Neptune Apex. Worth it and your thoughts?

[CindyK]

Thank you to EVERYONE for your thoughtful responses; this was exactly the sort of input I was hoping for.

So it sounds like the pros are ease of equipment control, remote alerts, instant access to parameters.

Cons: single point of failure, initial cost, lack of built-in redundancy (which, if you decide you want it, further increases cost).

Thanks again, great food for thought.

 

[ca1ore]

The single point of failure is the central controller, whether APEX, reefkeeper or Ted's Awesome Reef Controllitator. Not saying with a modern controller that many of the cons of yesteryear haven't been overcome; heck I use one. I just think it is foolish to to put 'too many eggs' in that single basket.

Edit: one of my New Years resolutions is to use more idioms ....

 

[ktownhero]

I don't have experience with the Apex, so I can't speak on the subject of the "single point of failure" on that type of system.

As far as the ReefKeeper goes, when you are setting up your power bars, you set default settings for each outlet if the controller itself gets disconnected or dies.

You do the same for the Apex.

 

[risin]

Worth every penny. If I couldn't have one I would tear the tank down.

 

[jonwright]

Spof is why I gave a Profilux. It has individual cards that can be replaced in case of a single component failure. You can also configure outlets to be on or off in case the compute unit loses power or goes out.

Mine doses, ATO, and temp (heaters and fans). It's nice to know what the ph is and know that I know what's going on. I have a AWC process with a stenner pump also with float valve that won't let the pump run when the new sea water tank is low. It also runs solenoids so that when I'm filling the new sea water tank and the ATO calls for water it shuts down the nsw water and allows the ATO to run.

I also have a timer to turn off the skimmer only if I want to feed the corals. Plus a few different feeding programs. This turns off pumps and varies the powerheads to my wishes. It also controls the power heads for wave/random action.

All this is done in a single interface which is very convenient.

Plus stuff like turning off the mh lights if the tank gets too hot, alarms for ATO running too long, alarms for ph swings, etc etc. it won't run ATO if salinity is too low, skimmer delay whenever the main pump is turned off for any reason. Stuff like that.

Plus it can do AWC for you with a couple pumps and float valves with its default programming.

Kinda like a bunch of stuff just adds up after a while to hopefully take some of the tedious tasks go quicker and it's there always watching to keep things in check.

Having said that, is all that worth $1,000? I did the math. You can do all that with individual components, yeah. It's a bit cheaper to llet your computer do it all for you. (Temp, dose, wave, ATO,). And I'm really not worried about my entire unit going castors up. I may need to replace the ph interface card, but I don't have to send the entire unit back.

So yeah. I'm good with it. I bought all of my stuff used so...I'm very happy.

 

[Grayhead]

I control almost everything with my apex. It alerts me if my top off tank is low as we'll as the salt mix tank. I can remotely fill both tanks. The key to critical components is redundency. I have a tunze ato, but have it plugged into the apex power strip. At feed time, it shuts down the skimmer, ato, adjust the powerheads, and has everything set for delay start-ups. It's not that I can't do all this manually. But if I'm out of town, my wife or tank sitter can handle the tank without the worry for following a series of instructions. To me, the biggest concern I have is if something happens with my internet connection. I have to restart the router every so often. But even then, I have my apex hard-wired to the modem. Here is a brief list of things I do with my apex
2 salinity probes, one for tank and other for salt mix
3 DOS units one for awc and 2 for dosing cal, all, mag, and carbon. I use the containers that DOS recommends. It will remind me if one gets low
Controls all lighting to included custom programs for LEDs
Lunar lighting
Controls 3 seperate pumps for feeding the tank and media reacters
Skimmer, fuge lighting, temp x 2, pH, par, leak detection x 4, remote operation of rodi(all backed up with electronic as we'll as manual float switches)
Gyres and WAV powerheads running synchronized programming.
I will be purchasing a seperate head unit for the apex that will be fully programmed in the event something happens to my existing head unit.
I also like the aspect of the fusion programming. You can record all your parameters. Also look at the reading via grafts and overlay them for comparison. If my pH goes up, it knows to shut my all dosing off. I can see when that happens. Sure, there is alot of candy you can purchase with a controller, but if you have a complex set-up, it's almost needed. That's why they ake the controllers to be entry level all the way to extreme complexity. If I was more versed in the coding, I would have more features added to my system.

