New angels - cupramine?

[impur]

I picked up a beautiful pair of angels yesterday, one is a Potters the other a Cherub. They healthy and fat and acclimated easily. I currently have them in a 10gal tank and plan to treat them before introducing them to my tank.

My plan is watch them in the hospital tank for the 1st week, then to use Seachem cupramine for the recommended 14 days, and finally allow 1 week of rest before going into my display.

The hospital tank has several PVC fittings in there for hiding, a 50w heater and small 100gph powerhead. The fish are still relatively small, the Potters being ~4" and the Cherub 1-2". How concerned about ammonia/nitrate levels should I be during the treatment? I will do a WC after the 1st week, but the following 2 weeks will go without a WC as I will be dosing the cupramine and maintaining its level.

I keep reading conflicting info on angels and cupramine. Some say they are very sensitive to it, others say no problems. I'm assuming that they will be fine as long as I am testing daily the amount of copper in the tank and keep levels in the correct range, and due to the fact that cupramine is less harsh than straight copper. But its always nice to get a little backup info from those with experience.

 

[SkullV]

I picked up a beautiful pair of angels yesterday, one is a Potters the other a Cherub. They healthy and fat and acclimated easily. I currently have them in a 10gal tank and plan to treat them before introducing them to my tank.

My plan is watch them in the hospital tank for the 1st week, then to use Seachem cupramine for the recommended 14 days, and finally allow 1 week of rest before going into my display.

The hospital tank has several PVC fittings in there for hiding, a 50w heater and small 100gph powerhead. The fish are still relatively small, the Potters being ~4" and the Cherub 1-2". How concerned about ammonia/nitrate levels should I be during the treatment? I will do a WC after the 1st week, but the following 2 weeks will go without a WC as I will be dosing the cupramine and maintaining its level.

I keep reading conflicting info on angels and cupramine. Some say they are very sensitive to it, others say no problems. I'm assuming that they will be fine as long as I am testing daily the amount of copper in the tank and keep levels in the correct range, and due to the fact that cupramine is less harsh than straight copper. But its always nice to get a little backup info from those with experience.

I had a coral beauty in Cupramine for 14 days at .5 (recommended strength). It ate nori/rods food through the entire treatment and is still doing fine.

 

[LargeAngels]

How concerned about ammonia/nitrate levels should I be during the treatment?

Very. That is the MOST important of all. Keep ammonia levels down. You really need to have an established bio filter to keep the ammonia level down. If treating with Cupramine most ammonia test kits give a false positive so I always use Seachems ammonia badge.

Potters can be difficult and in a "sterile" QT it may even be harder. Many potters need to graze on algae as they may not take prepared food. Best way to QT a potters is in a tank that has a good growth of algae in it.

I've treated many dwarfs with Cupramine, including potters, and haven't seen any issues.

 

[Toddrtrex]

Overall I am not a fan of treating with anything unless I see a reason to do so. For me, the only exception would be Prazipro -- flukes and dwarf angels seem to go hand and hand.

 

[geaux xman]

many like to do 21 days at 0.5 on the cupramine. some have said that if you call Seachem, they will also suggest 21 days despite what is written on the directions.

definitely do a 1-2 treatment of prazipro.

 

[SkullV]

many like to do 21 days at 0.5 on the cupramine. some have said that if you call Seachem, they will also suggest 21 days despite what is written on the directions.

definitely do a 1-2 treatment of prazipro.

Yep, I always do 21 days. The only reason the Coral Beauty was taken out after 14 days was because someone wanted her who already had crypt in their tank. No point in treating the fish if it is going into that environment anyway.

 

[impur]

Thanks for all the replies!!

I just got back from my lunch and checking on the little guys, i can see already just how much waste is sitting on the bottom of the tank, and only from overnight!! I am going to put an Aquaclear HOB filter on it instead of the powerhead in hopes of stirring that stuff up and filtering it out. Then i can clean the sponge daily to help with rotting waste/food. I know this won't eliminate the problem, but i think it will help.

I've got nori and plenty of variety of food, and they both ate a few flakes of food when i checked on them.

I know using a sterile QT isn't the best way, but its what i've got. It went ok when i did my clowns and wrasse, so i'm going to have to cross my fingers and hope it goes well again.

I have read about the 21 day treatment, but have decided against that length and will go with the directions on the bottle and do 14. I am hoping given the fact that they will go into a known disease free tank coupled with the fact of knowing where they came from and how long they were there I can do the 14 days and limit any additional stress to the fish.

I will have to look into using prazipro, can it be used in conjunction with cupramine? I haven't used that medication yet....

Thanks again for the replies! Much appreciated!

 

[montego]

Thanks for all the replies!!

