N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[joe blo]

is anybody using filter socks with the bp's? i use 200 micron filter socks and they clog in one day. how are we supposed to use gfo without sponges?

 

[bluereefs]

Bluereefs,
I would be interested in hearing how your friends tank fairs. Please keep us updated. My biggest disappointment was losing a pair of Rhomboid wrasses that I had kept for over a year. Expense aside, they were very hard to find.

I will call him today. His aquarium get crystal clear next day after he stop the using bp and get cloudy after he start to use him again. But he did not washed the bp inside the reactor during the pause, bp can create substantial bacterial bio mass in very short period, particulary in still water inside the reactor, when he start reactor again bacterial mass from reactor get in the aquarium. Now he stop bp again but I told him to wash them this time prior new starting. Will see what result he get now, cloudy water or no.

 

[stevedola]

I would liked to have known of this issue before hand. I cant believe that its an isolated issue with only a few tanks. The more and more I post, the more people come out and say it happened to them. These pellets are being passed off as fail proof but there seems to be issues that arise with certain tanks. I know my fathers tank had high nutrients, large bioload, and an algea problem but I was told by the posts that this product would help with those issues and reduce N/P. I know its relitively a young product but in the 6 mths of posting little has been discussed or explained as to why and trouble shooting until recently. Im not condemning the pellets only suggesting full discloseur. On the contrary Ill most likely be setting them up on my 60g when I get around to it however with what I hope is full awareness of what problems can arise. I dont expect the same issues but atleast I know and thats all I would have asked the manufactuer to supply to its consumer.

 

[rbonick]

I did a google search using np biopellets + cloudy water and there were a few hits on other reef boards. No mention of live stock loss but others have experienced this situation.

 

[reefkeeper2]

Stevedola,
I would guess that it's a bacterial bloom caused by the excessive high nutients. Fish loss would be because of lack of O2 (because the tremendous bacterial growth is sucking it all up) and pH dips. Small fish would survive over larger fish. Remove some of the pellets, and then add them slowly over days or weeks. Do everything you can to aerate the water. Pumps, airstones etc. especially at night. There must be some people in the BRS near you with air pumps you can borrow, or go buy a cheap one at Petsmart. If you have a spare powerhead, throw it in the sump and vent it so it makes bubbles. Try to get outside air into the room where the tank is. Open a window a crack. Watch the pH, again especially at night.

 

[DJREEF]

I would liked to have known of this issue before hand. I cant believe that its an isolated issue with only a few tanks. The more and more I post, the more people come out and say it happened to them. These pellets are being passed off as fail proof but there seems to be issues that arise with certain tanks. I know my fathers tank had high nutrients, large bioload, and an algea problem but I was told by the posts that this product would help with those issues and reduce N/P. I know its relitively a young product but in the 6 mths of posting little has been discussed or explained as to why and trouble shooting until recently. Im not condemning the pellets only suggesting full discloseur. On the contrary Ill most likely be setting them up on my 60g when I get around to it however with what I hope is full awareness of what problems can arise. I dont expect the same issues but atleast I know and thats all I would have asked the manufactuer to supply to its consumer.

Once again, I have to reiterate - You guys are early adopters (ie Guinea Pigs). All of the issues that have arisen have never happened before. Documentation of these issues is necessary to form a fact based opinion to whether this media is viable and relevant to our hobby, and a workable stand in to liquid carbon dosing. Just keep posting. The truth will eventually distill out from the aggregate experience.

DJ

 

[Bzar]

rutz81: I use MB7 with mine. it's great, and keeps the water SUPER clear. My tank is 2 feet wide and I can see the back wall as clear as it was sitting in front of my face. When I forget the MB7 for a few days I get a little cloudiness...then a few drops and bam back to crystal. I try to add 4 - 10 drops a day in my 100 gal net system...after the initial startup. I miss days often :O

smokey30: Can't hurt either way. Personally I'd wait till the nitrites are done. I occasionally run a bit of GFO in a seperate reactor and it seems to keep things spot on before challenges arise. Reactor 1 = biopellets. Reactor 2 = GFO & GAC one month (seperated by a sponge) and just GAC the next month. I dose MB7, couple drops of Lugols each week, big 3, and brightwell amino's.

rbonick: "You could also try moving your powerheads to create more surface turbulence."

