerobic without it going anoxic (obviously you don't want it to go anoxic and cause sulphate bacteria) to give the anaerobic denitifying bacteria a more favorable environment for nitrate reduction, just a thought. To begin with I would try intervals of off for 1 hour and on for 1 hour for a few days and see if anything happens parameters wise.

 

[daveonbass]

it's worth a shot, I'll run all these ideas by SWC and see what they recommend. Who knows, I wouldn't be surprised if their next idea is to dose MB7.

 

[Moser]

Before you jump on the Brightwell bandwagon here's a link to Randy's comments on Brightwell products.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1762160&highlight=brightwell

Randy doesn't provide just an opinion, but rather completely shows how Chris is incorrect in the marketing claims of his products and how incorrect Chris is on the information he posts as facts. Good marketing and talking in scientific terms doesn't mean anything if what you're stating is wrong.

Just an FYI for those of us who get caught up in marketing hype (myself included). Good marketing is a bad thing for reefers!

Jeremy

Wow!,

He isn't popular with them is he?

Mo

 

[Moser]

hi Moser ,

do you mean you have added zeo stones to your reactor , or do you use the whole list of zeo products in combination with BP's ?

greetingzz tntneon

Hi,

I haven't used the basic zeo 4 as the pellets take care of that.

I have been slowly introducing the rest of the additives though.

Mo

 

[TheFishMan65]

I think some of you are missing the point. Daveonbass is following what SWC recommends. Do you know better than them? If and when they give up aI am sure Dave will be willing to try some of your suggestions.

Sorry, but I think you all are being a little hard on Dave.

 

[sirreal63]

I think some of you are missing the point. Daveonbass is following what SWC recommends. Do you know better than them? If and when they give up aI am sure Dave will be willing to try some of your suggestions.

Sorry, but I think you all are being a little hard on Dave.

Have you read from the beginning? SWC isn't the first brand of pellets he has tried. He has been knocking them from the beginning, but I do understand some of his frustration, but before the SWC, he flat out refused to try anything other just adding the pellets, would not try and feed the bacteria to spur growth, he felt they should just work no matter what, which isn't real world. I give him credit for sticking with it though and I think he finally understands that it isn't a perfect solution and that it is a product with no clinical testing or R&D and no one as of yet has the answer why it works in some tanks and not others. I am not hard on him, I actually want to figure out why they don't work for him because it will help someone else down the road.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I have read this thread and several others. And I admiy that I am at a loss to understand his problem. Perhaps ealrier he should have tried something else. And he did rice. Now he is stritly following the manufactureers personal direction and it seems people are the harshest on him now. At this pont IMHO he is doing the right thing - exactly what the manufacturers says (at least as he understands it).

I should hope they have a better chance of solving hs problems then we do. If not I have to wonder if they really understand their products.

 

[sirreal63]

You do realize that SWC is not the manufacturer of this product, just a distributor and they are as clueless as the rest of us are? They are using him for discovery, the only difference is we are hobbyists and they seek a profit.

 

[daveonbass]

woah! Have YOU read from the beginning?.

SWC is the "second of two" brands that I've tried and not once have I WANTED to knock them from the beginning. I actually bought them, that's proof right there that I want them to work. What is wrong with you guy...can you not see that I of all people want them to work more than anything? I hate that I have an aquarium investment that has no use...its just not working, therefore not useful in my tank. The only timeive refused to try anything is either NOW, that I'm usingsomeone elses pelets and want to do as they tell me, or BEFORE, when I did try stuff that was possible for me to try. If it involved spending any more money then I just can't do it...right now I have no spare money. If someone wants to send me a whole bottle od bacteria then I'd be happy to use it...but I can't afford to order more stuff right now, and no one local even sells marine stuff.

my tank is stable and dandy, I'm not worried about it anymore, and yes...doing large WC's has helped to maintain that stability. My corals are no longer dying and growth is better than ever in the tank...BUT...the BP still do nothing to combat my N levels. As far as not having any other proof of my P levels...again, sorry I can't afford another expensive gadget for my tank. Al I have is what's available.

I HAVE followed this thread for a long time now...over a year. So don't put the wrong words in my mouth please...

...by the way...still no change.

 

[TheFishMan65]

No I did not realize that so thank you for pointing that out. However, I would like to hope that a distributor has a direct line of contact with the manufacturer and would not be supplying false information. I would also hope that a distributor has at least as much knowledge as we do. If not I would wonder why they are still in business. Perhaps there mofive is profit, but if they can't solve the problem do you really think they will gain a profit. I would think their irinterest in a success for Dave is much larger than ours.

 

[daveonbass]

You do realize that SWC is not the manufacturer of this product, just a distributor and they are as clueless as the rest of us are? They are using him for discovery, the only difference is we are hobbyists and they seek a profit.

correct. They are a distributor of an american made polymer. They are playing the guessing game with us all. BUT there is no monitary value in it for them. They were gracious enough to send me some pellets in the hopes that their product would work...so far no dice. So no one is gaining anything but info from this endevor...(unless they work, then I gain something finally )

 

[TheFishMan65]

I am confused who what is SWC just to clarify please. I have one saying it is a distributor and Dave (if I understand) saying it is a brand (which I read a s manufacturer or redistributor, but someone that shold be knowlegable).

I realize (or at least as I understand) all these pellets where made for another use and we (the salt water folks) just found them.

[EDIT]
Posted (or tried) before Dave's last one). I think the question (at least for me) is are they the repackager (in which case they should be knowledgable) or just a store.

 

[sirreal63]

Dave, I have tried to help you in this quest for a while, and will continue to do so, even if you frustrate me at times. And yes SWC does have a monetary stake in the product, don't think that little amount they sent you hurt them in the least. It was just testing to see if their product was really any different than the BP one. I know you are smarter than to think there was no monetary value for them, they don't distribute products at their cost, they are a business.

I am just hopeful that when they cut you lose you will drop a little sugar or vinegar in the tank, things you should have in the kitchen already, to try and get the right bacteria primed and munching on those pellets.

 

[daveonbass]

SWC is SaltWaterConnection. It is a dot com business that decided to buy and resell their own form of pellets. It's both a distrubuter and a brand per say.

the true "manufacturer" of the pellets that they sell is just a regular plastics maker in the states. They could care less what we do with them, much less what happens in my tank. :/

 

[bertoni]

I don't understand why bacteria or vinegar should help the situation, personally. Bacteria tend to come for free, and the pellets have been in the tank long enough that I suspect there's some growth on them. What would be the purpose of adding another form of carbon?

 

[daveonbass]

but keep in mind that EVERYONE is a "repackager" of these BP. This is NOT what they were created/intended for.