I will have to look into using prazipro, can it be used in conjunction with cupramine? I haven't used that medication yet....

I have asked the same question, and ppl have suggested to complete the cupramine treatment first then start prazipro. Mixing the two was not good.

 

[impur]

Makes sense, less stress on the fish, less things to monitor/go wrong. Thanks!

 

[jcw]

I have 3 HOB filters rated for 50-70 gallon each on my 29gal QT.

2/3 I run without filter pads just for aeration.

The third, I run with the carbon filter but sometimes I worry what that cheap carbon does to certain saltwater fish, dwarf angels esp.

I treated both my angels with prazipro. One got cloud eye and fin rot and I treated that one with Furan2. And they did well until I electrocuted one of them with a bad powerhead, vacuuming the tank.

In general, I think prazipro probably safer than cupramine. It does turn the water yellow (on purpose I think).

I change 10% nearly twice a week to keep the waste down without biological filters. And sometimes that's not enough if you are QT more than one fish.

Thanks for all the replies!!

I just got back from my lunch and checking on the little guys, i can see already just how much waste is sitting on the bottom of the tank, and only from overnight!! I am going to put an Aquaclear HOB filter on it instead of the powerhead in hopes of stirring that stuff up and filtering it out. Then i can clean the sponge daily to help with rotting waste/food. I know this won't eliminate the problem, but i think it will help.

I've got nori and plenty of variety of food, and they both ate a few flakes of food when i checked on them.

I know using a sterile QT isn't the best way, but its what i've got. It went ok when i did my clowns and wrasse, so i'm going to have to cross my fingers and hope it goes well again.

I have read about the 21 day treatment, but have decided against that length and will go with the directions on the bottle and do 14. I am hoping given the fact that they will go into a known disease free tank coupled with the fact of knowing where they came from and how long they were there I can do the 14 days and limit any additional stress to the fish.

I will have to look into using prazipro, can it be used in conjunction with cupramine? I haven't used that medication yet....

Thanks again for the replies! Much appreciated!

 

[dkanka]

I have heard don't mix Prazipro and Cupramine, but does anyone know exactly what happens that would cause the two to be a bad combination???

 

[tcmfish]

You can mix them.

 

[roktsintst]

I have mixed them many times with many types of fish including tangs, angels, anthias, wrasses and have been just fine. Just watch water quality closely and pay very close attention to fish behavior!

 

[impur]

Hmmm thats good to know, would be able to lessen time in the hospital tank. Thanks for the info!

I snapped a couple pics of the lil guys

 

[MrTuskfish]

I know Flame Angels are very sensitive to copper. I thought this was true of the entire genus; but have never found anything that says so. I'm a big fan of prophylactic treatment with both Cupramine and Prazi-Pro. I've treated several Dwarf Angels (not Flames) with copper at .5 with no problem. BTW, IMO & IME, only a SeaChem copper test kit really gives an accurate reading of Cupramine---makes sense, they make both.

 

[impur]

Yah i had an API copper test kit i used last time i treated fish, but i cannot find it. It was able to read the levels of cupramine when i dosed before. So I was going to pickup the SeaChem test or RedSea, as well as some ammonia badges this week.

 

[impur]

I got home last night and the ammonia badge was reading .02ppm, so i tested with my API kit and it showed ~.25ppm, which is a significant difference. At any rate the ammonia is getting too high too fast, only 3 or 4 days, so I did a small WC on the HT and tonight i'll move the fish into a 20L. That will give me double the water volume and hopefully slow down the rate that the ammonia will rise, giving me some time to treat them. I'll also run a test on 1gal of water dosed with the cupramine to make sure the API test kit can still read the levels.

Can I use ammonia absorbing media while dosing with cupramine and prazipro?

 

[LargeAngels]

I would remove the Cupramine and Prazipro and get your ammonia under control ASAP. Once you have gotten the ammonia under control with biological filtration then you can use the meds. Getting the ammonia under control is 10x more important than treatment right now.

 

[impur]

I don't have any meds in there, the first week I am observing the fish and making sure ammonia won't be a problem thru the 2 week treatment. The ammonia is under control after doing the water change.

Can I use ammonia absorbing media while dosing with cupramine and prazipro?

Also would a small, say 2 or 3lbs rock from my display be of any help at all?

 

[steelerfan1]

I don't have any meds in there, the first week I am observing the fish and making sure ammonia won't be a problem thru the 2 week treatment. The ammonia is under control after doing the water change.

Can I use ammonia absorbing media while dosing with cupramine and prazipro?

Also would a small, say 2 or 3lbs rock from my display be of any help at all?

i have read you are NOT supposed to use any amquel or the like while using cuprimine.