That helps A LOT....surface agitation, and no tank lids really helps the oxygen and water clarity. Probiotic systems need good oxygen exchange...hell reef tanks in general do best with good o2 exchange to remove gasses. I get cloudy water when I agitate my BP reactor from time to time for about an hour. Corals seem to love it when that happens, fish don't seem to care. Maybe it's the O2 exchange I have...but it's important...think of the sea...it's constantly splashing and getting oxygen thrust into it.

joe blo: I'm using 200 micron mesh socks....no problems with clogging. Not sure what you mean about GFO...but I hope you're not adding GFO to a BP reactor

 

[AquariumSpecialty]

Note from the manufacturer to help the few that are having some cloudy tank issues...

It looks like there are a few people with huge amounts of NO3 in their system, that in combination with the BioPellets (maybe too many BioPellets initially) and dosing additional carbon like vodka a bacteria bloom occurs which lowers the oxygen levels of the tank. The solution, start with less pellets, and/or a larger skimmer".

If the skimmer is well matched with the aquarium then the skimmer is a non-issue and it's a matter of reducing the amount of NP Biopellets that you use initially (for those few that are seeing cloudy water). Changes for the better are great but rapid changes can sometimes hurt the animals you are trying to help. Hope this information helps.

 

[rbonick]

Note from the manufacturer to help the few that are having some cloudy tank issues...

It looks like there are a few people with huge amounts of NO3 in their system, that in combination with the BioPellets (maybe too many BioPellets initially) and dosing additional carbon like vodka a bacteria bloom occurs which lowers the oxygen levels of the tank. The solution, start with less pellets, and/or a larger skimmer".

If the skimmer is well matched with the aquarium then the skimmer is a non-issue and it's a matter of reducing the amount of NP Biopellets that you use initially (for those few that are seeing cloudy water). Changes for the better are great but rapid changes can sometimes hurt the animals you are trying to help. Hope this information helps.

Scott,

thanks for the feedback. In my case nitrates were already on the low side (less than 5 ppm using the Elos test kit) but I was following the Brightwell MB7 and Biofuel regimen. The manufacturer might want to include these cautionary notes in their instructions. Once again, I am not bashing the product. I think there is great potential for this product and will continue to use it.

Rich

 

[rbonick]

rutz81: I use MB7 with mine. it's great, and keeps the water SUPER clear. My tank is 2 feet wide and I can see the back wall as clear as it was sitting in front of my face. When I forget the MB7 for a few days I get a little cloudiness...then a few drops and bam back to crystal. I try to add 4 - 10 drops a day in my 100 gal net system...after the initial startup. I miss days often :O

smokey30: Can't hurt either way. Personally I'd wait till the nitrites are done. I occasionally run a bit of GFO in a seperate reactor and it seems to keep things spot on before challenges arise. Reactor 1 = biopellets. Reactor 2 = GFO & GAC one month (seperated by a sponge) and just GAC the next month. I dose MB7, couple drops of Lugols each week, big 3, and brightwell amino's.

rbonick: "You could also try moving your powerheads to create more surface turbulence."

That helps A LOT....surface agitation, and no tank lids really helps the oxygen and water clarity. Probiotic systems need good oxygen exchange...hell reef tanks in general do best with good o2 exchange to remove gasses. I get cloudy water when I agitate my BP reactor from time to time for about an hour. Corals seem to love it when that happens, fish don't seem to care. Maybe it's the O2 exchange I have...but it's important...think of the sea...it's constantly splashing and getting oxygen thrust into it.

joe blo: I'm using 200 micron mesh socks....no problems with clogging. Not sure what you mean about GFO...but I hope you're not adding GFO to a BP reactor

Bzar,
if you have ever seen the movie "the perfect storm' then you would have an idea of what the top of my water looks like. I am running 2 mp40s and 2 Tunze 6100s in a 36 by 36 tank. Only reason I mention this is despite this amount of flow, the bloom was severe enough to cause fish loss. Just a cautionary note. If this happens in anyone's tank, please keep a close eye on your livestock for signs of distress.

 

[Canadian]

One simple tenet of reefkeeping for people to keep in mind: Anything you add to your reef that can produce a change for the good also has the potential to create change for the worse.

Biopellets are not a panacea.

With that said I've been using them for a couple months and have not experienced any negatives. I also haven't experienced any positives. In fact I don't see any mulm being produced by my pellets.

