naso qt disaster.

[avandss]

i got this naso that was perfectly healthy, however his qt tank mate was a little hippo with brook (some will remember here).

timeline

july 10th introduction -hippo - naso

july 13th prazi 10days
july 15th copper
aug 7th. had to cut copper short since brook was discovered
aug 7th metro ( signs of hlle started)
aug 17th metro stopped as it was not effective
aug 20th started formalin bath ** (naso has yet to show any signs of brook) looks super healthy

aug23-24 had to stop formalin bath as naso went blind suddenly and does not react well to formalin.

hippo was at day 3 of formalin dip.

aug 27th 1day formalin bath.
aug 28 90%wc naso still does not like formalin

sep10 hippo finally dies.
sep11 naso is moved to temp water container, and his tank is sanitized and fresh.

since then hlle got worst, inflation on the head

and recently he looks like he is swimming back and forth near the glass so both sides near his fins (where i think he touches glass) is getting raw.

however when he sees me, he is happy and eats like a starved puppy. you can almost see he wants to jump in the other qt with pyramids. again he just stares at me and sticks right near me when i am near the tank

diet.
green/red nori (eats from my hand...)
mysis

garlic & selcon additives.

i feel like i am killing this poor naso. what to do, its getting worst

 

[HumbleFish]

That's a bacterial infection. Not uncommon for fish fighting a preexisting parasitic infestation. This fish needs to be treated with a broad spectrum antibiotic, such as Furan-2 or Kanaplex. In another thread, a poster suggested combining the two for maximum effectiveness and he provided documentation proving it was safe to do so.

Now the kicker is the redness I'm seeing in pic #3 (behind the pectoral fin). That looks to be the beginnings of hemorrhagic septicemia. Which can sometimes be bacterial, sometimes viral. No way of knowing for sure without a scope (and someone who knows what to look for). Viral hemorrhagic septicemia is almost always fatal and there is no known treatment. So, if this was my fish I'd treat with antibiotics and just hope it's bacterial.

 

[avandss]

wow. i was sure it was hlle!! thank you so much!

i have furan 2 on hand, what about nitrofuracin green?

i will start furan 2 tomorrow morning

the redness behind the fin in the picture i never notices, will have to pay attention tomorrow

thank you so much!

 

[avandss]

i had to wake him up and see the redness. must be a camera thing, there is absolutely no redness on the skin, no inflation and perfectly grey on both side.....

as for the rawness on both pectoral fins, thats bacterial too? i should also add the the holes on his head excreted some white sponge looking thing, it stayed attached to him for a few day, and it is swollen

btw, you are extremely knowledgeable and kind! thank you again for all your help

 

[ca1ore]

Naso is my 'unkeepable' fish. Tried twice and both times fish died following 12 weeks in QT and then 2 days in DT. Won't be a third.

 

[avandss]

well i have my pyramids on that list!

 

[HumbleFish]

i have furan 2 on hand, what about nitrofuracin green?

They both contain nitrofurazone, so do one or the other... but not both. It's a good idea to increase gas exchange while treating with antibiotics. Is the fish being treated with any other medications? I'm worried about interactions.

i had to wake him up and see the redness. must be a camera thing, there is absolutely no redness on the skin, no inflation and perfectly grey on both side.....

This is a good thing. Hopefully it's not hemorrhagic septicemia then.

as for the rawness on both pectoral fins, thats bacterial too? i should also add the the holes on his head excreted some white sponge looking thing, it stayed attached to him for a few day, and it is swollen

The excrement is another symptom of infection. And I think infection is what you're seeing at the base of the pectoral fin as well. Could be furunculosis (bacterial disease).

btw, you are extremely knowledgeable and kind! thank you again for all your help

Thank you and you're welcome. We have to save this tang to justify to my wife why I'm just now joining her in bed. But I'll check this thread first thing in the AM.

 

[avandss]

thank you!!!

apologies to the wife. i do not know why or how mine still loves me after this tank!

 

[HumbleFish]

Is the naso being treated with any other medications?

 

[avandss]

No he was under observation. Nothing but 25% wc every 48h

i did the first dose of furan 2 this morning.

fingers crossed.

btw, you have seen this before? i really do not want to loose the naso!

 

[HumbleFish]

I've dealt with what I believed to be furunculosis before (Achilles tang), if that's what this turns out to be. Knocked it out with Furan-2. I warn you though that many times a bacterial infection turns out to be secondary in nature to a preexisting parasitic infestation. The bacterial infection takes precedence at this time, but afterwards I would evaluate this fish closely for parasites. Brook, velvet, Uronema should have all surfaced by now... but you might wanna run him thru TT (for ich) just in case the time spent in copper wasn't suffice. I'm also worried about Brook since he shared water with a hippo that you think died from that. I know you said the naso doesn't like formalin baths... but possibly he would respond better to treating the entire QT w/formalin at a lower dosage??

