Need Help Identifying Gem Tang Behavior/Sickness

[The.SE]

Good evening everyone,
I am searching for help as to what I can do to help identify and treat a potential issue with my Gem Tang.

I have a newly upgraded 150 gallon saltwater aquarium which I put together this year with a very small amount of fish who all seem very peaceful with one another, 1 gem, 1 clown, 1 small blue tang, randal assessor, diamond goby and royal gramma and literally three small pieces of coral, a small red mushroom colony from my previous tank, a tiny piece of ricordia on a plate (which I would like to see grow!) and a small fox coral. Eventually, I would like to grow my tank but first, stability. Which comes to my issue.

I currently have a Gem tang which I purchased from my lfs after watching him for a year of not being taken home (yes a year!) He was fat and looked healthy and I felt was pretty harty at this point (this isn't blamming the lfs, moreso just stating that I knew the tang was healthy as I spent a long time observing him while praying noone bought him!) I have had him now since March of this year and he seemed to be doing relatively fine. Within the last (atleast) two weeks I noticed that he was getting some small discoloration on his dorsal and pelvic fins. I attributed this at first to perhaps him swimming through the rocks and sandbed as he likes to go underneath the rocks sometimes. However, within the last few days I noticed his dorsal and pelvic fins are now looking torn/worn and his tail is slightly torn. His behavior within the last 24 hours has me worried as well as I feel he has become a picky eater. I have given him purple nori (which he would devour) and now ignores as well as a combination of frozen mysis and rods food which I have not seen him eat. He seems to seclude himself a bit now and peeks out if he sees me but otherwise, remains hidden. I took a video over the weekend and pardon the quality. I hope it's enough to identify what he may (if anything) have and what I can do. I don't want to be frantic and throw everything at him and am looking for help from my fellow reefing community. What I have done within the last 24 hours preemptively is make a small food slurry of GC x Focus w/ epsom, selcon and entice with both my usual frozen food as well as pellets (which I normally dont do) just to try to get the tang to eat incase it may be internal. Hard to tell on a Gem but I don't believe I see any ich and aside from the areas I specified and I see no other odd behavior from the rest of my fish. I hope the video can shed any light. (Also, I should mention that in the video when I got him, his mouth is receded a little so he does look a little derpy...but I love him!)

My water parameters are:
Ph: 8.0-8.1
Salinity: 35ppt
Temp: 77.5
Nitrate: 12.8
Phosphate: 1.0
Ammonia: 0

If there is anything else the community would like me to provide, please let me know what I can do.

~Julian

 

[JohnL]

@Dr. Reef @HumbleFish any ideas?

 

[Dr. Reef]

I did not notice any ich or velvet in the video, Its tail and fins looked very clear and no salt like specks were seen on the fins or tail, I am getting old eyes are weekening so i could be wrong but i couldnt see any. It might be coming down with some sort of bacterial or viral infection. Antibiotics can help cure bacterial, no cure for viral except fish vitamins like selcon can help fish get heathy and may be able to fight it off. if its internal, prazipro and fenbendazole can take care of that. Maybe other can chime in better on it.

 

[The.SE]

I did not notice any ich or velvet in the video, Its tail and fins looked very clear and no salt like specks were seen on the fins or tail, I am getting old eyes are weekening so i could be wrong but i couldnt see any. It might be coming down with some sort of bacterial or viral infection. Antibiotics can help cure bacterial, no cure for viral except fish vitamins like selcon can help fish get heathy and may be able to fight it off. if its internal, prazipro and fenbendazole can take care of that. Maybe other can chime in better on it.

Hi Dr. Reef,
No, I am sure your eyes are fine and it's my poor videography skills. I appreciate your insight and attempt to make sense of my video. Thank you to @JohnL for noticing my post and directing you to me as well. I am very appreciative.

As you say, I suspect that it is coming down with "something" whether bacterial or viral and so, I will continue to monitor and treat using a combination of api cure (unless you or others state otherwise) x selcon supplements via ingestion for the prescribed days in hopes I see it improve and give an update.

So far, its still fighting the good fight and I fed a little bit of medicated pellets to the tank but it remained hiding but I suspect 1. I don't normally feed in the mornings so it wasn't preparing for it and 2. lights were off. I see it peeking in and out throughout the day so fingers crossed!

I will update if it worsens or if it gets better!

Thank you everyone!
~Julian

 

[HumbleFish]

@The.SE Are you noticing any of these behavioral symptoms??

• Heavy breathing, scratching, flashing, head twitching, yawning, erratic swimming behavior
• Swimming into the flow of a water pump/wavemaker/powerhead
• Acting reclusive

 

[The.SE]

Good afternoon @HumbleFish and thank you very much for your reply as well!

My Gem definitely has been acting reclusive and yesterday with lights on I did notice heavy breathing while he remained in the back corner of my tank.

