Need help from the experts!! Lost color!

[dzhuo]

How high should I let the PO4 in the effluent get before I change the media?

You mean the carbonate calcium media in the reactor? If so, I am not sure if there is anything you can do since virtually all carbonate calcium media contains and leaks phosphate to various degrees although certain brands are known to leak more than others. For example, Koralith is estimated to have roughly 28% higher phosphate compare to ARM presumably due to impurity. On average, almost all popular carbonate calcium medias leaks about 0.02ppm which seem to confirm to your own observation. This makes sense because phosphate is a basic building block for grow and all living cells contains phosphate so this shouldn't be a surprise.

Base on the apparence of your tank, my guess is that you have a nutrient issue. I suspect your rock work and sand bed are the problem.

 

[sslak]

Its a GFO reactor, not biopellets.

Unless I'm missing something I'm reducing my phosphates from 0.05 to 0.02 measuring the tank water compared to the water coming out of the reactor.

I'm running a maxi-jet 900 throttled back about half speed I would say to get a gentle tumble.

Should I expect to get 0.0 out of the reactor, or is 0.02 pretty much what I should be seeing?

 

[dzhuo]

Its a GFO reactor, not biopellets.

Sorry. I thought you were running a Rx reactor.

Should I expect to get 0.0 out of the reactor, or is 0.02 pretty much what I should be seeing?

I would not consider 0.02 to be normal. Although the efficiency of GFO media varies slightly from brand to brand, almost all of them perform relatively well and are known to be able to effectively reduce phosphate near or well below 0.01. Here is one study by Richard Harker:

Product Review: Ferrous Oxide Phosphate Removers

If you are measuring 0.02 from the output of your reactor, the medias has likely been exhausted although it's hard to predict the accuracy of the test kit. For example, the standard Hana phosphate checker has an error margin of 0.04 so a 0.02 reading can technically be 0.00 or 0.06.

 

[lobsterotomy]

Maybe I missed this, but when's the last time you changed your halide bulbs? T5 bulbs?

The nutrient issues don't add up to me. If it's too low, then like you say, why do you have the algae issues? If it's too high, then your corals should be colorful or brown, not transparent.

I think Rt Reef's got the issue. Your lights are pooched. If it's been a while since you've changed your bulbs, then that would explain a lot. Your corals aren't getting sufficient light to produce the colours you want, and all the while the spectrum has shifted on the lights and they're more conducive to growing nuisance algae than corals.

Your parameters might not be rock stable, but manual dosing (as long as you keep on track) will be more than sufficient. Just try to avoid rapid swings - for example, when you found your alk to be 6, don't dump a crapload to get it back to 9.5 - do it over 2 or 3 days for a more gradual change, especially when it's still within an "acceptable" range.

Good luck with getting the colours back. It can be one of the more frustrating aspects of keeping SPS. At least your prized colony didn't RTN for no particular reason

 

[sslak]

Good news!

I am winning the war on the hair algae!

Steps taken:
dosing pump installed for Alk portion of 2part (1.1ml per min 10min twice per day)
testing Alk EVERY DAY to tune in dosing pump
reduced PAR (replaced Blue+ with actinic and disabled 250w halide)
reduced photo period
+2 big turbo snails

 

[PasserAngelfish]

^too clean doesn't make sense. If that was the case I wouldn't have an algae plague.

Someone in another thread suggested too much light, thoughts?

how do you clean the tank bottom? maybe there're excertion sunk there. water movement pumps are near the top.

 

[sslak]

I don't clean the tank bottom. I prefer not to disturb the 3" sand bed. Even if I were to try to clean it, I'm not sure how I would go about it as the sand is so fine it would get sucked up just like any detritus.

I have plenty of nassarius snails that should be taking care of that for me.

 

[PasserAngelfish]

I don't clean the tank bottom. I prefer not to disturb the 3" sand bed. Even if I were to try to clean it, I'm not sure how I would go about it as the sand is so fine it would get sucked up just like any detritus.

I have plenty of nassarius snails that should be taking care of that for me.

what's color of algae? main color

 

[sslak]

Mostly green hair. I have a small patch of red turf, and some green bubble, but like I said I think I'm on the verge of chasing it out.

Now I just need to get the corals to color up.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

Understand that the hair algae on your rocks is an indicator that your rocks have absorbed nutrients. Probably phosphates. Also looking at the pictures i dont see it growing on your plastic or sand bed which tells me the current nutrient load is probably ok. The tank is not hungry. Be patient. With your rockwork and your semi active shallow sand bed you have it would be very difficult to drive nutrients too low with out using some chemical media. The previous posters are correct alkalinty stability is key to color. If parameters are stable colors will develop in spite of the nutrient load. High nutrient tanks tend to handle high light better than lo nutrient tanks. Your is high nutrient. Understand the best way to beat the hair algae is long term. Cut your nutrient amount introduced and allow the hair algae to pull the excess out of your rocks. Blast your rocks with light. You want the algae to grow. Algae is your friend. It's the only non destructive way you have to cleanse your rock work and it will work. Use it as a tool. It cleans and its the best test kit that your money doesnt have to buy. Excessive light will not kill coaline if every thing else is correct in a high nutrient tank. If you establish a negative nutrient load and keep it moving the hair algae will go away when the excessive nutrients are reduced. Oh, dont disturb that sand bed.

