sleepydoc
Team RC
I ordered a Neptune ATK and hooked it up a few days ago and thought I'd post my first impressions.
As background, I have no controller but am planning on getting one within the next several months and have basically decided on an Apex. I currently have a Tunze Osmolator that has been working perfect (except for one time when I failed to keep the optical sensor clean ;Facepalm)
Setup/Configuration
Setup was very easy and is about as plug-and-play as you can get - mount the bracket in your sump, plug the two sensor cables into the FMM box. Connect the tubing to the pump and the float valve. Plug the pump into the FMM box, and plug in the power supply. I haven't mounted the box yet, but the entire process took less than 10 minutes and a pretty blue light was glowing, telling me my system was ready to go. The magnetic holder held well and has a rubberized backing to prevent slipping. The magnet doesn't feel as the Tunze's, but it's working fine on my 40b sump.
The system is designed to be used out of the box in stand alone mode, but can also be connected to an Apex controller. The controller connection gives more options for alerts, configuration and disables the IQ Fill functionality.
'IQ fill' - from the description and comments from @Terence, The FMM takes a running average of the last 5 top off run times. If the system runs for more than twice this average it says something's wrong and triggers an alarm.
FMM inputs - #'s 1 & 2 are used by the optical sensors. 3 & 4 can be used for a leak detection probe and a ATO reservoir level sensor respectively. If these are connected then the unit will shut off the pump when a leak is detected or the water level drops below the sensor.
Alarms - there are 4 ways to trigger an alarm (that I know of,) all of which shut off the pump and make the unit beep. (note that the number of beeps corresponds to the port to which the corresponding sensor is connected - a nice touch)
Performance/use
In the few days I've used it, it seems to do a good job of maintaining my sump level. Just eyeballing the volume change in the return chamber it appears that the Neptune ATK has a slightly larger volume swing than the Tunze osmolator did, but it's not a huge difference and definitely not enough to matter. I'd estimate the water level change to be around 5mm for the ATK vs 3 mm for the Tunze, or approx 600ml vs 400ml. Just to check, I pulled up on the float valve as it was filling and it does indeed stop the flow of water as one would expect.
The PMUP pump is definitely quieter than the Tunze pump. It also is easier to keep upright and will prime itself without me reaching into the sump to shake the bubbles out like I had to do with the Tunze pump. Flow wise it's about the same. I think the flow of the PMUP is likely better but it gets restricted by the float valve. I also haven't trimmed the tubing yet.
Yesterday I did a 15 gallon water change for which I close the valve on the return pump & turn it off, turn off the skimmer and let the contents of the C2C overflow siphon down to the sump, causing the sump level to rise a couple of inches. After 10 minutes, the FMM began to beep, as expected. Once the water change was complete, I waited to see if the beeping would stop. Even after waiting a few hours and letting the sump level drop it still didn't stop beeping. A quick check on the web site confirmed that once an alarm is triggered you have to unplug the device to reset it.
Some people have asked about using other pumps. If you have an Apex you could of course use one of the switched ports. If you're using as a standalone system and want something besides the PMUP pump, you either need to find another 24V pump (kind of an unusual voltage for a pump,) use a step-down transformer, or rig a relay to control a 120V pump.
Impressions:
Compared to the Tunze osmolator there are some definite advantages & disadvantages.
The ability to easily add a leak detection sensor and ATO reservoir sensor is very nice, and would be nice to have on the Tunze, especially since priming the Tunze pump is a bit annoying. With a bit of tinkering, I think you could do the same and add a float valve to the Tunze, but it would definitely involve more work.
Without some DIY tinkering you're limited to the PMUP pump (not a big deal, IMO) I like the PMUP pump better than the Tunze pump. Tunze does have an optional adaptor that lets you use any 120V pump you want, but it's pretty pricey, considering it's little more than a 12V relay.
In general, optical sensors are more reliable than float sensors, although either can fail, especially if they aren't kept clean. The backup sensor for the Tunze is a float sensor, but it's positioned above the waterline and almost always kept dry, so the likelihood of it failing when needed is extremely low.
The 2nd optical sensor in the ATK is positioned too close to the first IMO (or at least for my use). Given that my water change routine regularly raises the water level above the 2nd sensor and triggers an alarm it will get rather annoying for me. I may try to mount it separately higher in the sump to avoid the issue.
Forcing you to disconnect the power to reset the alarms in the stand alone configuration is rather annoying, too. Particularly for the high sump level, low reservoir alarms, there's no reason the system can't automatically reset itself once the conditions are cleared.
Another potential problem spot for me is the IQ Fill functionality. It's meant as a safety backup, but it's a bit too conservative, IMO. Most of the time when my ATO runs it's on for about 10-15 seconds. When the Beananimal overflow starts up, the level in the return section of the sump transiently drops while the system equilibrates. I haven't checked it yet, but I can easily see this causing the ATK to timeout and alarm. The Tunze has a straight timer that you can manually adjust; a system I like better for a standalone setup.
Overall, it's kind of a wash in terms of functionality (as a stand alone unit) between the ATK and the Tunze. There are a few advantages, but some disadvantages too. I'll keep using the ATK for now, but for me, the annoyances I list above will likely outweigh the advantages and I'll probably switch back tot he Tunze until I get an Apex.
A couple useful links:
The ATK home page with the product announcement Video
ATK Getting started/setup/FAQ page
As background, I have no controller but am planning on getting one within the next several months and have basically decided on an Apex. I currently have a Tunze Osmolator that has been working perfect (except for one time when I failed to keep the optical sensor clean ;Facepalm)
Note - I typically advise against getting new products immediately after they come on the market in case there are unforeseen bugs. In my system, my sump is easily has the capacity to handle the entire 10 gallon capacity of my ATO reservoir, and the drop in system salinity would not be disastrous, even if the ATK were to dump the entire contents into my system. Since I was planning on getting a FMM when I purchased an Apex I decided to go ahead and take the plunge.
