Need help with sump water level

[jtisle506]

So this is my first tank with a sump. Its been running for about a month and a half but was used with all my old non-drilled tank. Everything was put in brutes and transferred over. I had an acrylic sump made but probably dint get exactly what i was looking for however the requirements that were needed were ridiculous so needless to say im not mad in anyway I just wish I planned it more and did more research on sumps before I proceeded. The tank is run on a herbie method with both of the drilled holes as drains of course one as a emergency and then the water is then pumped back up with the use of the new Ecotech DC Vectra M1. I am running that on the 4th notch of 12 possible so about 1/3 of max flow. I am running into an issue however. I wanted to up the flow however when I ran it around 2/3 the power of the pump the return area would be so low however I had to restrict the gate valve so it would rise to the emergency and quiet so I had alot of volume in the sump so that it would keep up with the return, however doing so it put the height around 10ish inches in the sump. My skimmer is optimal around 7-8. Therefore I need to run the pump at max speed so that i have alot of water movement but I need to make it so its not so much that the return area cannot keep up and the sump has to be very high to keep up with it. Now here is my issue. I dropped the speed of the pump back to 1/3 of the speed. When my water goes into my filter sock and goes through my main chamber where my skimmer, and 2 pumps to feed my reactors are, theres a small gap to a refugium area then an over/under area to my return(see pictures). The problem is there is a sponge in that area thats causing problems. I dont really need the bubble trap or the sponge to catch bubbles but there to stop cheato from getting caught in the impeller of the return. However when i remove that sponge the water level is constant in all 3 chambers but when I put it in flow is restricted and the return fluctuates. When that sponge gets clogged the return area gets less water and my ATO pumps water in when realistically it is not evaporation but really just less flow. Like i said i want to run the sump at 7-8 but with this sponge its really random depending on how much gets clogged in the sponge. Should i run it without the sponge and risk the cheato clogging the return or should I keep the sponge and try to rotate it like filter socks. It just seems as the return area is just really random and when it adds water my sump level just keeps rising. Its all very confusing. Seems as though its the sponge that is causing it. Less flow due to restriction and then the sump level rises but then the return area loses flow and water is being pumped in and the sump level continues to rise. Im just trying to get it consistent but it seems as though I cannot keep it consistent. Im just scared as the ato will pump too much water in and the sump will rise too much and overflow the skimmer because of the restriction of the sponge and on top of that I cant even run the skimmer efficiently right now. Its all very chaotic sorry for ranting but im just trying to get everything needed across. Other info its a 75 gallon tank with about 20 gallon sump. Running a RLSS skimmer 3 reactors (gfo, carbon, biopellets) I have a tunze ATO in the return area with a sensor and float. Everything is controlled by an apex. 3 Gallon top off container. Ill include pictures. Right where the over under is into the return is about 6.5inches I want to run the sump about an inch above that over baffle. I was just messing with the tank because I heard alot of water being pumped in so i look and the sump height is 3 inches above that overr under you may be able to see water mark but the return area is really low. Its just killing me to get this thing consistent but it seems as though it just keeps fluctuating. Plus I have work tomorrow so im scared to keep it running like. BTW the Vectra runs at 2000gph so im running at about 700gph minus headloss.

 

[jtisle506]

Top off container is the blue acrylic container to the right of the sump

 

[Coelli]

Would raising the skimmer on a platform solve your problem?

 

[daquan44]

I would remove the sponge and cheato. The sponge will always cause your sump to fluctuate as it clogs with detritus. One headache you don't need. You can get a HOG algae scrubber, or find another area for your macro algae. Something simple like a Rubbermaid bin can be used to plumb inline with your sump to hold the chaeto.

