N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[PSam]

tntneon, which set up is the same? The TLF reactor or the drain hose? I saw you started in drain hose area, but I'm only on page 4 of the thread now....

I have the same options open, drain or TLF reactor, and want to start them this weekend.

-It`s the same set-up as i have , and it works well for me.

 

[tntneon]

tntneon, which set up is the same? The TLF reactor or the drain hose? I saw you started in drain hose area, but I'm only on page 4 of the thread now....

I have the same options open, drain or TLF reactor, and want to start them this weekend.

-The drain hose system is working well for me , i don`t have any build up of detrius and pellets are swirling gently.
Just be sure that your drain pipe doesn`t suck any air bubbles into the BP containment , those bubbles can blow the pellets over the top of the containment (vaze , drainbox ,...).
-I only have to use 300ml of BP `s on my little system , i don`t know how this works out when you have use serveral liters of BP`s.
Then it`s better to use tatuvaaj`s idea and let the flow enters like he did (from the bottom to the top) , by using a pump that forces the water through the media (BP) .


greetingzz tntneon

 

[PSam]

Thanks for the info - I have a similar sized setup, so particularly interested in how it was working for you. I think I may go the reactor route, just because I have one laying around and I have the space. Also, I might have missed it, but did you start with 300ml or work your way up? From instructions, I think I need to start 100 - 150ml.

 

[tatuvaaj]

So what are the dims on that reactor/ how many bags of pellets are you using?

It's 75 cm tall, 10 cm diameter. There's about 4 liters BPs in it (I think, I didn't measure )

 

[tntneon]

Thanks for the info - I have a similar sized setup, so particularly interested in how it was working for you. I think I may go the reactor route, just because I have one laying around and I have the space. Also, I might have missed it, but did you start with 300ml or work your way up? From instructions, I think I need to start 100 - 150ml.

-If i had a reaoctor lying around , i probably would do the same .
I`ve worked my way up to about 250 ~300 ml in a 35 g system , in a couple of month`s.
But if you have an refugium and want to keep your macro`s healty i would stay at the recommended dose , because once NO3 is around zero , the chaeto in my case starts to become brittle.
Therefore i stopped every supplemental dosage of carbon , vit C , sugar and prodebio so that my NO3 can climb a little bit up to 0.1 ~0.2 ppm .


greetingzz tntneon

 

[Whalehead9]

I have been following this thread for a while. I am not sure that I have learned much other than to use a reactor at the rate of about 1 liter per 100 gallons. A good skimmer while running BPs is a must.

1. Are they better at reducing PO4, or NO3?
2. Should I use GFO, or GAC in conjunction with the pellets? In the beginning, or continue use while running the BPs indefinitely?
3. do additional pro-biotic additions help?
4. cyanobacteria, seems to be a drawback of this system. What is the best course of action to eliminate it?

 

[teesquare]

Whale:
I have been subscribed to the thread from the beginning - and I do not profess to know it all by any means. But- here is my understanding:

NP pellets offer the aquarist the advantages of vodka dosing ( nutrient reduction) in a more convenient format. They eliminate the daily measure and dose routine.
There does still seem to be the issue with cyanobacteria ( slime algae ) - but no more or less than with vodka.
I believe there are threads that explain how to deal with the slime alae, and rid the tank of that thru better understanding the causes. Some conjecture on my part - but I believe it is from too much organic carbon introduced too fast into a system that still has some nutrient load at a level slightly higher than optimal for the the given system.
I know that is a very "nebulous" response. It is a touchy-feely method as much or more than the "pure chemistry" methods that many of us use other-wise to run our systems.

Hope This Helps-
T

 

[PSam]

No chaeto, 0.25 Phosphate and 15-20ppm NO3...

-If i had a reaoctor lying around , i probably would do the same .
I`ve worked my way up to about 250 ~300 ml in a 35 g system , in a couple of month`s.
But if you have an refugium and want to keep your macro`s healty i would stay at the recommended dose , because once NO3 is around zero , the chaeto in my case starts to become brittle.
Therefore i stopped every supplemental dosage of carbon , vit C , sugar and prodebio so that my NO3 can climb a little bit up to 0.1 ~0.2 ppm .

 

[DevilBoy]

I did not read the full thread, but i have been wondering can this be used in a filter media bag? Or does it have to be placed in a phosban reactor like a two little fishies reactor? Also if placed in a reactor what type of pump should be used?

 

[bosshog]

I tried in a media bag in the back of a nano cube. In about 2 weeks it was all stuck together with mulm. Built a DIY reactor and have not looked back since.

