New custom DSA starphire tank ~ 450g

ekovalsky

Premium Member
This will be replacing my current 233g A.G.E. tank which has served me very well since 2007. It will be going in the front of a home theater. Room will be set up for high end 2-channel audio listening with reef visible, or 7-ch home theater with drop down screen concealing the tank. All equipment will be going in the stand below the display tank; there is access to back of the tank via an exterior bathroom that I gutted into a fish room :)

Tank is being built by Deep Sea Aquatics (I'm following Tom Hudson who used to be at A.G.E.) and will be mostly similar in construction to my current tank he made, just deeper and a bit taller with PVC bottom and starphire glass front. Also my current tank has an acrylic perimeter brace which I think is no longer offered, although mine has not had issues.

I have a maximum ~ 48" usable depth for adequate clearance in the fish room behind the tank, and am opting for an internal overflow to keep things as neat as possible and minimize external plumbing; if I went with an external overflow, I would have had to drop the tank depth to 42" - so I'm not really losing any space in the display itself.

All the equipment will be going underneath the tank, in the stand. I have been trying to get a quote for a custom ECO Dreambox sump system but that doesn't seem to be happening. Fortunately I can probably get something similar, with English fittings, made locally. I was willing to spend big bucks on a BK Super Marine 250 and RD3 pumps but based on some of the recent customer service issues, I'm thinking I'm better offer with cheaper Chinese or American made stuff that I can easily swap in the event of a failure.

Tank will be drilled for closed loop with four 1" returns and two 1-1/2" drains, using a Reeflo Dart pump, which will insure flow around the aquascape elements. The rear coast-to-coast style overflow will have three 1-1/2" drains used in the "Bean Animal" configuration with left side emergency draining leading to the pump compartment of the sump, high flow siphon drain leading to the filtration/skimmer compartment of the sump, and low flow standpipe feeding a refugium for pods, as I plan on keeping mandarins and leopard wrasses. I will only turn over the display tank volume 3-4x per hour as I want this to be a quiet setup. I'm not sure yet if I will use a traditional internal skimmer or do a hybrid setup with a more efficient recirculating pump operating inside the sump (which obviously would have to utilize a submersible pump), gravity fed via the siphon. The latter scenario would preclude use of pre-sump mechanical filtration i.e . socks but I have mixed feelings about them anyway, as they will be a nuisance in terms of maintenance. I've operating my current setup without any such mechanical filtration without any issues. I am trying to minimize all external plumbing, hence not interested in a conventional external skimmer arrangement, also they tend to be too tall and I only will have about 32" clearance under the tank. There will be two 1" return lines plumbed through the overflow. Additional circulation in the display tank will be delivered by a pair of MP60s.

I am opting for LED lighting this time around in part because I live in Arizona, and my electric bills are already quite high in the summer. At this point I am considering primarily Radion G3 Pro versus GHL Mitra 6200. The Orphek Atlantik V2.1 is tempting too with its larger coverage but a little hesitant to go there.

Here is the tank diagram that is about to be approved. If anyone sees anything amiss please let me know ASAP!

I will be working on the final sump design this weekend which will be designed and built similar to the Royal-Exclusiv ECO Dreambox with first compartment accommodating filter socks (may or may not be used), second filtration compartment protein skimmer and internally plumbed biopellet and carbon media reactors, and final pump compartment. Refugium will be separate from the sump.

My installer seems keen on UV but if I do anything along those lines, I will probably add an ozone reactor. I learned my lesson first time, and will be using quarantine tanks for all new fish and coral additions!
 

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Very cool concept. How will you be handling the tank lighting in the event you're in movie 7 channel mode? Are you concerned about tank light penetrating through the screen from behind? Will you simply turn them off (manually or auto)? I assume you're not using an acoustically transparent screen? Certainly following along on this one!
 
Nice design concept. What protein skimmer you plan on using?


Good question! Originally I had planned a BK 250 Super Marin along with the ECO Dreambox, but am looking at alternatives now, including Alpha Vertex 250/300, ATB 10.5 Delux, Tunze 9440, as well as some less costly Asian ones i.e. Skimz SL253 or Reef Octopus Elite 220INT or Regal 300EXT (used in-sump). The 220INT looks really nice although I suspect borderline for a 450g tank that eventually will be moderately stocked. Any other suggestions for a conventional internal skimmer or an external one that can be operated in-sump, via the Bean Animal siphon drain ?


