new clowns!!! 2 b/w ocellaris and 2 hybrids

[asch803]

i just received 2 b/w ocellaris and 2 hybrid sebae/polymnus clowns (called white tips) from Premium Aquatics this morning...I acclimated them as "pairs" and added them to the tank as "pairs" even though they are are all juvies, i'd like them to pair off right away...the tank is a 120 gal semi-reef (a few leathers and shrooms) and then 3 anemones (two rbta and 1 magnifica)...initially they swam in pairs for a few minutes, then 3 and 1 and then all 4 together...went out for a while and just got home and the 2 b/w ocellaris are in the magnifica looking like they will never leave and the 2 white tips are swimming as a pair a few inches above the magnifica...hopefully they will discover 1 or both of the rbta's...the 3 anemones are situated far away from each other and i'll hopefully be able to avoid the chemical warfare i've read about, so far so good...i was offered a huge and beautiful red and neon green magnifica the other day and couldn't pass it up...guess the clowns certainly like it! i love all of the clowns! The only other fish in there is a 5 or 6 inch Marine Betta that's been in there for about 4 or 5 yrs and hides most of the time. I'm thinking about adding a pr of harlequin shrimp and maybe a dottyback of some sort, but that's about it...suggestions to ensure and/or help with my success of keeping 2 pairs of clowns is very much welcomed! thanks! I'll try to take some pics tonight and post them (if i can figure out how)...

Andy

 

[Moonstream]

ummm...
not to crush you or anything, but if you just added them, and all are juvies, then thats not quite success. success is keeping the clowns together for their whole life span (20+ yrs) without losing them to stress related disease, fighting, ect. the real issues will be when the grow up, but I wish you luck! they sound so nice! keep us updated! really hope this works!

 

[asch803]

oh don't worry, i'm not claiming success...for me though, success will be measured in months and a year at a time since I've had so many disasters in this hobby (some my fault and some not)...10 or 20 years would be incredible but right now i'm aiming for a year or two, then i'll take it from there...the white tips seem really jealous that the ocellaris already claimed the magnifica and I want them to notice there are 2 rbta's that will gladly welcome them

Andy

 

[jeeperrs]

Don't worry, that is like saying you only have success raising a kid if he/she lives to be 70+ years old lol. A lot of people have success even if they don't raise their kids to the average life span. This is true with fish too, a lot die before the average ;-)

 

[Slakker]

We don't consider it success if you lock four children in one bedroom, and give the two strongest the tools and motivation they need to kill the others off.

 

[jeeperrs]

Asch, are you giving your little clowns some guns and knives to see who wins? Ha-ha. Give it some time and I am sure the other two will find the other nems. I started off with one clown and it took about 6 weeks before it decided to host. I have actually talked to several people about having two types of clowns in a 120. All of them think that if you set it up like yours with hosting areas on both sides of the tank, they should be fine. Post some pics when you have some time.

 

[Slakker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10331792#post10331792 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jeeperrs
Asch, are you giving your little clowns some guns and knives to see who wins? Ha-ha. Give it some time and I am sure the other two will find the other nems. I started off with one clown and it took about 6 weeks before it decided to host. I have actually talked to several people about having two types of clowns in a 120. All of them think that if you set it up like yours with hosting areas on both sides of the tank, they should be fine. Post some pics when you have some time.

Weapons are in no way required to kill a living thing. The dominant clowns could attack the others and harass them until they die, or they could simply prevent the other two from getting enough food to survive.

This will end badly.

I don't know WHO you're talking to about this, but I've never seen anyone suggest more than one pair of clowns in any tank less than 200 gallons, especially with any sort of Polymnus involved.

 

[MarinaP]

I agree w/Tyler. This will end badly.

And yes, polymnus suck.

 

[kkyyllee]

so what happens when they want to kick the others from that nem? or if they dont host?

 

[asch803]

i'm going to set up one of those"all in one" nano tanks apporx 35 gallons in the next month or so, so if needed I can move one of the pairs and a nem into there. there isn't any aggression at all and the the sebae/polymnus are even going into the magnifica a little, but just not as deep as the ocellaris...i'm guessing/hoping in the next few days they will move 12 inches or so to the left and discover a nice big friendly rose bubble they can call their home. I didn't expect this post to generate so much hostility...I'm aware that there are no guarantees of this working but i have done research and many people have had success with this (yes, for more than a few months). For the naysayers, i hope you're wrong on this and I also hope you can understand that different situations yield different results, so don't be so sure it won't work. I took some really nice pics of the 2 b/w in the nem and the 2 hybrids hovering above it, BUT i cannot resize properly to post on here, sorry...

 

[MarinaP]

There is no hostiility.We are sharing our experience, that's all.

And you will fail.

 

[Anemone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10332983#post10332983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MarinaP

And yes, polymnus suck.

