N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[daveonbass]

I have a quick question. If this is a "solid" form of vodka dosing...then how long does it take to see results from "liquid" dosing? Is it like instant? I only ask because I have never tried the liquid method...couldn't keep up with the daily schedule...and it seems that everyone here is asking how long it takes for this method to work...and I'm getting this vibe that the liquid method is a lot faster. Where as this is so far a little hit or miss. Some people see good results in the average amount of time (about a month), others take longer and the results are minimal, and some seem to be experiencing BAD results...

again the best I have had happen is that my levels stay put...but they havent come down yet (so at least they are not rising)...but to me that is a long time just to see minimal results...

So far I'm not completely sold on these things...but I'm going to see what more time produces.

 

[ChuckG]

so I have 350 gallons of water and I am agressively tumbling 2 leters of the pellets. I have had it running this was for about 3 weeks. I have seen no improvement and in fact the algae seems more prevelent. I have cyno which I have never had before. I dont feed much, 3 times a week and lately I have increased my water changes....

any ideas?

Thanks Frank

I have not seen cyano with this product. Im not saying it is not causing it but if it is then it would only be a contributor along with your overal imbalance between nutrient import and export. When your nutrient import and/or storage levels are higher than your export methods that when algae and cyano bloom.

If I was in your shoes I would:

1) Make sure my RO/DI unit was filtering properly

2) Regularly seed beneficial bacteria. Allthough the benefits are debatable I have see this make a difference in my tank.

3) Find your tanks sweet spot for flow through the reactor. If high flow is not providing the results you expect then I'd try a slow rolling boil type flow.

4) Manaually prune back the algae so it competes less with the pellets in the reactor while bacteria in the reactor are being cultured.

5) Take a close look at the history of the rock to determine if it might have stored phosphates in its mass. If there is any possibility that it has and is leaching phosphate back into the water column then I'd run GFO concurrently with the bio pellets at least until PO4 levels out to low reading. This could require changing the media frequently (every 24-48 hrs) and take quite a while to acomplish depending on how satruated the rocks might be. There is a post in this forum that details how to regenerate GFO which I would look at to save money if it needed to be changed out every few days.

 

[180+55reef]

thanks!

I did/do most of what u suggested. I changed my GFO about an hour ago.

I have a Lot of cotton candy RED algae, that I cant get rid of (frag tank on frag rack).. This of course is not due to the pellets.

I also have chaeto and calererpa in seperate tanks (same system)

I will slow down the flow, thanks

There is no hair algae in my display, a few "green balls of algae"

The green balls are very strange and I havent read about this anyway

 

[ChuckG]

I have a quick question. If this is a "solid" form of vodka dosing...then how long does it take to see results from "liquid" dosing? Is it like instant? I only ask because I have never tried the liquid method...couldn't keep up with the daily schedule...and it seems that everyone here is asking how long it takes for this method to work...and I'm getting this vibe that the liquid method is a lot faster. Where as this is so far a little hit or miss. Some people see good results in the average amount of time (about a month), others take longer and the results are minimal, and some seem to be experiencing BAD results...

again the best I have had happen is that my levels stay put...but they havent come down yet (so at least they are not rising)...but to me that is a long time just to see minimal results...

So far I'm not completely sold on these things...but I'm going to see what more time produces.

I have found these pellets on at least two occasions to have an immediate effect and consider it a powerful filtration tool.

Bear in mind though that I seed beneficial bacteria (Microbacter7) on a regular basis. As metioned earlier, a slower rolling boil of the pellets seems to work well for me.

Also consider that my perspective is from running the pellets on a tank that was already low in NO3 and PO4 and almost devoid of any nusciense algaes.. they had just started to sprout when I loaded up the pellets so quite possibly there was very little competition at the time and this enabled rapid reproduction beneficial bacteria and a more immediate impact.

If you have active algaes in the tank while you are in the first month of running the pellets then it might be of some benefit to disrupt the algae uptake of nutrients until the beneficial bactera can take over as the primary consumer of NO3 and PO4. Disrupting active algae blooms could include any or all of the follwing, lights out periods, manaul pruning, and aggressive GFO use.

Once the reactor is hosting a decent bacteria culture, an effiencient skimmer becomes critical to export the bactera as they exit the reactor. If they start to accumulate in the tank and decay there then all the carbon, nitrogen, and phosphate they consumed becomes available to other pests which may in fact seem to add fuel to the fire.

All my take on this.. hopefully others will chime in as well.

 

[ChuckG]

thanks!

I did/do most of what u suggested. I changed my GFO about an hour ago.