 

[joe blo]

joe blo: I'm using 200 micron mesh socks....no problems with clogging. Not sure what you mean about GFO...but I hope you're not adding GFO to a BP reactor




i mean my sponges are being clogged in the gfo reactor, the gfo and biopellets are in separate reactors

 

[chercm]

i am running of the filter bag- 500ml ( tank is 100gallons with Deltec AP701) but there is no cloudiness as i left it at the second compartment and my fishes and sps are ok but there is cotton algae which is the hardest to remove

my no3 is 0 , running rowa, Deltec NR509 Sulphur reactor and sander ozone

 

[stevedola]

Stevedola,
I would guess that it's a bacterial bloom caused by the excessive high nutients. Fish loss would be because of lack of O2 (because the tremendous bacterial growth is sucking it all up) and pH dips. Small fish would survive over larger fish. Remove some of the pellets, and then add them slowly over days or weeks. Do everything you can to aerate the water. Pumps, airstones etc. especially at night. There must be some people in the BRS near you with air pumps you can borrow, or go buy a cheap one at Petsmart. If you have a spare powerhead, throw it in the sump and vent it so it makes bubbles. Try to get outside air into the room where the tank is. Open a window a crack. Watch the pH, again especially at night.

Thanks everyone for the info. I too figured it was a Ph drop and added a floor fan with a window open to help. The air stone has been running since it first turned cloudy. I am happy to report that the water has dramatically cleared up today and the wrasse that was laying on the bottom has turned around for the better. May have been a combo of the fan/window and turning down the flow for the pellets or the bloom finally running down but it appears to stablizing. The tank is 90g with 20g sump so from the manufacturers own recommendations the tank is capable of handling 500ml but I think they were right about the NO3 being very high seeing that the tank has been riddled with HA for a while now. Going forward I hope people see the posts and know what to do if things start getting cloudy. I am in no way trying to deter people from using this product only trying to educate from my experience.

so heres what seemed to help turn my tank around without deaths:
1- airstone
2- turn down flow through reactor
3- fan with open window blowing into sump

Im sure other methods would be useful (ie pump pointed at surface) but these are what helped this situation. Thanks for the help...happy reefin' all. Ill keep you all posted.

 

[rbonick]

Stevedola,
glad to hear the wrasse is OK

 

[tatuvaaj]

In fact I don't see any mulm being produced by my pellets.

That must be one of the best problems anyone can have because it means there's very little dissolved nitrogen and/or phosphorous in the water :thumbsup:

 

[ksed]

The bacteria should still grow as the carbon source is the BP.
Your limiting factor would be the carbon source.
Please correct me if I am wrong!

 

[tatuvaaj]

The bacteria should still grow as the carbon source is the BP.
Your limiting factor would be the carbon source.
Please correct me if I am wrong!

Kevin,

Bacteria are not carbon limited when growing on BPs The growth might be limited by trace elements needed for enzymes but I don't know if that is likely scenario in a reef aquarium.

 

[SimonSKL]

I had a close call last night. If I didn't take any action last night and went to bed, I would have a tank of dead fish:sad1:. This thread saved my tank!

I have a 92g tank with a total water volume of about 100g. I started using the BP last night and used about 500ml. Within two hours after I started, my RKE PH alarm tripped meaning at one point my PH must have dropped to or below 7.8. Before BP, it was 8.25. However, the controller still displayed 8.1 so I didn't think too much about it and reset the alarm.

Just before midnight, the PH alarm tripped again and the display showed 8.05 and dropping fast. Thanks to Stevedola's post I quickly dialed back the flow rate thru my reactor and increased the flow rate thru my ATS. I also opened up my canopy and sump doors to get as much free air circulation to my tank. Finally the PH stablized at 8.07 before I went to bed at 1a:worried:. I woke up this morning at 5.30a and the PH alarm had never tripped again and was at 8.05. The fish seemed to be okay. Whew!!

I didn't think the bacteria can grow so fast. I thought this system will take 2-4 weeks to work. I must have pretty high nutrient level for the bacteria to grow so rapidly. However, I measured my P&N earlier yesterday and they were both zero. I still have some GHA in several spots. I have been running a ATS and GFO for several months and started vodka dosing about 12 days ago.

Lesson learned: watch your PH after you start your BP and be able to dial back your flow rate. As Steveloda mentioned earlier, have something to aerate your water like airstone.

 

[euromomtx]

Wow. I figured nobody could feed more heavily than I do!
I run 1000ml in a Nextreef reactor on a 125g tank. Never had any cloudiness issues.
But I also don't dose any other carbon sources.
And I do have a CO2 scrubber on my skimmer (even before pellets)