Need advice on a 4,000l setup

L

Laith

Member
I have a lot of experience installing and maintaining freshwater setups, including "hi-tech" automated heavily planted tanks.

I have zero experience with reef tanks but have been trying to read as much as I can.

I recently received a request for the installation and maintenance of a 4000l (1,056g) reef tank (400cm x 100cm x 100cm or 157" x 40" x 40"). The tank will be built into a wall with access to a small room behind for all the equipment required.

So far I've managed to find and price the following equipment:

- The tank itself (custom made of course: about CHF 12,000, or US$ 8,900, is this reasonable?)
- A skimmer (HEA250) good for tanks up to 5,000l

So obviously I need some helpful advice! Such as:

- How big of a sump/refug. do I need?
- How much lighting does this need (I imagine at least 4000w; is that possible?)
- Is a chiller necessary?
- How much live rock are we talking about here? If 1lb/g is the recommendation, that's 540kg of live rock. Or do large tanks need less than the recommended 1lb/gallon?

Any other tips would be much appreciated!

I do plan on working with someone on this who has quite a bit of experience in reef setups. Problem is is that he's not around for several weeks and I need to give an estimate quickly.

Thanks.
 
Have a training year with a smal reef tank first!

That will give you a lot of info about what you need to think of before you start with a big tank!
 
I realize that would be the best path. Since I don't have a training year, I will be working with someone who has the experience.

But as mentioned, he will not be around for several weeks and is not reachable at the moment.

Hence my current inquiry for help.
 
I'll start on some of it.

The tank quote doesn't seem to out of line at all to me.

You will need 1000W halides for a tank that deep and being 13 ft long you probably need 6 of them, 5 at a minimum with Lumenarc reflectors.

You'll need close to that in live rock. You can go less but you'll need a lot.

Sump is personal choice, bigger is better. On something like that 100G is an absolute minimum for draining during power outages, etc.


You will most likely need a chiller as those lights will be crazy hot. It will need to be around 3HP probably (several thousand USD)

You'll need ways to deal with the humidity as you will evaporate probably 30G or so a day into the room! Autotopoff is a must. A good RODI system a must!

Quick math:

Tank + skimmer 10k
Rock ~$5k
Lights ~ 2k
Water motion (depends what you do) ~ 2k
Sand?
automation ~3k

I would quote at least 20k and that is with no livestock and doesn't include room modifications, stand, labor to install the stuff, etc. etc.
 
Maybe I missed it - but where are you located?

You should find (and join) the local reef club. I'm sure there will be a wealth of experience there that you can use at every stage of your project.
 
May i ask you if you had take the RUNNING COSTS in mind...about 10000$ a YEAR!!

IMO the tank is a little expensive but i think at switzerland it could be a little more for all!!

I'd run the sump as big as possible..maybe 250gallons or so!!

The skimmer should work...and its less expensive than eg Deltec or RoyalExclusiv! But take in mind that this size will be at the LOWER end of the scale for that tank!!

I think you'll need a proper heating as well as a chiller...

For light i would suggest 5X1000W with lumenarc reflectors!

MY overrall sugestion is:

Go for a smaller Tank..get some experience there..meet other reefers at your site...
 
The running cost mentioned, what does that include? everything? or only water and electricity?

They told me they have a budget of CHF 30k (about US$ 22k). I guess they'll need to increase it by at least US$10k to include installation, live rock, sand and fish?

So an approximate figure of around US$35K should give them an idea of the cost...

Maybe they'll end up going for a much simpler African Cichlid tank but the same size! :)
 
that includes ALL and everything ..
Food, replacement for Light, Salt, Water, a small amount of energy :bum: etcetcetc...

it's calculated for GERMAN prices .. so eg electricity is about 0.20€ kW/h
the ammount is calculated at MY average prices for all the stuff needed!
 
Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d for sure decrease the depth to say 30" this would equal less lighting, smaller chiller, less evap. and easier cleaning and maintenance. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d also try and talk your clients to less width for all the same reasons, the depth is the killer however. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d ad in a bigger skimmer, bigger is better.
 
Many thanks for all the valuable inputs here!

I've decided to reduce the height from 100cm to 85cm (down to about 33"). On the other hand, to allow for more "depth of view", I've increased the width to 120cm from 100cm (from 40" to 47"). Do these changes have any measurable impact on cost? I wouldn't think that this would reduce the lighting requirement...

1000w lighting was mentioned. I've only been able to find individual lighting of 250w and 400w. Does a 1000w bulb exist?

The small equipment room behind the aquarium has an air conditioner installed. Will this be enough to cool the tank and take care of humidity?

The installation will be in a restaurant. Yesterday I gave them a draft cost estimation of CHF 39,500 (US$ 29,000) for everything except fish, coral, live rock and installation.

That should cover things no?
 
IMO that will reduce the requirements from 5X1000 to 6X400

YES there are 1000W E40 media available.. eg BLV 10kK Nepturion...

IMO there is a decrease of the thickness for the glass.. 15mm instead of 19mm.. so should be like half the price or so!!

so if the calculation is "only" Tank and technics (like lights and skimmer and Pumps) this should work!! Take in mind that this might be "half the way" to the full assembled tank!!

...you didn't read my PM right now ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6930262#post6930262 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
.
Click to expand...

91862Subscribe_to_this_Thread.jpg
 
What?

Am I being told to subscribe to this thread?

Not quite sure I get the meaning... maybe hint a bit more clearly? ;)
 
asnatlas, yeah I know all about the subscribe link. I replied to the thread but then changed my mind and removed the reply. Please look at my post count and you will probably be able to figure I already know all about it. Thanks.

----> Posts: 2720
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6930159#post6930159 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Laith
...
The small equipment room behind the aquarium has an air conditioner installed. Will this be enough to cool the tank and take care of humidity?

...
Click to expand...

Any inputs on this issue? Thanks.
 
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