Very cool concept. How will you be handling the tank lighting in the event you're in movie 7 channel mode? Are you concerned about tank light penetrating through the screen from behind? Will you simply turn them off (manually or auto)? I assume you're not using an acoustically transparent screen? Certainly following along on this one!

Screen is not acoustically transparent but blocks light effectively. If the tank lights are still on when we watch movie, I will dim them. I am also thinking about having the millwork company make pocket doors or a removable panel that could cover the tank.

Agreed. I'm interested to see how it works. Best of luck.

Thank you, I'll need it ;)
 
ekovalsky

I just went through the skimmer decision. I looked at all the skimmers you listed and I can say after much research that the Elite 220int is to small. Its very nicely built skimmer and way better quality than the Other Reef Octo's.

I did just sell my alpha 300 as I thought it was way to big for my 300 but might be the right size for your tank, so that could be an option. Royal Exclusive does not make the the Alpha's anymore so I'm not sure of their quality.


I narrowed my choice down to ATB and Bubble King. The Bubble King won out. I got the Super Marin 200. I do think the the 250 is a good match for your tank and from what I have read about Bubble King is not to get bigger than you need

My BK is very consistent and skims well so far. Very happy I splurged and got the BK. Photos of it are in my build thread.
 
ekovalsky

I just went through the skimmer decision. I looked at all the skimmers you listed and I can say after much research that the Elite 220int is to small. Its very nicely built skimmer and way better quality than the Other Reef Octo's.

I did just sell my alpha 300 as I thought it was way to big for my 300 but might be the right size for your tank, so that could be an option. Royal Exclusive does not make the the Alpha's anymore so I'm not sure of their quality.


I narrowed my choice down to ATB and Bubble King. The Bubble King won out. I got the Super Marin 200. I do think the the 250 is a good match for your tank and from what I have read about Bubble King is not to get bigger than you need

My BK is very consistent and skims well so far. Very happy I splurged and got the BK. Photos of it are in my build thread.


Kris, what did you think of the skimz ?

Agree with your assessment of the 220INT. If they made a larger model it would be an easy choice.

The Tunze skimmers tend to be overlooked and are quite effective too.

I'm a little concerned about customer service with the BK products. I haven't been able to get a quote back from Germany and there are some unhappy campers in the BK skimmer thread. Being a current deltec owner, that concerns me.
 
I didn't look at skimz.

I have read about the BK support issues and since they opened a warehouse in FL, I would hope that they get the issues resolved. Its a great skimmer and they have been around for a while so I would hope they get it straightened out.

I ordered mine through my LFS try Saltycritter.com so maybe go that route or some other online resource
 
Great start but would like to make a couple of suggestions....

Skimmer...I am using the RO Regal 300ext and absolutely love it. It truly has been a set and forget skimmer. As far as the size skimmer you might want to ask some of the manufactures what size would be best. I was told by the guys at coralvue that your skimmer size should be based on your DT volume and not your entire system. If this is the case then you might want to consider a smaller skimmer depending on how you will stock the tank. My previous skimmer was an ATB 10.5 deluxe and while it did a great job, it cost a lot more than my Regal and I love having the ext skimmer now. Never have to worry about forgetting to turn the skimmer pump off when the main pump goes off.

Closed loop....My 96x36x24 has two separate closed loop pumps so I have 8 x 1" returns and 2 x 2" drains. I would suggest increasing the drains to 2" because you will get significant suction and dont want to lose any unsuspecting fish that are swimming by to get pulled in. I would also suggest moving 2 of your returns to the front of the tank and have them point up towards the overflow. You want them to push anything floating in the water column that you want filtered out towards the overflow. Finally, not sure if you have thought about bulkheads yet but I would use Sch80 bulkheads on the closed loop. Last thing you want is a bulkhead to crack down there. My tank builder insisted on me getting them for my tank and included them in the price of my tank.


Looking forward to seeing this all come together since the build part is the most fun!!!
 
The Regal 300 is definitely a possibility, glad to hear yours is working well. I would place this in the sump, which will be large and custom built, and fed via siphon drain of a bean animal configuration. I'd have the low flow standpipe to drain upstream into the filter socks.