Setup/Configuration
Setup was very easy and is about as plug-and-play as you can get - mount the bracket in your sump, plug the two sensor cables into the FMM box. Connect the tubing to the pump and the float valve. Plug the pump into the FMM box, and plug in the power supply. I haven't mounted the box yet, but the entire process took less than 10 minutes and a pretty blue light was glowing, telling me my system was ready to go. The magnetic holder held well and has a rubberized backing to prevent slipping. The magnet doesn't feel as the Tunze's, but it's working fine on my 40b sump.
The system is designed to be used out of the box in stand alone mode, but can also be connected to an Apex controller. The controller connection gives more options for alerts, configuration and disables the IQ Fill functionality.
'IQ fill' - from the description and comments from @Terence, The FMM takes a running average of the last 5 top off run times. If the system runs for more than twice this average it says something's wrong and triggers an alarm.
FMM inputs - #'s 1 & 2 are used by the optical sensors. 3 & 4 can be used for a leak detection probe and a ATO reservoir level sensor respectively. If these are connected then the unit will shut off the pump when a leak is detected or the water level drops below the sensor.
Alarms - there are 4 ways to trigger an alarm (that I know of,) all of which shut off the pump and make the unit beep. (note that the number of beeps corresponds to the port to which the corresponding sensor is connected - a nice touch)
- If the unit has been running too long and IQ Fill is activated the unit emits a series of single beeps
- If the water level rises above the upper sensor on the bracket for more than 10 minutes it will emit a series of 2 beeps.
- If the leak detector senses water it emits a series of 3 beeps
- If the reservoir level falls below the sensor it emits a series of 4 beeps.
Performance/use
In the few days I've used it, it seems to do a good job of maintaining my sump level. Just eyeballing the volume change in the return chamber it appears that the Neptune ATK has a slightly larger volume swing than the Tunze osmolator did, but it's not a huge difference and definitely not enough to matter. I'd estimate the water level change to be around 5mm for the ATK vs 3 mm for the Tunze, or approx 600ml vs 400ml. Just to check, I pulled up on the float valve as it was filling and it does indeed stop the flow of water as one would expect.
The PMUP pump is definitely quieter than the Tunze pump. It also is easier to keep upright and will prime itself without me reaching into the sump to shake the bubbles out like I had to do with the Tunze pump. Flow wise it's about the same. I think the flow of the PMUP is likely better but it gets restricted by the float valve. I also haven't trimmed the tubing yet.
Yesterday I did a 15 gallon water change for which I close the valve on the return pump & turn it off, turn off the skimmer and let the contents of the C2C overflow siphon down to the sump, causing the sump level to rise a couple of inches. After 10 minutes, the FMM began to beep, as expected. Once the water change was complete, I waited to see if the beeping would stop. Even after waiting a few hours and letting the sump level drop it still didn't stop beeping. A quick check on the web site confirmed that once an alarm is triggered you have to unplug the device to reset it.
Some people have asked about using other pumps. If you have an Apex you could of course use one of the switched ports. If you're using as a standalone system and want something besides the PMUP pump, you either need to find another 24V pump (kind of an unusual voltage for a pump,) use a step-down transformer, or rig a relay to control a 120V pump.
Impressions:
Compared to the Tunze osmolator there are some definite advantages & disadvantages.
The ability to easily add a leak detection sensor and ATO reservoir sensor is very nice, and would be nice to have on the Tunze, especially since priming the Tunze pump is a bit annoying. With a bit of tinkering, I think you could do the same and add a float valve to the Tunze, but it would definitely involve more work.
Without some DIY tinkering you're limited to the PMUP pump (not a big deal, IMO) I like the PMUP pump better than the Tunze pump. Tunze does have an optional adaptor that lets you use any 120V pump you want, but it's pretty pricey, considering it's little more than a 12V relay.
In general, optical sensors are more reliable than float sensors, although either can fail, especially if they aren't kept clean. The backup sensor for the Tunze is a float sensor, but it's positioned above the waterline and almost always kept dry, so the likelihood of it failing when needed is extremely low.
The 2nd optical sensor in the ATK is positioned too close to the first IMO (or at least for my use). Given that my water change routine regularly raises the water level above the 2nd sensor and triggers an alarm it will get rather annoying for me. I may try to mount it separately higher in the sump to avoid the issue.
Forcing you to disconnect the power to reset the alarms in the stand alone configuration is rather annoying, too. Particularly for the high sump level, low reservoir alarms, there's no reason the system can't automatically reset itself once the conditions are cleared.
Another potential problem spot for me is the IQ Fill functionality. It's meant as a safety backup, but it's a bit too conservative, IMO. Most of the time when my ATO runs it's on for about 10-15 seconds. When the Beananimal overflow starts up, the level in the return section of the sump transiently drops while the system equilibrates. I haven't checked it yet, but I can easily see this causing the ATK to timeout and alarm. The Tunze has a straight timer that you can manually adjust; a system I like better for a standalone setup.
Overall, it's kind of a wash in terms of functionality (as a stand alone unit) between the ATK and the Tunze. There are a few advantages, but some disadvantages too. I'll keep using the ATK for now, but for me, the annoyances I list above will likely outweigh the advantages and I'll probably switch back tot he Tunze until I get an Apex.
A couple useful links:
The ATK home page with the product announcement Video
ATK Getting started/setup/FAQ page
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