 

[jtisle506]

Raising the skimmer was a thought but the dump was designed perfectly to get the skimmer cup off. If I raise it I cannot get the cup out. Also I cannot get the actual skimmer out and it would be a huge headache to even raise it at this point with eggcrate. As for the algae scrubber I feel as though they are almost a waste as I've seen them and are extremely over priced. Also I have literally no room for anymore equipment. My stand is packed to the T with reactors, dosing vials etc... and anything remote is out of question. I was debating finding some sponge in bulk and just cutting sheets every month. I want to keep the fuge but don't want to ruin my return.

 

[wrott]

So w/out the sponge and the pump at full blast everything is ok, i.e. your drain holes are large enough?
If so, you can roll-up some mesh in place of the sponge to catch debris:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Amerimax...20-ft-Black-Roll-Gutter-Guard-85198/202962716

Just roll it up and shove it in there, should do the trick. And it wouldn't be the end of world if a chunk of algae or small bits did go through the pump. If you're afraid of that, then I would remove the cheato and forget about it.

 

[dkeller_nc]

First thing to try is to remove the sponge, cut it in half or thirds length-wise, and only use a piece of it. Since you're only using the sponge to prevent debris from entering the pump, you don't need the full depth of the sponge, and forcing all of the water through the depth of the sponge that you pictured will result in the water level being very sensitive to its cleanliness.

It also appears from your picture that you're missing a baffle; there should be a less-than-full-depth baffle after your first baffle on the skimmer chamber. In other words, it should be set-up so that the water height in the skimmer chamber cannot fluctuate, regardless of the water depth in the bubble trap or return chamber.

 

[jtisle506]

Yeah the sump was designed relatively poorly. Way to much space in the first chamber and not enough space for a refugium and not enough baffles/bubble traps. If I take out the sponge and replace it with something like gutter guard and run the sumo at the same level constant with every chamber it won't hurt anything correct? I'd rather have some substance in the baffle where the sump is so that the return area is the only area that fluctuates to evaporation.

 

[ca1ore]

You don't ever want something that can clog to completely span the sump. If you want to continue to use the sponge, you'll need to rig some kind of bypass for flow as it clogs. Best would be simply to stop using it. Gutter guard works fine to keep chaeto strands out if the pump - and you can easily see when it requires clearing.

 

[jtisle506]

Alright I'm gonna switch to a finer gutter guard. Running the sump at a level that is constant throughout is fine right? I would have my ago in the return but the entire sumo would flucuate. I don't see a problem running the water level the same in each chamber but I was just checking.

 

[Flippers4pups]

"It also appears from your picture that you're missing a baffle; there should be a less-than-full-depth baffle after your first baffle on the skimmer chamber. In other words, it should be set-up so that the water height in the skimmer chamber cannot fluctuate, regardless of the water depth in the bubble trap or return chamber." Dkeller is right.

The sump was designed incorrectly. Since it's acrylic, cutting it would be a major pain. I would dump the sump and start over the right way. Otherwise it will be a pain to maintain proper water level in the sump. The minute the power goes out to the return pump and comes back on, the skimmer will go nuts and overflow.

 

[jtisle506]

The skimmer overflowing isn't an issue. I have code written into my apex when the return gets shut of or power is lost the skimmer turns off and then has a 5 minute delay to restart. That's not an issue. I just wish i had the sumo designed way more efficiently. Any idea how much a sump around my size would cost? 36x20x18 obo. I don't really want to redo the sump but I've been debating.

 

[jtisle506]

I took out the sump and added gutter guard. The sumo is at constant level in all 3 chambers but with the auto an apex I don't think it's an issue. My other quick question is that when I turn off my return my water rises in the sump from back syphon but then there's some detritus in the return area that gets put in suspension so when I turn the return back on its being pushed into the display. I'm having problems with phosphates could this be contributing to the issue?

 

[wrott]

Buy a 40g breeder at petco for 1$/g when on sale. glue 4-5 baffles 1/4" to make a good cheap sump. It doesn't need to be pretty, buy 2-3 tubes of aquarium silicon from HD, let it dry 2 days--good to go.