I agree with sizing the skimmer for DT volume since that is the source of the bio load. I do plan on using bio pellets and/or vodka ie carbon source so want to make sure I have enough skimmer capacity. BK 250 SM, RO Regal 300, vertex 300, atb 10.5, skimz sl253 should all do the job. The RO 220INT seems undersized, the 'half the rated capacity' is probably appropriate for that model.

All the holes are already sized for sch80 bulkheads. I'm only going to have one CL pump and I think the dual gravity fed 1-1/2" drains will be okay, as they will T into a single 2" pipe to the pump. But it wouldn't hurt to upsize to 2". Of course these drains will have a screen to keep livestock out, and those will be covered by a wider shield pipe or drilled rock structure. I wanted the outlets hidden in the aqua scape which is why they are so far back, will use branched locline fittings to direct flow forward/up. I may see if the front pair can be moved forward a bit though, they are pretty far back! Most flow in the DT will be from propeller pumps.


Great start but would like to make a couple of suggestions....

Skimmer...I am using the RO Regal 300ext and absolutely love it. It truly has been a set and forget skimmer. As far as the size skimmer you might want to ask some of the manufactures what size would be best. I was told by the guys at coralvue that your skimmer size should be based on your DT volume and not your entire system. If this is the case then you might want to consider a smaller skimmer depending on how you will stock the tank. My previous skimmer was an ATB 10.5 deluxe and while it did a great job, it cost a lot more than my Regal and I love having the ext skimmer now. Never have to worry about forgetting to turn the skimmer pump off when the main pump goes off.

Closed loop....My 96x36x24 has two separate closed loop pumps so I have 8 x 1" returns and 2 x 2" drains. I would suggest increasing the drains to 2" because you will get significant suction and dont want to lose any unsuspecting fish that are swimming by to get pulled in. I would also suggest moving 2 of your returns to the front of the tank and have them point up towards the overflow. You want them to push anything floating in the water column that you want filtered out towards the overflow. Finally, not sure if you have thought about bulkheads yet but I would use Sch80 bulkheads on the closed loop. Last thing you want is a bulkhead to crack down there. My tank builder insisted on me getting them for my tank and included them in the price of my tank.


Looking forward to seeing this all come together since the build part is the most fun!!!
 
Looks like it is going to be a killer build. What are you going to do with your old tank?

I'm going to be selling it, taekim, along with basically all my existing equipment including a Deltec AP1003 and MH/VHO light rack.

A few other updates -

I wasn't even able to get a quote for a custom ECO Dreambox so am going to try and have something similar built locally. I also talked myself out of the costly European skimmers for concerns about getting replacement pumps/parts in the future - been burned on this once already!

So I'm going to pull the trigger on a Reef Octopus Regal 300EXT which should do the trick, with a 12" body. It is too tall to fit under the stand with the Reef Octopus neck cleaner, but the Vertex Vectra is shorter and I'll use one of those with its 30cm plate. Despite being an external model, the 300EXT will be installed in-sump in order to eliminate possibility of catastrophic leaks, while still allowing independent control of water and air flow and avoid major fluctuations with sump water levels. I feel this will allow more stable and efficient operation than a traditional internal skimmer. Skimmer flow will come via the siphon sandpipe of a 'bean animal' overflow setup, using a ball or gate valve to fine tune the GPH figuring about 2-3x total system volume per hour. I did this with my external Deltec skimmer back in 2007 and it has worked very well, while eliminating the need for a dedicated feed pump or parasitizing the return pump. I will have the (low flow) open channel standpipe, which will handle smaller surface debris, draining into a filter sock compartment, and the emergency drain will go straight to the pump compartment.

I've used Reeflo Dart return and closed loop pumps on my current tank and they have been great - quiet operation, low heat transfer, and reliable - except for one time the seal of the return pump went bad resulting in a major leak. Also the vibration has caused intermittent, minimal leaks around the adjacent plumbing of the sump bulkhead and closed loop. Because of this I'm leaning towards a submersible return pump such as the 80w RD3 Speedy with 1-10v control, Vertex V6, or RODC-5500S. I've also contacted Skimz about their Zenotec pumps which I think are based on the Abyzz/Zenotec, but no reply as of yet. I'll likely double up the pumps for redundancy, with one plumbed through a chiller and the other T-d off to feed internal sump plumbing/maniford for three media reactors (one for Zeovit/biopellets, one for activated carbon, one for GFO; latter would only be used intermittently, when needed.