 

[CindyK]

I control almost everything with my apex. It alerts me if my top off tank is low as we'll as the salt mix tank. I can remotely fill both tanks. The key to critical components is redundency. I have a tunze ato, but have it plugged into the apex power strip. At feed time, it shuts down the skimmer, ato, adjust the powerheads, and has everything set for delay start-ups. It's not that I can't do all this manually. But if I'm out of town, my wife or tank sitter can handle the tank without the worry for following a series of instructions. To me, the biggest concern I have is if something happens with my internet connection. I have to restart the router every so often. But even then, I have my apex hard-wired to the modem. Here is a brief list of things I do with my apex
2 salinity probes, one for tank and other for salt mix
3 DOS units one for awc and 2 for dosing cal, all, mag, and carbon. I use the containers that DOS recommends. It will remind me if one gets low
Controls all lighting to included custom programs for LEDs
Lunar lighting
Controls 3 seperate pumps for feeding the tank and media reacters
Skimmer, fuge lighting, temp x 2, pH, par, leak detection x 4, remote operation of rodi(all backed up with electronic as we'll as manual float switches)
Gyres and WAV powerheads running synchronized programming.
I will be purchasing a seperate head unit for the apex that will be fully programmed in the event something happens to my existing head unit.
I also like the aspect of the fusion programming. You can record all your parameters. Also look at the reading via grafts and overlay them for comparison. If my pH goes up, it knows to shut my all dosing off. I can see when that happens. Sure, there is alot of candy you can purchase with a controller, but if you have a complex set-up, it's almost needed. That's why they ake the controllers to be entry level all the way to extreme complexity. If I was more versed in the coding, I would have more features added to my system.

Thank you for listing all of the functions you use. If you don't the mind my asking, how many additional components (after the initial apex purchase) did you have to buy to do all of that?

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[Grayhead]

The apex classic comes with pH,temp,ed8. Each option comes as modules. The new models come with different modes included

 

[hkgar]

This is a great thread. I've considered pulling the plug on a controller also, and read multiple threads in which reefers swear by their controller but don't really say why, only that they wouldn't set up a tank without one. Can some of you please continue to explain what exactly you can do with your controller that you weren't previously doing with timers, etc, other than remote monitoring? (I get how getting an email at work would from your Apex if something is wrong would be extremely comforting).

I feel that many of the functions of a controller already exist on my tank and it makes me question whether the money is worth it. For example:



My vortechs are wireless, and they go into feed mode at the touch of a button - either I push a button on my apex or on my vortech, I'm standing right there feeding them so what's the difference? My temp is controlled by my heater setup. My ATO is controlled, well, by my ATO, I'm not sure what you do to "control" an ATO other than make sure the reservoir has water in it. Ditto the skimmer...what do you do to control it? It just runs. Most lights have a built in timer.

I'm not criticizing anyone who spends the money on a controller in any way - in fact it's the opposite. I'm trying to understand how it is value added when it seems that most of the benefits it provides are already intrinsic to the products we buy, and I would love for someone to help me understand because I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get email alerts if something goes out of whack while I'm away, but I can't justify spending $700 for that

One of the things I really liked about my Apex was how it controlled my Vortechs. Way more control over what you can do with the Vortechs.

 

[hkgar]

Just the ability for the Apex to monitor many of the parameters and take actions if something goes wrong and send me an email telling me what is out of wack. Temp, ph, SG, water leaks. I also have a reeftronics.net account so I get notified if the Apex is down for more than an hour.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I have one... in my closet. It was free and I still can't justify the time, let alone the expense (for other people) to set one up.

I think it's funny that an Apex can give me parameters I pay little or no attention to, like salinity, pH and temp. And to feed I have to push 3 or 4 buttons to turn off pumps and skimmer rather than just 1 with an Apex. Yeah, that's worth a $500 to $1000 investment.

After 12 years in the hobby I have most of the things an Apex can help with already covered. If it could give me Ca, alk and Mg parameters, it would be doing something great!

 

[homer1475]

I think it's funny that an Apex can give me parameters I pay little or no attention to, like salinity, pH and temp. And to feed I have to push 3 or 4 buttons to turn off pumps and skimmer rather than just 1 with an Apex. Yeah, that's worth a $500 to $1000 investment.

So what happens when you forget to turn the pumps back on? I've done that more times then I can count, luckily I remembered a couple hours later.

I never thought I would use an apex either, until I got one. I would never do another tank without one. Mine does everthing from controlling my heaters(finnex titanium without its own thermostat), to ramping my lights, to controlling my vortechs and jeboas, to turning cabinet lights on and off when I open the doors. Along with various alarms and alerts, the ability to turn anything plugged into it off or on from anywhere in the world is invaluable in my eyes.

