N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[stevedola]

i see many people have cyano. do you think you could use redslime remover (the product) to help with the issue. I know in the past Ive used it with great results. do you think there would be an issue with using them with the pellets?

just a thought.

 

[daveonbass]

ARI: I'm with you, after taking my pellets out, for about a week, NOTHING changed still. So the pellets don't do anything. I'm really thinking that the only reason I thought I ever neded the pellets was because my tank went through a mini cycle when I set up my QT and had to remove a large chunck of rock. NO3 went up, balanced out, I did massive water changes, and it hasn't come back up since. Meanwhile the BP were in there all along and never changed anything. So I don't think they every really do much for anyone. (exceptions being tanks that are already successful and can utilize that added C source, and thus expand the already present bacteria colony)

steve: my cyano also had a spike recently, and never went away with the BP. Just last night I put my second MP10 back on the tank (total of two now) and iw was gone in an hour. I didn't know how much that little propeller did till it was gone. I'm not saying this is your problem, my point is simple that the BP had/have nothing to do with it. (perhaps)

so now I plan on doing another water change finally, and manually lowering my NO3. I will continue to run the SWC pellets, but they will only have to deal with the left over NO3 which should be around 5ppm after the water change.

 

[ari5736]

This morning I removed the top of my offline reactor [smr1 nextreef] because I wanted to see if Bluereefs diy bacteria machine success had anything to do with an open top design. I did not have a chance to really inspect the reactor until later on this evening and at that point when I looked into the reactor the water was very cloudy and super stinky. When the reactor was online it never clouded up the way it is now. So I am not sure if the bloom was caused by having the reactor offline for the weekend, opening the top for the day or both. On a side note, my skimmate has become drastically dryer since reactor was taken offline this past weekend.

My concern is putting the reactor backonline and not causing an in tank bacterial bloom and lesser concern that closing the reactor back up and running it will kill/disipate the bacteria now inhabiting the reactor (I must close the top of this reactor in order for it to run). I could however run the pellets in my sulfur reactor with an open top.

On a different 45 gallon tank I have been running about 1 liter of pellets for the past 2 months and I finally got around to testing the NO3 today, upwards of 60ppm! (granted I do feed almost exclusively frozen mysids a couple of times a day.) I took the reactor offline, unscrewed the top of the reactor, no cloudy water, and no smell whatsoever. I will leave it open for the night and see if there is a bloom in the reactor by tomorrow and report back.

If the pellets need something in the air to activate them, aside from running an open top reactor maybe a venturi on the reactor pump would prove successful. If I got a bacterial bloom from just letting the pellets sit around over the weekend maybe letting the pellets soak in tank water until a bloom occurs is the way to activate. I feel like I may finally be making progress.

My biggest concern at this point is safely putting the reactor backonline, and am not sure how I should go about doing that.

I am considering putting the reactor backonilne.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I am just guessing here, but the bacteria need oxygen. Right? What if the water doesn't have oxygen when it enters the reactor. Would this keep the bacteria from growing? I really don't understand the acteria cycle, but it could explain the differences.

 

[sterling18]

i see many people have cyano. do you think you could use redslime remover (the product) to help with the issue. I know in the past Ive used it with great results. do you think there would be an issue with using them with the pellets?

just a thought.

Red slime remover is an antibiotic as cyanobacteria is well, a bacteria.

If you use an antibiotic I believe it will have a negative side effect with the bacteria that lives in the pellets. I wouldn't try it if you're trying to grow the bacteria on the pellets.

 

[Sohal Tang Tim]

patience

patience

I get the feeling alot of people are really trying to RUSH the results of the NP pellets.... I added mine last week and my water is crystal clear and zeroooo problems with anything..... I am waiting and I feel it will be at least 4 weeks before I even THINKKKKK of looking for any changes or improvements....

Do not count them out till they have run the course and 2 weeks is simply NOT EVEN CLOSE to enough time likely for them to "do their thing"

pATIENCE.

Just a suggestion...I could be wrong.


Tim

:fun2:

 

[Moser]

1+ :thumbsup:.

my comment: the BP don't really do anything. I am starting to firmly believe that it's all the other "regular husbandry" that is paying off. I think that if there is a bacteria bloom, then yeah, maybe there is something working in them there. But I don't recall anyone being able to claim that they STOPPED doing regular husbandry, even just water changes, and still noticed that their water got "better." I have held off doing a WC for weeks now hopeing to see the BP do something in the tank to reduce NO3. And no effects. However, if I had continued to do my regular WC's then I too would have undetectable nutrient levels. I just have not EVER been shown that BP "ALONE" will do anything, the success stories all seem to have too many other variables that could have contributed to the success.

My smaller tank has been running around two years. Initially with heavy bioload and so nitrates have always been around 30.

I switched to zeo about a year ago and got cyano, but nitrates did drop to around 10, with nice SPS colours. I then neglected the tank a bit when i started to work on my bigger system and I got an alk dip from running out of Balling Alk and not checking it. I lost a lot of corals - a mini crash- and left the system with a few softies and some SPS skeletons. I also wonder whether I had some flatworms too.