I have a Lot of cotton candy RED algae, that I cant get rid of (frag tank on frag rack).. This of course is not due to the pellets.

I also have chaeto and calererpa in seperate tanks (same system)

I will slow down the flow, thanks

There is no hair algae in my display, a few "green balls of algae"

The green balls are very strange and I havent read about this anyway

You can try to slow the flow and see what happens. Others have posted the higher flow rates seem to make a postive impact but I am not so sure. As said earlier it would be nice if the manufactuer could priovide more guidance.

Seed the bacteria at a rate that is recommended for high nutrient tanks.. at least the first couple of weeks. You might go through one large bottle of Microbacter7 or more with a system your size.

Watch the cheato and calerpa closely. If it starts to yellow and look to be decaying then pull it out before it can dump all the nutrients back into the water column. Once the pellets get going you may find it hard to keep the macro algae growing at all.

 

[PowermanKW]

My experience thus far with the N/P version is that some carbon might find it's way to the display. Whether it is the raw material (I doubt) or sloughed off bacteria (more likely) that makes it into the display to decay I am not sure. Either way I have had some teething problems integrating and some things I would recommend to anyone new to this type of media to at least consider and keep an eye out for.

1) If your tank already has low readings for PO4, NO3, and has no active or viable nuisance algae growths then I'd suggest starting with a lower dose than is recommended for your tanks volume, monitor N03 and PO4 and add more pellets as needed.

2) Point the output of the reactor at your skimmer inlet as best as possible and make sure the skimmer is running optimally.

3) If you have low PH over night in your tank, then the efficiency of carbon dosing (low nutrient) combined with high CO2 levels might provide an environment conducive to a dinoflagellite bloom. Any bacteria sloughed out of the reactor and not captured by a skimmer might be used by the dinos as food also.

Thanks... seems reasonable. I read where the carbon may be "solid" but certainly the bacteria don't consume every molecule. I'm OK with that. The cyano I have now is not conclusive as to what exactly is causing it.

 

[pfy333]

I'm on my 8 day using 1000ml in a Nextreef reactor with a Tunze pump rated around 600+ gph in my 120. My pellets are tumbling pretty aggresively. Put 500ml first, then 4 hrs later 500ml more. No ill effect on my tank so far.
I decided to use it due to cyano and hair algae out break. 2 cups of GFO didn't put a dent on my algae problem. My NO3 is 0 on Elos and PO4 is .03 on Hanna before NP pellets. My cyano and hair algae is disappearing. I'm not going to test for another 3 weeks because I can see it working.

 

[BlueFaceAngel]

how practical would it be to use it on a 600 gallon tank?

 

[daveonbass]

not trying to be rude...but if you can afford to run a successful 600 gallon tank...then there are probably better alternatives.

 

[ChuckG]

I'm on my 8 day using 1000ml in a Nextreef reactor with a Tunze pump rated around 600+ gph in my 120. My pellets are tumbling pretty aggresively. Put 500ml first, then 4 hrs later 500ml more. No ill effect on my tank so far.
I decided to use it due to cyano and hair algae out break. 2 cups of GFO didn't put a dent on my algae problem. My NO3 is 0 on Elos and PO4 is .03 on Hanna before NP pellets. My cyano and hair algae is disappearing. I'm not going to test for another 3 weeks because I can see it working.

Ha.. see maybe it is not the flow through the reactor. Maybe peoples success is a combination of things like skimmer efficiency or preexisting bacteria in the tank.

pfy333.. what skimmer are you using and how are you directing the reactors outflow to it? Where you previously dosing carbon at all or seeding any benefical bacteria? Or did you just throw the pellets in and let them do thier thing?

 

[chercm]

how high should the tumbling be ?

 

[daveonbass]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGRrr4zyhzY - May 23, 2010 10:05 PM

is that slow enough? It's still "boiling" on the side facing us...but it's just barely moving on the back side of the reactor. Tell me what you think. This way or the last one?

 

[ChuckG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGRrr4zyhzY - May 23, 2010 10:05 PM

is that slow enough? It's still "boiling" on the side facing us...but it's just barely moving on the back side of the reactor. Tell me what you think. This way or the last one?

My pellets run slightly slower than that but maybe email the link to JP and see what he says? If he gives you any adivse you got share the info. :thumbsup:

http://www.npbiopellets.com/index.php/contact-a-ordering

It's the flow going up one side that made me think these reactors could use a better diffusor at the bottom. I dont know what the configuration would look like though.