 

[avandss]

I've dealt with what I believed to be furunculosis before (Achilles tang), if that's what this turns out to be. Knocked it out with Furan-2. I warn you though that many times a bacterial infection turns out to be secondary in nature to a preexisting parasitic infestation. The bacterial infection takes precedence at this time, but afterwards I would evaluate this fish closely for parasites. Brook, velvet, Uronema should have all surfaced by now... but you might wanna run him thru TT (for ich) just in case the time spent in copper wasn't suffice. I'm also worried about Brook since he shared water with a hippo that you think died from that. I know you said the naso doesn't like formalin baths... but possibly he would respond better to treating the entire QT w/formalin at a lower dosage??

he did not do well with the .25ppm formalin bath. however i can maybe try .20 this time?

how long should i wait after the 4 day furan2 treatment before starting tank transfer?

also i need to change my water system, as you know my little clown and the little ich spot in my dt... however the spot is still present so i am hoping it is not ich, none of my qt fish actually had ich. i have a automatic fill system that takes water from the dt and fills each qt.

 

[avandss]

i have to say. between my potential ich dt, sick naso, and unknown maladie butterflies, i just cant ever imagine my tank will succeed

i might have to do a (CONF) coral only no fish j/k

 

[ca1ore]

This can be a frustrating hobby, no question, but things will improve. I seem to have runs where all the fish I get do well, and runs where none of them do. A recent DD/LA shipment was given 'the treatment' during shipping, including being delivered to my neighbor rather than me. Four cardinals were essentially DoA and the wrasse looks poorly; not to mention the magnifica anemone Ups and downs.

Despite their designations, I'd rate pyramids and Naso as tricky fish, not easy ones. At least, that's my experience FWIW.

 

[HumbleFish]

he did not do well with the .25ppm formalin bath. however i can maybe try .20 this time?

Some fish actually respond better to in-tank treatment (at a much lower dosage) than the bath. If you are using Formalin-MS, try 2 drops per gallon. But I wouldn't do this while treating with antibiotics. Possibly try it when you do TT, but be prepared to pull the fish if necessary. Some fish just don't respond well to formalin, at any dosage level.

how long should i wait after the 4 day furan2 treatment before starting tank transfer?

IME; you are probably going to need to do 2 full courses of antibiotic treatment - so, 8 days total. You can combine with TT, but increase gas exchange exponentially (same thing goes for formalin).

also i need to change my water system, as you know my little clown and the little ich spot in my dt... however the spot is still present so i am hoping it is not ich, none of my qt fish actually had ich. i have a automatic fill system that takes water from the dt and fills each qt.

As you know, fish can have ich without showing noticeable symptoms. If your DT has ich and that water is being shared with your QTs - that is rendering QT useless.

 

[HumbleFish]

This can be a frustrating hobby, no question, but things will improve. I seem to have runs where all the fish I get do well, and runs where none of them do. A recent DD/LA shipment was given 'the treatment' during shipping, including being delivered to my neighbor rather than me. Four cardinals were essentially DoA and the wrasse looks poorly; not to mention the magnifica anemone Ups and downs.

+1 Around 4-5 years ago I went through a really rough patch. For almost a year, almost every fish I bought was a "Typhoid Mary" with a menagerie of diseases (I was getting them all from the same LFS). As a result, I had this choice to make: Tuck tail and make my exit from the hobby. Or fine tune my QT protocol/treatment skills. So, sometimes a positive can result from adversity.

 

[avandss]

thank you very much for the support, its nice to know that i am not the only one, mechanically i am pretty sure i built a solid setup, but when is comes to parasites and bacterial infections, its a wild card!

 

[SteelMastiff]

Hang in there, you'll get through it. I think everyone who has been in this hobby can give examples of good and bad runs when stocking their tank. I've had a horrible run of luck lately, but this is following a great run where everything went extremely smooth.

Last year at about this time I lost 3 fish to a 1/4 dose of Cupramine, they were in separate tanks, and I never figured out what went wrong. Now I just lost 4 Angel's in less than a week to Velvet, thankfully they were in qt and not just tossed into my display.

 

[pinnatus]

I believe that many blonde nasos are cyanide caught. I went through three that did meh for a while, then died. I currently have two that are doing very well. I got them from a different supplier from the previous 3.

 

[avandss]

are the hawaiin ones caught using cyanide?

i just finished the formalin cycle, pectoral fins are back to normal, but the weird growth on the head is still there

any idea? ill try to post some updated pics