I switched to NP pellets around 6 months ago and just left them running with the skimmer and nothing else. No water changes, nothing.

One day i noticed some new SPS growth from several of the old skeletons with massive polyp extension. I measured again. Nitrates 0. Phos 0.05. I have recently added rowaphos, but no water changes for nearly six months and i can see the SPS growing almost daily.

I stll need to vacuum a lot of the sand bed, but I did a bit and changed some of the rock and cyano has nearly all gone.

I hear your story, but don't see what you have to lose by adding some pellets in a reactor in the corner of your sump and forget about them. Carry on your normal routine, keep your hands out of the tank and just see what happens.

Biopellets were never supposed to replace normal husbandry or water changes, so i think you're giving them bad press for something they don't claim to offer.

Every system requires good husbandry.

Mo

 

[daveonbass]

I never said they would replace husbandry, but for sixty bucks plus shipping, I could have got something else, add the reactor and new pump...a lot more something else. They should do something, and trust me I've had these sitting in my tank for long enough...nothing has worked except WC's.

 

[bluereefs]

This morning I removed the top of my offline reactor [smr1 nextreef] because I wanted to see if Bluereefs diy bacteria machine success had anything to do with an open top design. I did not have a chance to really inspect the reactor until later on this evening and at that point when I looked into the reactor the water was very cloudy and super stinky. When the reactor was online it never clouded up the way it is now. So I am not sure if the bloom was caused by having the reactor offline for the weekend, opening the top for the day or both. On a side note, my skimmate has become drastically dryer since reactor was taken offline this past weekend.

That is good sign, it mean that your bp pellets are working, at least they produce bacteria so maybe you just need to slow the flow throu reactor to get nitrate reduction in aquarium or ad aerization. I would not add this water inside the reactor in aquarium, if is stinky that is hidrogen sulfid and could be dangerous for livestock. I would wash the bp with sea water, remove the smell and put him back on line. I dont know for sure is open top of lack of movement inside the reactor created bacterial bloom but is a good sign that you get bacterial blom because they worked now.

Update of my experiment with the bp in a jars.
BP from functional reactor made water litlle more cloudy and there are more bacterial string around bp after 48 hours.

BP from non functional reactor after 24 hours do nothing, water are still clear, no bacteria string anywhere.

 

[Moser]

I never said they would replace husbandry, but for sixty bucks plus shipping, I could have got something else, add the reactor and new pump...a lot more something else. They should do something, and trust me I've had these sitting in my tank for long enough...nothing has worked except WC's.

Just a thought.

Could it be that your frequent large water changes may not let the biology stabilise?.

Mo

 

[daveonbass]

mo: sorry RC was about to take a nap, so I had to cut short my reply. I hate to still sound so skeptical, but I too (as have many others) have had a tank crash/mini-crash on us and we kind of gave up for a little while. Down but not out. And even the worst of mine, a 6 gallon nano, bounced back, complete with a tiny acro growing that I didn't know existed. The point is that if left long enough many tanks will use up all the nutrients they can and finally support life. AND, all this was happening well before BP had been invented. So again...where's the proof? Why is is so difficult to just add some anyways? Well, it's not terrible except that currently it's costing me an extra pump, so heat, space, noise, electricity, and the room for the reactor as well. Not a huge deal, but I'd like to see something for my efforts is all.

but allas...I'm still giving them time. I just did another 50% WC and got my NO3 down to 5-10ppm. PO4 is still undetectable. AND it's finally been a week so I got to add the other half of my SWC pellets. For a total of 250ml of pellets that are tumbleing happily. Maybe they will have an impact on the now lower nitrates, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on it. Wish me luck everyone.

 

[daveonbass]

Just a thought.

Could it be that your frequent large water changes may not let the biology stabilise?.

Mo

I hardly would call 4 WC all year "frequent."

I did three in one week a few months ago, and one last night...so far the reduction in NO3 after the WC's has stayed permanent, with or without the BP. So I think my tank went through a mini-cycle and is now staying stable.

 

[Moser]

mo: sorry RC was about to take a nap, so I had to cut short my reply. I hate to still sound so skeptical, but I too (as have many others) have had a tank crash/mini-crash on us and we kind of gave up for a little while. Down but not out. And even the worst of mine, a 6 gallon nano, bounced back, complete with a tiny acro growing that I didn't know existed. The point is that if left long enough many tanks will use up all the nutrients they can and finally support life. AND, all this was happening well before BP had been invented. So again...where's the proof? Why is is so difficult to just add some anyways? Well, it's not terrible except that currently it's costing me an extra pump, so heat, space, noise, electricity, and the room for the reactor as well. Not a huge deal, but I'd like to see something for my efforts is all.

but allas...I'm still giving them time. I just did another 50% WC and got my NO3 down to 5-10ppm. PO4 is still undetectable. AND it's finally been a week so I got to add the other half of my SWC pellets. For a total of 250ml of pellets that are tumbleing happily. Maybe they will have an impact on the now lower nitrates, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on it. Wish me luck everyone.