Interestingly my tiny royal blue tang, while I have not seen any visible signs of stress and no heavy breathing and has a nice full belly especially from the increased (medicated) feedings I have been giving the tank, I notice he often likes to swim into the flow of my pumps and I watch him get pushed half way to the middle of the tank (which I thought he was doing for amusement!).

~Julian

 

[HumbleFish]

My Gem definitely has been acting reclusive and yesterday with lights on I did notice heavy breathing while he remained in the back corner of my tank.

Is he still breathing heavily? If so, this suggests that a possible pathogen (usually a parasite or worm) is afflicting the fish's gills. I don't think it's anything environmental since you reported that all your other fish seem fine. Fish diseases can take awhile to spread from fish to fish.

 

[The.SE]

Is he still breathing heavily? If so, this suggests that a possible pathogen (usually a parasite or worm) is afflicting the fish's gills. I don't think it's anything environmental since you reported that all your other fish seem fine. Fish diseases can take awhile to spread from fish to fish.

I just took a peek at him and watched his gills and while he seems to be a bit more active (I think he suspects I am searching for him so he's making it difficult for me to observe, haha) I believe he still is breathing rapidly and seems to still be a bit reclusive.

 

[Dr. Reef]

are you using carbon in the system? aggression that you may not know off? you said fins were torn. maybe someone is bullying it that you are not seeing.

 

[The.SE]

Hi everyone,
I'm sad to report my Gem didn't make it. I'm heart broken. I did a visual examination and that is not saying much and honestly, didn't have the heart to perform an autopsy (which is why i'm not in the medical field). But it does make me wonder if there is something parasitic that is going on.

Small rant on myself. This is quite unusual being the second fish I lost in a month. A beautiful lyrtail anthias that I also loved, I lost "mysteriously." I honestly feel so frustrated that I want to walk away from the hobby. I was/am trying to slowly build a beautiful reef tank where coral and fish can thrive but losing this Gem, which was doing so well before I had it...well anyways, I will take a few steps back, concentrate on what I have and I probably will spend some time reflecting and figuring out what I can do to make my existing infrastructure better before adding any new life.

@Dr.Reef i'm not sure who would/could be the bully but anything is probable, right? I know the OG clown of my tank has bully tendencies (she use to chase my lyretail anthias around in my smaller tank) but ever since I added my tiny royal blue tang and upgraded, it seemed to become less aggressive and/or more tolerant.

Anyways everyone I deeply appreciate the support. Seeing the fast reaction from the community on this post actually helps to make me want to continue and be better.

~Julian

 

[Dr. Reef]

I am sorry to hear that. That was fairly quick for a hardy fish to pass. Did the anthias die with any red blotches or sores on its body? Was the hippo Quarantined before placing in the tank?

 

[Dr. Reef]

Regarding aggression, I sold a lady several fish and she would call me every few days and report a dead fish. I was puzzled and no obvious signs of disease or any telltale signs were observed so it was very frustrating.
I replaced some of her fish and again every few days a fish died.
Eventually she put a camera on the tank and we observed that every 3rd day she fed a different food for corals and the black and white clownfish went nuts and started biting every fish that came close the food and it took a chunk out of firfish and another clown killing them. We had to remove it and she never had a fish die after.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Once you have your tank figured out and would like to replace that Gem. I have about a dozen of them. I will sell it to you at my cost. If you are interested. Let me know.

 

[JohnL]

I'm sad to report my Gem didn't make it.

I'm sorry

 

[The.SE]

@Dr. Reef

Yes, I was quite shocked to be honest. But upon reflecting, I noticed that its behavior changed (in my opinion) perhaps a week or two ago. I use to see it swimming in the morning but it started hiding more and it would come out much later in the day, but at the time it was eating still, seemed active and again I didn't want to overreact as my royal blue hippo likes to sleep in (it likes to squeeze in between one of the cracks in my rockscape) and doesn't usually come out until around 9-10am? So I figured the Gem staying in was more of a non issue. It wasn't until the last few days that I started noticing more that it was being more of a recluse with lights on and then the last 48 hours it stopped eating despite me trying with medicated food. I was just about to prepare a fresh water x copper bath this morning when it passed. I wanted a Gem for years, saved and bought this new bigger tank just for it. The thought I couldn't save it truly is a downer. As far as QTing yes, I used the safety stop method and then placed it in a lone 10 gallon.

That's quite an interesting story regarding the "devil" clownfish. I love my ocellaris but it is a little B....I notice my little royal blue tang likes to get a bit close to my clown occasionally and I am a mixture of panicked and amused because the clown doesn't seem to like that and will try to nip at the Tang but the Tang doesn't seem to mind too much. I remember when I did the transfer from my old tank to this new one, my royal blue tang was in such shock it stayed in a corner and just laid there and my clown didn't leave its side until it started swimming. So it does care..I think? haha...I will have to try to set up a monitor to look for any signs of aggression.

