New Deodronephthya sp. study group?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10056454#post10056454 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Morgandy
Why aren't you going to just do dendro's in it? Mixing in SPS and LPS in it seems to be risking the main intent of attempting these guys, and varying the requirements of the whole tank which has been one of the reasons for their failure over time. Just curious..

Also, what size will the tank be, and what about the sump?
Click to expand...

More to my point...
Underwater-0012.jpg

Notice the Softies, along with the Hard corals...Kind of tough to make out, but you can see it if you look hard enough. They are not on the same rock, but for sure in the very same area.

Also, if you watch blue planet, seas of life, you will see reefs that contain all types living amongst each other.

So I think it can be the same in tanks...

I am not sure where the myth came from that SPS, LPS and Softies do not mix in the ocean, but they do. I think people worry due to fighting amongst corals, so maybe that has something to do with it.
 
I might need to apoligize to Reefgeek, my last post might have been harsh and it wasn't intended to be!

You picture is great though! It shows almost exactly what I am trying to do! I am sure you noticed that most of the dendros are attached in such a way as to have water movement almost all the way around them. Thats what I am trying to do.

Since this is a test tank, I don't mind losing alot of normal reef tank space to just open water either. I have a feeling though, that if the corals open to their full extent, they will be streching almost 3/4 of the way between the PVC and the edges of the tank.

I am also unconvinced about mixed reefs, I saw hard corals and dendros next to each other quite often in 20-30' of water, thats both LPS and SPS. Above about 20' it was either SPS or encrusting stuff (including mushrooms and the like).

I will be looking at SPS for a couple of reasons. The first is they are pretty *grin* If the tank isn't pretty I won't take as good care of it, and thats bad for my test. Thought I saw a variety of corals together on the reef, I will be avoiding most other softies. I want as little chemical warfare as possible, so there most likely won't be and leathers or shrooms.

Well 1 of my big boxes is due in tonight, and it should have my controller, and hopefully my polish kit of for the acrylic! Then I can really get this thing started.
 
Oh! I forgot! There will be no external sump. The seaclear 2 is designed as an intergral reef ready tank, that normally holds bioballs in a wet/dry filter. That will be used as a refuguim and place for equipment.

I belive I posted more detail on that in one of my previous post, but I will try to alter that Sketchup image to show this better!

Might even be real pics this weekend!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10057266#post10057266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tactstat
I might need to apoligize to Reefgeek, my last post might have been harsh and it wasn't intended to be!

You picture is great though! It shows almost exactly what I am trying to do! I am sure you noticed that most of the dendros are attached in such a way as to have water movement almost all the way around them. Thats what I am trying to do.

Since this is a test tank, I don't mind losing alot of normal reef tank space to just open water either. I have a feeling though, that if the corals open to their full extent, they will be streching almost 3/4 of the way between the PVC and the edges of the tank.

I am also unconvinced about mixed reefs, I saw hard corals and dendros next to each other quite often in 20-30' of water, thats both LPS and SPS. Above about 20' it was either SPS or encrusting stuff (including mushrooms and the like).

I will be looking at SPS for a couple of reasons. The first is they are pretty *grin* If the tank isn't pretty I won't take as good care of it, and thats bad for my test. Thought I saw a variety of corals together on the reef, I will be avoiding most other softies. I want as little chemical warfare as possible, so there most likely won't be and leathers or shrooms.

Well 1 of my big boxes is due in tonight, and it should have my controller, and hopefully my polish kit of for the acrylic! Then I can really get this thing started.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize at all...Thanks anyways... I am very excited to see this tank in action.

I am going the same route as you, the only softies I am having is the dendos. They are the only ones, I really like.

So keep us posted on all of this.
 
I just chatted with Chuck...He is a really nice guy. Very knowledagable.

He said that his Dendros, did not survive until he brought up his nitrates to levels that will brown or kill SPS. I am noticing growth with min. nitrates in my tank. It was interesting comparing notes.

Hopefully more of us will try and figure this out and start to keep these with success.

I will start to get pics once the new tank is up and going, and of course run a log with it.
 
Intresting... I'll be watching things closely with this tank, and I'll probably start my own web log, since I have the lighthouse anyway.