I'm not sure there is a whole lot of hostility here, just the internet. It's hard to judge the "tone" of the written word. Not having any polymnus experience myself, but knowing of marina's experience, what I think she's trying to get across here is that polymnus clowns don't play well with others, and when those clowns mature, they are going to be mean SOBs, and the ocellaris will be in trouble. It might not be for six months, eight months, or 18 months, but trouble will be coming.

Sorry.

Kevin

 

[jpgwold]

Well I wish you luck and hope both pairs do great together. Keep us posted.

 

[triggerfish1976]

I recently had a pair of large black Polymnus, a pair of Percula and 4 Latz Juveniles in my 600 gallon tank with 4 different anemones scattered throughout. I setup my rockwork in way to try and create natural barriers so each group of clowns would not see each other when they were hosting their anemones. The problem is, Polymnus are not the type of clown that stays put an the anemone all day long and the pair would swim all over the tank and pick at all of the other clowns throughout the day. Once they started doing damage to the Latz they had to go so I removed them and gave them to another fellow hobbyist.
The percs. and Latz got along fine for a few weeks after the Saddleback's were removed but then one of the percs. developed into a female and she proceeded to attack the Latz and would go from one Anemone to the other driving them out. Since the Latz are my pride and joy I ended up getting rid of the Percs as well. I am getting along fine with the 4 Latz right now but if they decide to form 2 seperate pairs instead of a small harem then I might have more problems.

 

[Slakker]

More likely they'll form one pair, and that pair will proceed to kill off the other two clowns.

Might be a good idea to set up another tank, or have a QT available at they very least, just in case your Latz start getting violent with each other. That way you'd be able to have the pair in your 600 and a pair in another tank.

 

[jeeperrs]

Asch, I say if you want to try it, try it. I am glad to see that you have a back up tank if things go bad later. Being a researcher I think it is good to try things out. With that said, I would not want to see it go to the point of death for your fish. At our university we have lots of animal research and none of it is to be cruel. In that research a lot of animals die or they have to be put down. I don't think your intentions are malicious or to be cruel but it is to learn something. That is why I support you in attempting it. People need to remember you will have an extra tank if things start to sour and you are not attempting this in a 12 gallon cube. In Orlando and San Diego they do a lot of research that would put RC up in arms. Keep us posted on how they do together. Oh, don't worry about it if people start cursing you out. Some people never reach formal thought ;-)

 

[Slakker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10333558#post10333558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jeeperrs
... At our university we have lots of animal research ... lot of animals die or they have to be put down ... People need to remember you will have an extra tank if things start to sour and you are not attempting this in a 12 gallon cube ...

Certainly inspires confidence in you and your university...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10333299#post10333299 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
I recently had a pair of large black Polymnus, a pair of Percula and 4 Latz Juveniles in my 600 gallon tank ... Polymnus are not the type of clown that stays put an the anemone all day long ... would swim all over the tank and pick at all of the other clowns ...

It has absolutely been shown that it does not work, even in tanks with 500% more space to establish territory. There's no reason to risk the health of any animal "researching" something that has already been shown to be ineffective and dangerous. That's simply irresponsible. It may as well be a 12 gallon cube...the outcome will be negative in either case.

 

[Anemone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10333558#post10333558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jeeperrs
Some people never reach formal thought ;-)

I think you need to be fair. The long-term members of this board have seen literally thousands of hobbyists post here looking for validation to try something that most say shouldn't be tried.

The "research is the only way the hobby advances" argument is often thrown out to support these types of exercises.

Unfortunately, the point that is rarely considered is that few (if any) of the hobbyists attempting these "experiments" have the experience or training to make these experiments mean anything at all. These "experiments" are just the excuse to do what the hobbyist wanted to do in the first place and generally end badly.

I'm not saying that is the case here, but the use of the "research" argument needs to be rebutted.

Kevin

 

[jeeperrs]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10332830#post10332830 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
I don't know WHO you're talking to about this, but I've never seen anyone suggest more than one pair of clowns in any tank less than 200 gallons, especially with any sort of Polymnus involved.

So in this comment you say it could be possible in a 200+ tank and now you say it is not possible period. Again, I just ask for consistency in advice No one is saying that the risk of the clowns becoming aggressive is not there. Also, no one said they are going to make them fight it out until the other dies. They have a back-up plan and will use it if they need. Goodness, is this RC or PETA?

 

[jeeperrs]

I agree with you Anemone I just get tired of people being rude to others on here. The main people that are rude really don't have any experience. I think Triggerfish made a very good comment and it was a chance for someone to learn. Most people who take time to come on RC are not trying to hurt their animals and we tend to forget that when we reply back. I just think saying NO or YES is a little crazy most of the time because every animal acts a little different.