While a Reeflo Snapper/Dart is the obvious choice for a closed loop pump, I'm tempted to use another submersible like listed above to eliminate the chance of a seal leak. That said, I think the Gold pumps may have improved seals compared to the old A.O. Smith motor ones I have been using.

I'll be working on the sump design this week and post diagrams. Since I will have a lot of space under 6' x 4' tank, I will make it fairly large!
 
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Preliminary sump design below, drawn as 60"L x 24"W x 20"T ~ 125G. Once dimensions are finalized I will diagram the individual baffles. I will be borrowing the design heavily from the R-E dreamboxes. No luck in even getting a quote for one of those so going to pay big bucks for a local guy to craft a high end sump...

This is being built for a 'Bean Animal' overflow configuration with:

  • high flow / siphon standpipe > gravity feed from overflow subsurface to external skimmer within equipment compartment
  • low flow / air channel standpipe > overflow surface to refugium compartment
  • zero flow / emergency standpipe > return compartment

The water entering the refugium will be coming directly from the overflow surface so I think should have enough nutrients to support some chaeto growth. It would be a good place for a DSB too, but hoping to not need one with biopellets. Hopefully live rock rubble and some macro algae in here will help support the population of small crustaceans in the display tank, as I do plan on having a leopard wrasse and mandarin. Outflow from the refugium will not go through the skimmer with my design; rather it will go directly to the return compartment.

Skimmer diagrammed is the Reef Octopus Diablo 300EXT, I could not find the schematic for the Regal 300EXT but should be identical except for choice of pump and some cosmetic improvements. There should be just enough room for a Vertex Vectra neck cleaner, which is about 2" lower profile than the Reef Octopus version. Larger reactor will be for biopellets. Smaller ones are for carbon and GFO, with the latter to be used when/if phosphate reduction becomes limited by available nitrate, which probably will happen at some point, or they are disporportionately high. Depending on whether I end up using single or dual return pumps and their throughput, I will either T-off a manifold from a return pump to feed the reactors, or use a dedicated pump in the equipment compartment to supply the reactors. All water in the equipment compartment will have been already processed by the recirculating skimmer, pulled via siphon from the overflow siphon below the surface.

I also will be using a kalk stirrer placed in the return compartment, connected in line with the the automatic top off.
 

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New custom DSA starphire tank ~ 450g

Some Black Friday loot has arrived.

I'm still awaiting a large GHL shipment with Profilux 3 mega pack, four Mitras 6200, and some other goodies; also anticipating a Teco TK-3000 freight delivery soon.

Tank is expected around end of December.

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I was planning on another Zeovit system but am now leaning toward utilizing the large overflow volume to hold XL biopellets (which do not need to be fluidized) in mesh bags instead. The overflow will mostly siphon drain into the external skimmer where mulm can be removed. The small amount that goes through the air channel drain will feed a small refugium then go back to the display, giving a little bacterioplankton food to the corals.

That said if I find a 6L Zeovit reactor, I might reconsider!
 
Really liking the design of the tank, I have been considering something similar with a coast to coast internal overflow built across the back of the tank, what is the back wall of the aquarium where the coast to coast overflow made of, acrylic or glass?
 
Really liking the design of the tank, I have been considering something similar with a coast to coast internal overflow built across the back of the tank, what is the back wall of the aquarium where the coast to coast overflow made of, acrylic or glass?

The four outer walls of the tank are glass, with the front panel only starphire. I believe the overflow divider is also a slightly shorter glass panel, with an attached taller acrylic sheet with the top notched to create the weir.

Normally I would have gone with an external overflow but I had about 48" of usable depth for the system, and figured 48" with internal overflow had some advantages over 42" with external overflow.
 
I'm going to be selling it, taekim, along with basically all my existing equipment including a Deltec AP1003 and MH/VHO light rack.

A few other updates -

I wasn't even able to get a quote for a custom ECO Dreambox so am going to try and have something similar built locally. I also talked myself out of the costly European skimmers for concerns about getting replacement pumps/parts in the future - been burned on this once already!

Just waiting on my quote for 2 Custom ECO Dreambox. Did you try Aquarium Specialty for a quote? That is who I am going through they are a main dealer for RE
 
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