 

[sslak]

Thanks Dave. That's pretty much the conclusion I've come to.

I think the algae has been my friend, the reason it hasn't gone away until now is that there was still more junk to feed it. Hopefully I'm now passing the tipping point where the algae has done it's job.

The additional light was a reaction on my part to things looking not quite right, I believed more light was the answer, which probably added stress to an already stressed situation.

I'm hoping that what I'm seeing is the end of all that, and a return back to the clean healthy tank it was before we moved it and I noobed it up!

 

[Dog boy Dave]

Moving a tank will always cause an algae bloom if there is substrate moved. Usually no big deal once you believe that you can control the algae. You can. Over the last 20 years I have been told by experts to replace my rock many times. I still have the same rock and sand in my systems that I started with. I have added to it a lot over the years but the original stuff is still going strong. As far as light goes, in your tank I would not be afraid to increase the light gradually. Personally I like the high light tanks and find most of the lps do just fine under intense lighting. I run a 250 halide over my LPS and they love it. I run 6 times 400 over my main display and the healty corals thrive less than 12 inches from the light right on the surface of my tank. . One of my stags sticks up out of the tank less than 8 inches from a 400 watt halide and does fine. It did finally stop growing when it reached the surface though...Sounds like you have turned the corner though. Just remeber the changes are slow but you should be able to see them day to day. Stay away from the chemical media and algacides. Keep your cycle moving and consider a grazing tang.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

If you would like to see some old pictures of my system when i first set it up look here. it was covered with Byopsis. I knew I would get a bloom when i moved the tank as i moved a deep sand bed into the main system and that will cause a huge cycle event. Even though i moved the sand 30 days before the main display the nutient boost was huge.

Within 9 months to a year the main display was clear of the algae. I did it with heavy skimming, measured feeding, grazing tangs (who arent real effective cause the fresh bryopsis cuts them i think.) and 10 percent water changes using good water.

Here is the same tank today 5 years later. Bryopsis hid continue to flourish in one section of my sump until about 6 months ago when the last of it faded away. If you control your nutrient inport and actively maintain your nutrient cycle with circulation and appropriate system design, you can control algae in your main display long term.

 

[sslak]

Unfortunately I have a 58g tank and I would probably get crucified on this forum for getting a tang, even a small one.

 

[allsps40]

I've NEVER dosed vodka.
I DIDN'T do a large dose of Alk all at once, I do 40ml every day to maintain dkH of 9.5
Lights are back on (aside from the 250w)
I wouldn't call 15gal weekly water changes "heavy".

I have no idea what caused the Alk to drop to 6 during the 3 day lights out. All I did was my normal weekly water change (Alk of NSW was 10)

I'm getting so many conflicting ideas it's hard to figure out what to do, but I certainly haven't done anything drastic. The "lights out" period was the only action I've taken that differs from my normal routine.

Ok I thought I saw in a post that dosed vodka or ran a ULNS. If I was wrong sorry.
A dose of 40ml of alk is a LOT to dose a tank, let alone a 58G, let alone all at once. That causes a huge alk spike.
Like I said get the levels dialed in at keep it stable. That will do a lot for your corals.

 

[sslak]

The BRS calculator says it takes 50ml to raise the Alk 0.5 dkh based on my water volume.

My API test kit was essentially taking 1 extra drop for the color to change after 2 days without dosing. So I figured I was losing about 0.5dkh per day.

I have since lowered my dosing to 20ml per day on a dosing pump and timer. It doses 10ml over 10 minutes, and it does two doses 12 hours apart.

 

[allsps40]

^ yeh I dont trust the calculators. Test daily and dial in your dosing that way, much safer. And API tests kits suck I know I use them LOL only for quick checking though. If I think anything is off I will test with Salifert and Hanna.

 

[sslak]

Yep. I've been checking every day since I implemented the dosing pump and my Alk test turns right between 9 and 10 drops, so I'm holding steady at 9.5dkh

I'm just going to leave things alone for a while and see what happens.

 

[allsps40]

good plan

 

[Donniegnzls]

I don’t want to beat a dead horse but… you have to get multiple test kits. Salifert. Especially if you’re dosing. Like you I used the API and if I had it to do it over again Salifert tests would have been my very first purchase. Even before I bought my tank. They have paid for themselves. I have heard of people getting a bad test kit so I use LaMotte as a secondary test just to make sure my salifert is inline. So far I have not had a bad kit and LaMotte is right there with my Salifert.

When I got my salifert test kit it read 420 PPM cal and 7.0 DKH. I then did a test with API using the same batch of water and it read 600 PPM Cal. and 6 DKH. API phosphate read 0 and Nitrate read 0. Hanna Phosphate Checker .07 Salifert Nitrate 10 PPM. I could confirm that the Hanna was accurate from the algae in the tank. In conclusion, I will never ever use API again. Ever!

You could potentially be over dosing your tank or not be dosing enough and you wouldn’t even know it. On the other hand your API tests could be correct and I just got two bad API reef test kits.

Suggestions if money is tight:

Take your water to a marine/reef store and have them test it. Call around and find one that uses good tests like Salifert.

Find a reef club in your area, join and ask if someone will test your water for you.

Buy one salifert test of either Calcium or DKH and compare it to your API. If it matches up you can be more confident about the others.