 

[frank40]

I have been using the BP for 2 weeks now, I have 2 ltrs in a Geo 420 reactor being fed by a "T" in my return line. I am also running Rowa. My initial startup readings were: Phos .02(Hanna) and trates .2(salifert). After 1 week my trates dropped to 0 phos remained at .02, i then proceeded to remove all the algae in my fuge.
On the second week trates still at 0 but phos dropped to .01 I am taking the GFO offline to see if the BP will handle my tank on its own.

 

[Bzar]

Interesting situation here. I've been using BP for about 3 months now. They are in a BRS reactor fed by a 200 gph rio powerhead. for the first couple months they were tumbling in the reactor, and I was rocking 0 nitrates. Three weeks ago I noticed the BP's stopped tumbling. I thought it was just mulm buildup and so I took them out and mixed them around, would often shake up the reactor and stuff trying to get them tumbling again. There was flow going through, but didn't seem as much as before.

Then the other day I noticed I had a lot more pods then usual and thought to check my nitrates....sure enough reading was 5!!! so I took the reactor offline again and found some pellets stuck in the outlet hindering the flow, causing the lack of tumble, etc. So I'm hoping that with the reactor working right the nitrates will come down again. Moral of the story seems to be keep good flow on the pellets. I've since modded the reactor with the needle point mesh from walmart to ensure no more stuck pellets, and I'll also be getting a more powerful pump for added flow.

 

[tatuvaaj]

Bzar,

I have couple of times "cleaned" the pellets by mixing them around like you did and every time nitrate concentration has increased (temporarily).

I have tried BPs bot in high flow "fluidizing" setup and in a lower, more steady flow. If anything, the low flow setup has been more efficient in reducing NO3. Maybe denitrification is enhanced in lower flow setup (thick biofilm) versus higher rate of biomass generation in a fluidizing setup (constant POC availability)?

 

[HighlandReefer]

If the low flow creates thicker biofilms, then I would agree that this would be more conducive to the anaerobic bacteria, since thicker biofilms contain more anaerobic bacteria. Some research indicates that biofilms larger than 300 microns is the size where flow does not effect the anaerobics further.

 

[thejuggernaut]

Well would it be better to keep them at low flow then several times a week turn the flow up to turn them and clean them off?

 

[Bzar]

Hmmm interesting. All I know is that when my 200gph was reduced due to the blockage in the reactor, and the tumbling totally stopped, my nitrates went up. I never had a real violent tumble with 200gph through that reactor when there was no blockage...at its best there was a gentle movement. Curious, are we now saying that...

1) no movement of pellets = inefficient
2) too much movement of pellets = inefficient
3) gentle movement with constant flow = best

might be, might be. I'll test no3 again in a few days to see if the returned gentle tumble I usually have creates a reduction in my level 5 nitrates.

Side note: with the increase in NO3 I have a lot more pods and the corals have better color, and much increased polyp extention...??

 

[tatuvaaj]

Well would it be better to keep them at low flow then several times a week turn the flow up to turn them and clean them off?

I'm not sure if it is any better but it probably wouldn't hurt either as long as you don't clean them too well

That's actually what I did several months: I manually stirred the pellets 3 or 4 times a week. Worked great and some of my invertebrates really loved the larger bacterial aggregates!

The biggest problem with low flow IMHO is that as the bacterial biomass builds up inside the filter it becomes more and more efficient mechanical filter, trapping stuff that would probably be best to export through skimmer (or feed animals).

 

[HighlandReefer]

I would assume that the reactor can be run to produce more aerobic bacteria (faster flow), where bacteria would be removed by skimming or the reactor could be run to produce more anaerobic bacteria, which you would have to physically removed bacteria to export (slow flow). Of course it could also be run as a combination of both (perhaps a medium flow). Personally, I see a lot of possibilities as to which method would reduce nitrate the best and a lot may bear on which species of bacteria are present. :lol:

 

[HighlandReefer]

One other possibility that comes to mind would be if you attached another chamber containing old GAC after the N/P pellet reactor. This may allow more harborage for anaerobic bacterial biofilms. Perhaps use a straight through the top flow to prevent blockage of the water. Cleaning this chamber would not need to be done as frequently. The flow through the N/P reactor would be speeded up in this case.

 

[kaskiles]

I would run the reactor normally at flow just under the point where the top surface of the pellets were bouncing. Then once per night, open the ball valve enough to make all of them jump up and jump around (but not blow out the reactor), maybe 1 minute or less bouncing. Then adjust back down to normal flow.

This would be more like the cleaning the zeovit reactors, let the bacteria work on the surface, then purge it. Some systems might respond to one purge per day, other less, other more.