As far as my anthias, it's interesting that you ask because, and it is pretty graphic to describe but at the time up to its death that day. I didn't notice much in the morning but when lights came on in the later afternoon, I noticed it wasn't actively swimming and immediately became worried so when I found it, its tail was badly shredded which I attributed to some type of aggression and it went into hiding for the remainder of the day. I was not sure what to do and didn't intervene not knowing if by intervening I was going to stress it further so I kept a watchful eye. However, by the end of the evening it didn't make it and the CUC was starting to pick at it sensing it was on deaths door. By the time I got to it, it was missing half its scales from the midsection down, just showing its flesh and it was still breathing so I caught it and basically stayed with it until it took its last breath. As I was observing the lower portion I saw maybe one or two tiny red blotches. I thought that might have been blood? Was it something else?

Thank you for your kindness. I would love to get another Gem and would love to get one from you. At this point, I only have 5 small fish in my tank so I could use more but I will wait a short bit while I reset and then would love to chat with you more, if that is ok?

~Julian

 

[The.SE]

I'm sorry

Thank you for your kindness and thank you for connecting me with wonderful people

 

[Dr. Reef]

Thank you for your kindness. I would love to get another Gem and would love to get one from you. At this point, I only have 5 small fish in my tank so I could use more but I will wait a short bit while I reset and then would love to chat with you more, if that is ok?

Yes absolutely, I would wait it out just to make sure nothing is lingering in your tank before we add more expensive fish or any fish as a matter of fact. I have a contest going on every month and we are giving away gems or gift cards so i have plenty of stock on gems. Just let me know when you are ready and will be happy to help and trust me you will like the price of gem when we come down to it.

 

[McReefer Nista]

This is a fantastic saga. Sorry about the loss. I had a emperor purple tang. Her name was Tang-aray. She and her buddie (a Powder Blue Tang) by the name of M. Belvidere were starting to act weird. Flashing a lot. Going against the current in the wave makers and whatever else they could. My husband had come home and plopped in a fox face that I was not happy about (to say the least) and its eyes were foggy, he would go up and down the sides of the tank. So I starting reading and whatnot. Ick was present, but I was brought to the conclusion they had velvet. That was a terrible time and I waited too long before I realized that they had velvet. I tried t o treat them and still was no use. I had a dwarf fire angel too. They all suffered and succumbed to their deaths. The two tangs never left each other sides and was so horrible I quit the hobby for almost a year. I cried for them daily, could not talk about them and my husband suffered my rath, they were my babies. So I have learned alot, loved alot more, lost some more, but I still love the whole fish thing and get my but kicked very so often. I quarantine everything and have now rebuilt two tanks and trying to get them thriving again. This story was touching in so many ways and kindness was consoling. Thank you for sharing and inspiring me. There are good reefers and you are all exceptional reefers indeed!

~~McReefer Nista

 

[McReefer Nista]

This is a fantastic saga. Sorry about the loss. I had a emperor purple tang. Her name was Tang-aray. She and her buddie (a Powder Blue Tang) by the name of Mr. Belvidere were starting to act weird. Flashing a lot. Going against the current in the wave makers and whatever else they could. My husband had come home and plopped in a fox face that I was not happy about (to say the least) and its eyes were foggy, he would go up and down the sides of the tank. So I starting reading and whatnot. Ick was present, but I was brought to the conclusion they had velvet. That was a terrible time and I waited too long before I realized that they had velvet. I tried to treat them and still was no use. I had a dwarf fire angel too. They all suffered and succumbed to their deaths. The two tangs never left each other sides and was so horrible I quit the hobby for almost a year. I cried for them daily, could not talk about them and my husband suffered my rath, they were my babies. This tropical fish store I never went to had sold my husband a very sick animal. He took back to the place and they gave his money back, took the fish, RO'd it and tossed it into another tank to resell. I could not believe they could do such a thing. I wanted to take a sledge hammer to all their front windows but I knew better. I could do nothing but complain to the public about the harm they were doing to animals and others should they go to purchase anything from them.. So I have learned a lot, loved a lot more, lost some more, but I still love the whole fish thing and get my butt kicked every so often. I quarantine everything and have now rebuilt two tanks and trying to get them thriving again. This story was touching in so many ways and kindness was consoling. Thank you for sharing and inspiring me. There are good reefers and you are all exceptional reefers indeed!

~~McReefer Nista

 

[The.SE]

This community is really something, right @McReefer Nista ? Thank you for your words and thank you for sharing your story as well. I am also sorry for your losses. While it seems like it was awhile ago for you, you understand that doesn't mean you will ever forget your beloved pets. While it's great we get chances for "do overs" it still comes at costs and I seriously beat myself up about losing fish. I still have not replaced my Anthias and Gem that I lost recently. Instead, concentrating on fixing up the tank. I just built a top to prevent any floor surfing fish. I purchased a reefmat and have to research modding my sump so I can install it. I still have a spaghetti cord mess on the floor that I need to clean up and I want to do a redesign of my aquascape.

So alot more to do and I definitely will reach out to Dr. Reef when the time is right. Nice to meet you as well!

~Julian