One Question.
Ask on the Zeovit forum if they would recommend weekly 50% water changes.
How are you supposed to develop and sustain a bacterial culture?.

If you mix methodologies, it's unfair to blame one when it's not working. Clearly if 50% WC's was working you wouldn't have decided to use pellets?.

I can't recall your stable nitrate values, but why not try cutting your WC to max 5-10% per week for a few months?.... after all, that is about standard practice for WC?.

Maybe then you will establish a bacterial culture.

Other option is to stop your reactor and leave it full of tank water with no flow for a week or so and see if you get a culture then... I'd be surprised if you didn't.

Still a few options, I think.

Also, ur sure there is no copper wire, rusty screw etc anywhere?...

Mo

 

[daveonbass]

One Question.
Ask on the Zeovit forum if they would recommend weekly 50% water changes.
How are you supposed to develop and sustain a bacterial culture?.

If you mix methodologies, it's unfair to blame one when it's not working. Clearly if 50% WC's was working you wouldn't have decided to use pellets?.

I can't recall your stable nitrate values, but why not try cutting your WC to max 5-10% per week for a few months?.... after all, that is about standard practice for WC?.

Maybe then you will establish a bacterial culture.

Other option is to stop your reactor and leave it full of tank water with no flow for a week or so and see if you get a culture then... I'd be surprised if you didn't.

Still a few options, I think.

Also, ur sure there is no copper wire, rusty screw etc anywhere?...

Mo

I've never done weekly 50% WC's. I had high NO3 of about 80ppm and my corals wouldn't quit dying. So I did three 50% WC over the course of a week. And brought my N levels down to around 10ppm. The corals responded immediately with growth and color. In that one instance I didn't care about bacteria populations, I simply wanted to save my livestock...and I did. Keep in mind that I HAD been running BP for a few weeks with no reaction. After the N drop, still no reaction.

then I didn't do a WC for at least TWO months now. So again, I've probably changed a lot less than the average person that does 5-10% each week. (or bi-weekly) I don't think the zeo users would recommend having nitrates at 80+ppm, and would recommend changing that first over worrying about bacteria levels.

so I don't think you can blame my methodology, I wasn't doing ANY water changes when I started the BP, I was giving them the chance to show some results, and provide food for the corals I did have.

my tank was stable at about 10-15ppm nitrate after the first major WC months ago...till now, now they are at what looks like 5-10ppm.

while waiting for the SWC pellets I was told to take the current BP (original NP) out of the reactor...I was lazy and just turned it off...they sat in the reactor ithe saltwater and no flow for 10 days...no bacteria. (shrug)

there is no copper or wireing. There is nothing in use in the tank that is out of the oridinary for reefers to use. I have and still do test and get zero ppm with a copper test kit. (undetectable)

again, it be nice if the new stuff kicked in.

 

[daveonbass]

If you mix methodologies, it's unfair to blame one when it's not working. Clearly if 50% WC's was working you wouldn't have decided to use pellets?.

Mo

I agree completely, but it works both ways, if you mix methodologies, it's unfair to "give credit" to any particular one when it IS working.

so far NO ONE has used JUST bio pellets to maintain their tank...so how can any of us be sure they are the main source of any successful solution? Even when they "do" work, it's hard to prove that it wasn't from some other source. I suspect it's a combination of events, as are most successes in reef tanks. The "working" BP simply can HELP, but alone will literally do nothing.

if mine start working I swear I'm gonna have some serious back tracking to do...haha.

 

[ari5736]

Just measured the NO3 in my reactor with bloom and it is 0ppm. I guess I will pour out the water and fire the reactor back up.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I am just guessing here, but the bacteria need oxygen. Right? What if the water doesn't have oxygen when it enters the reactor. Would this keep the bacteria from growing? I really don't understand the bacteria cycle, but it could explain the differences.

No one commented on this (maybe it got lost), but I am curious how much if any oxygen is needed for the bacteria. From what I read it sounds like they use oxygen. Just trying to further my understanding - thanks.

 

[bluereefs]

No one commented on this (maybe it got lost), but I am curious how much if any oxygen is needed for the bacteria. From what I read it sounds like they use oxygen. Just trying to further my understanding - thanks.

Most of our aquarium is saturated or near oxygen saturation so there are no lack of oxygen in our aquariums, there is no reason to beleive that water what are pumped in reactor, mostly from the sump, dont have enough oxygen for bacteria, only if something what we dont know is hapening in the first layer of bp where water hit the media and those proces take out of the oxygen needed for the rest of the bp to work sucesfully. I have some old salifert oxygen test so I can measure oxygen in the efluent water from the reactor.

Regarding how much oxygen need bacteria, IIRC and if is corectly what I readed, bacteria consume more oxygen then all other living creatures in the aquarium.

 

[bluereefs]

just measured oxygen with old salifert oxygen test, there is no diference betwen aquarium water and efluent from both reactor with bp (working or not working bp inside) all tests sample was saturated with oxygen.

expiried date on test are 2009, test kit was not used before, just opened for purpose of this testing

 

[ari5736]

Just saw on WM Ecobak thread that WM is creating a seeding bacteria for their pellets.