 

[pfy333]

Ha.. see maybe it is not the flow through the reactor. Maybe peoples success is a combination of things like skimmer efficiency or preexisting bacteria in the tank.

pfy333.. what skimmer are you using and how are you directing the reactors outflow to it? Where you previously dosing carbon at all or seeding any benefical bacteria? Or did you just throw the pellets in and let them do thier thing?

Im using a ATB 840 Deluxe with the reactor outflow directing in front of my skimmer intake. I was dosing MB7 15 drops (at low maintenance) and SB for about 2 months. I pretty much stop it cold turkey once NP pellets was on line. My dosing of the bacteria was not consistent, due to not ordering enough so there was about a 2 week pause of dosing. I also still have my GFO running and will take it off line in another month.

A little about my tank. I upgraded to a 120 but was vigilante on vodka dosing and MB7. Everything was fine till all my fish died within a week (like 15 of them), expect for 3 fishes. Some smaller fish were not found. It came like a plague out of nowhere. Needless to say I was bummed and kind of let the tank go for 3 months and only cleaned my collection cup couple times within that time frame. Nutrients escalated and I didn't even bother testing. Green hair algae grew, cyano grew, bubble algae grew and some other green weed looking algae grew. So, for the past 3 months I've been trying to get handle on things. The cyano was the most stubborn of them all. I tried MB7 and vodka again but the vodka fueled the cyano. Then I read about SB and tried that with MB7 as well. I figured a little biodiversity can hurt. The cyano continue to grow and back away and grow back. I think what ever the bacteria out competed the die off fed the cyano bacteria. Then I tried GFO at 2 cups (3 weeks running), and still the cyano refuse to back off. Only until I used the NP pellets did I see improvement. I have to admit though, the first 3 days was scary. The cyano kept growing and it seemed like the NP pellets wasn't working. It is still early in the game for me but so far I am very happy with my purchase and the NP pellets are doing what I bought it for. Cyano is finally going away by the day. :thumbsup:

 

[DevilBoy]

When people are saying that they are putting the reactor output by the skimmer input, are you placing the output tube of the reactor under water?

 

[chercm]

what is the tumbling of the reactor ?

Im using a ATB 840 Deluxe with the reactor outflow directing in front of my skimmer intake. I was dosing MB7 15 drops (at low maintenance) and SB for about 2 months. I pretty much stop it cold turkey once NP pellets was on line. My dosing of the bacteria was not consistent, due to not ordering enough so there was about a 2 week pause of dosing. I also still have my GFO running and will take it off line in another month.

A little about my tank. I upgraded to a 120 but was vigilante on vodka dosing and MB7. Everything was fine till all my fish died within a week (like 15 of them), expect for 3 fishes. Some smaller fish were not found. It came like a plague out of nowhere. Needless to say I was bummed and kind of let the tank go for 3 months and only cleaned my collection cup couple times within that time frame. Nutrients escalated and I didn't even bother testing. Green hair algae grew, cyano grew, bubble algae grew and some other green weed looking algae grew. So, for the past 3 months I've been trying to get handle on things. The cyano was the most stubborn of them all. I tried MB7 and vodka again but the vodka fueled the cyano. Then I read about SB and tried that with MB7 as well. I figured a little biodiversity can hurt. The cyano continue to grow and back away and grow back. I think what ever the bacteria out competed the die off fed the cyano bacteria. Then I tried GFO at 2 cups (3 weeks running), and still the cyano refuse to back off. Only until I used the NP pellets did I see improvement. I have to admit though, the first 3 days was scary. The cyano kept growing and it seemed like the NP pellets wasn't working. It is still early in the game for me but so far I am very happy with my purchase and the NP pellets are doing what I bought it for. Cyano is finally going away by the day. :thumbsup:

 

[mnml]

When people are saying that they are putting the reactor output by the skimmer input, are you placing the output tube of the reactor under water?

Yes, you want as much of the effluent of the reactor to get skimmed. Many use a pvc t-connect to channel the effluent of the reactor into a inlet of the skimmer pump.

 

[BlueFaceAngel]

not trying to be rude...but if you can afford to run a successful 600 gallon tank...then there are probably better alternatives.

well my tank is perfect...but if it helps with nutrient control and coral extension and color via the food...why not?

 

[pfy333]

what is the tumbling of the reactor ?

The pellets are boiling on opposite end because the Nextreef has holes at 12:00 and 6:00 o'clock. It's kind of like the way Krzysztof (lunar) modify his zeo reactor. No pellets are stationary or at a gentle tumble.

 

[daveonbass]

well if it's "perfect" then you don't need them...