You guys might like this. This is the planned schematic for the tank.
65gallonSeaClearII.jpg
 
Tactstat - I think the effort you are putting into this is amazing. I see you have thought a lot about flow. I think the gyre style flow with the long cycle times will give you the results you are looking for.

Have you thought about your feeding plan? Are you planning on doing any sand stirring?
 
Alright 2 part post, first is the feeding plan. There will be no sand, at all in the system. Normally I go for deep sand beds personally, but with a plastic tank, and 3-4 really big pumps blowing in circles its just a bad idea. I'll be looking into the sponge feeding described earlier in this thread. As for artifical foods I'll be taking a que from gonipora.org. they have a really nice food description area, and nice size ranges on what I think I'll need.

Alright Part II: How to find out if my flow is right.

Since we already seem to know what a good flow rate is for feeding our favorite coral, the question is how to do we get it. I want to hit ~6"/sec flow rate across the entire feeding area of the coral, in a broad sweeping pattern.

I know the gyre tank will provide the style of flow, but how do I find out how fast its going? This is the process I intend to follow, and I would love comments!

According to Mr Dana Riddle, in his article Quantifying Flow Rates in the Reef Aquarium, he measured a Hagen 802 powerhead as having a flow of about .5' at about 15". While this a great measurement it doesn't help me in measuring flow speed in a circle.

Mr Richard Harker provided just what I needed in his article Measuring Turbulent Flow In Reef Tanks. His idea of using plaster of paris dissolition will allow me to measure my comparative flow rate at different radius from the center of the gyre. I can use a control vessel to measure dissolution in a stagnet tank, and 15" away from a Hagen 802, which I just happen to have.

The dissolution in front of the 802 will allow me to tell how much plaster dissolves at 6"/sec. From that I can compare the tiles at various radius in order to find the perfect speed around the circle.

Alright some links, and the first fitting pic, and I think thats enough for this post!

Measuring Turbulent Flow In Reef Tanks
http://web.archive.org/web/20000831...om/fish2/aqfm/1998/aug/features/1/default.asp

Quantifying Flow Rates in the Reef Aquarium and the Requirement of One Acropora Species
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i3_riddle/riddle1.htm

And the pic!
PICT0327.jpg
 
sorry if this has been mentioned, but any news on the use of the fauna marin polymer / enzyme foods specifically made for filter feeders etc... last i heard they were haveing good success with dendros using a bacterioplankton system and those types of foods...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10098353#post10098353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
sorry if this has been mentioned, but any news on the use of the fauna marin polymer / enzyme foods specifically made for filter feeders etc... last i heard they were haveing good success with dendros using a bacterioplankton system and those types of foods...
Click to expand...

Can you point me in the proper direction to find this food? Thanks.
 
I have been using various Fauna Marin products for the last 6 months. All have merit, so far. The Ultra Mins plus Ultra Organics are dosed daily to my aquarium to feed the corals and lower animals. I use Ultra Seafan for my Crinoids and Gorgonians, along with the more typical Cyclopeze. Also, I use some fine dust foods from Timo, another European company possibly not yet in North America.

The polymer food, Ultra Pac, has fans in Germany, but some do not like it. I think it will generally depend on your animals and feeding habits. It is more of a food carrier than a food of itself. It is mixed with other Ultra products to create a 'Custom' slime for filter feeders. I, also, have used Ultra Clam for filter feeders and my animals are all still healthy and growing.

It is difficult to know if any given product is the answer, as every animal is a bit different. I have had great success with Crinoids, but less with Dendros. My biggest problem with Dendros/Scleros has been bristle worms attacking them! They never get a chance to settle in.

hope this helps,

:D
 
The polymer food, Ultra Pac, has fans in Germany, but some do not like it. I think it will generally depend on your animals and feeding habits. It is more of a food carrier than a food of itself. It is mixed with other Ultra products to create a 'Custom' slime for filter feeders. I, also, have used Ultra Clam for filter feeders and my animals are all still healthy and growing.

It is difficult to know if any given product is the answer, as every animal is a bit different. I have had great success with Crinoids, but less with Dendros. My biggest problem with Dendros/Scleros has been bristle worms attacking them! They never get a chance to settle in.

hope this helps,

:D [/B]
Click to expand...