 

[gone fishin]

I have one... in my closet. It was free and I still can't justify the time, let alone the expense (for other people) to set one up.

I think it's funny that an Apex can give me parameters I pay little or no attention to, like salinity, pH and temp. And to feed I have to push 3 or 4 buttons to turn off pumps and skimmer rather than just 1 with an Apex. Yeah, that's worth a $500 to $1000 investment.

After 12 years in the hobby I have most of the things an Apex can help with already covered. If it could give me Ca, alk and Mg parameters, it would be doing something great!

I agree with Ron, if it could tell me Ca, alk and Mg parameters I would be all over it.
My lights have their own controllers, once they were dialed in I have not adjusted them since. My Ranco temp controller has worked fine for many years, I just recently replaced the probe,$12. The gyres have there own controller once I found a setting I liked I have not touched it. Tunze ATO takes care of itself. Light timers for dosing pumps. I have not checked my pH in about 5 years and I check my salinity when I do WC's. If I am on Vacation I have a pretty capable tanksitter.

 

[whiteshark]

I couldn't live without it. I use it for Temp and pH monitoring (included), as an ATO, to separately control 4 T5's, as a heater controller, to monitor my tank via webcam, and to alert me if anything shuts down or something is out of whack. It's so incredibly convenient. I got mine lightly used for a good deal and would never go back to the days before I used it.

 

[ktownhero]

I have one... in my closet. It was free and I still can't justify the time, let alone the expense (for other people) to set one up.

I think it's funny that an Apex can give me parameters I pay little or no attention to, like salinity, pH and temp. And to feed I have to push 3 or 4 buttons to turn off pumps and skimmer rather than just 1 with an Apex. Yeah, that's worth a $500 to $1000 investment.

After 12 years in the hobby I have most of the things an Apex can help with already covered. If it could give me Ca, alk and Mg parameters, it would be doing something great!

If all you think it is for are a few probe readings and a feed button, then it certainly has no place in your set up. But the fact that you either don't have a use for it, or don't care to find a use for it, doesn't make it something that you can just simply write-off for anyone and everyone.

And I'd be happy to take any Apex accessories (like an eb8!) you have in that closet laying around

 

[whiteshark]

If all you think it is for are a few probe readings and a feed button, then it certainly has no place in your set up. But the fact that you either don't have a use for it, or don't care to find a use for it, doesn't make it something that you can just simply write-off for anyone and everyone.

It does seem tailored to the person that likes to tinker or DIY.

I generally build all my own light fixtures and like to have independent control of certain bulbs. No built in timers. To put each one on a timer would create an inconvenient pile of unreliable timers. Instead I can just plug them all into the Apex and set each bulb to turn on and off exactly when I want them to. I can also have the Apex turn them all off if the tank temperature gets too high.

Being able to manually turn things on and off remotely is quite convenient as well. If someone is home and hears a pump making an odd noise, I can shut it down myself via the Apex instead of hoping they pull the correct cord.

Can you live without an Apex? Sure. Do I think they are overpriced? Absolutely. Just like literally everything in this hobby. But if you can swing it, I definitely think it's worth it.

 

[Mike de Leon]

I have two XR30 G4 Radions and realized how nice it is to be able to control it. There seem to be so much more with lights than meets the eye. I can adjust this light for acclimatization, colour and so on.
I had a Maxspect razor that had a simple controller, not even close.
If I am able to do this with the rest of the equipment it would be worthwhile.

Only people who has them can truly attest to how well they work based on experience. Outsiders like me only speculate. But I will be pulling the trigger when the fund comes in! :O)

 

[MrsReefK]

I would never go without again. The fail safes relieve any anxiety of human error. Yes, there's still room for error on how you set it up, but well worth it. I am on the road a lot for work, not sure my tank would be as much of a success if I didn't have my apex.


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[Ron Reefman]

If all you think it is for are a few probe readings and a feed button, then it certainly has no place in your set up. But the fact that you either don't have a use for it, or don't care to find a use for it, doesn't make it something that you can just simply write-off for anyone and everyone.

And I'd be happy to take any Apex accessories (like an eb8!) you have in that closet laying around

I never said there isn't a use for it, or that it's a write off for everyone. Please don't put words in my mouth. You spent good money for your Apex and you're a proud owner, but you don't have to be so defensive of somebody with a different opinion. I simply don't find it useful for me given the cost. That's what the OP asked for, our opinions! And pH and temp monitoring haven't been an issue for me over the last 10 years! My lights, pumps, chillers, ATO and dosing pumps all have their own controllers.

 

[Joe0813]

I need to just suck it up and buy one already