HI Jamie

The UltraPac was never intended as a food, just as a carrier, but apparently it works as a food as well, however in a rather indirect way.
A friend of mine is preparing the stuff together with some other Fauna Marin Products in a beaker and lets it sit on a nice and warm T5 pendant for a few hours (up to one day). After it becomes really yucky and slimey he uses it for the corals. His impression is that the reaction of the corals is even better. UltraPac contains a mix of different polysaccharides. Most probably bacteria start breaking that stuff down, so perhaps not the UltraPac is causing the feeding response, but the bacteria munching on it.


Jens
 
Sorry I've been away, quite busy. I was able to speak to Chuck Stottlemeyer recently, and have proposed that we sponsor an early report for general publication. His tank is at seven months and demonstrates some important points:

1) Drip phytoplankton Reeds' Shellfish Diet continuously.
2) Vodka method for nutrient control and possibly bacterial bloom as food. Some turbidity occurs on a regular basis. Never stop the feed drip!
3) Temp max at 76, no deviations greater than 1 degree to 77 during the seven months this tank has been up.
4) Linear flow.
5) Frag to 1 inch branchlets on arrival.

There are other aspects to his tank that may be important, and I may not have gotten the points exactly right. But, I think Chuck's basic outline here is about what I have seen over the years. His tank is at seven months, but what's important here is that he has excellent polyp extension, the dendros being expanded about 20 hours/day, and he has dense polyp formation and clear growth. Like acro keepers, I believe we should value polyp extension- and recovery of previously regressed fragments (to some extent, as they do do into a regression due to transient factors and may spontaneously come out again after somewhat skinning over) - as a positive sign worth reporting.

I curently have some scleros that are over 2.5 years old, but they are just nubbins- they have been through many experiments. I prefer these to new specimens since I feel I know them personally and any improvement or growth is easily appreciated. I am currently working on automatic live phyto and rotifer drips, using the SS strain of Brachionis rotundiformis, which is smaller than the usual rotifers; I am also using UVB reptile lights to grow the algae, as I was suspicious that the phyto we have been using is deficient in vitamin D, and that this may be needed for flagellae activity and may be relevant for colony collapsing syndrome. That's just speculation, but I had become suspicious that either phyto was not what they were eating (that is, maybe Widdig was right, although his methods of truncating branchlets prior to testing seems extermely doubtful relevance to me) or maybe the phyto was deficient in vitamin D since it was grown under flourescent rather than UVB emitting lights. I am tryingto replicate Joyce Wilkerson's outside tub method of culturing rotifers, except inside, using two tubs in sequence, one for phyto and one for rotifers, with an aquiliter pump pushing through the two tubs connected by rigid airline tube, then overflow to the aquarium. I am using no aeration, and instead of a UV filter for the incoming water from the tank, I am not using anything so far- the stagnant water seems to select for self-suspending algae that are heavy in lipids, and also is suitable to the rotifers (like the outside tubs). So far, so good, but too early.

Again, hope Amy and Chuck will be interested in writing this up-

Charles
 
New Pictures..

New Pictures..

I've posted new pictures that Chuck took recently.

Non-photosynthetic/Dendro Tank

I am going to go back and date all previous pictures, and then start putting the same species side by side so we can see the progressive growth and changes. I'll also be sure to get all species names possible from him before I upload them.

He'll have to answer any questions you have!

thx..
 
Nice Pictures again Amy, It sounds as if we've got a front row seat to a break through in the reefing hobby. I should probably stop over chucks house more to see how things are progressing
Erik
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10561610#post10561610 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Stottlemire
Hi everyone
just wondering if anybody is still playing with the dendro systems maybe get some new pics posted
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll cough some up! :D

These of course are from the tank of Chuck himself...hit my website/redhouse to see more. There are a couple very short video clips at the end of one page 1 of the dendro pics, and I'll get some more clips posted soon.

I'd like to hear also how some of you guys are coming along, if you have more news.

A partial tank shot:
072507_c24_w.jpg


Frag cut mark:
roxasiafragcut.jpg


Frag:
roxasia_frag.jpg


The tank really is breathtaking. There have been several of us who have given him dendros/scleros/swiftia's/gorgonians, on and on, that have been near death, and they come back to life and start growth in the dang thing!
 
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