New In-wall Project Begins

If I have the space, I've thought of doing just that but with a much smaller tank. A buddy of mine has his tank setup that way and it works well. For the sump/fuge, I'm thinking of using a 75g Rubbermaid stock tank or a Tuff Stuff 85g tank.

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-Doug
 
Hi Doug,
Just for reference, I ordered a tank from glass cages today and when I wanted to off the sizes a little, this is what they told me:
Length is okay in any size, but when I asked for a 26" depth, they said that the depth can only go in 6" increments.
Also the height had some restraints too.
So when I wanted too stretch the 120 to a 140 by going 48x26x26, they said no can do. It was either 48x24x25 or 48x30x25 or 48x30x31. Guess what, I stayed with the 48x24x25!

They also do not offer black silicone.

In case you wanted some price comparison on a standard 120g:

48x24x25 euro-braced 1/2" tank with no center brace - $230
Front and side starphire/low iron glass upgrade - $125
$20 per overflow
$25 per acrylic overflow cover
$20 per hole drilled (up to 1.5")
$15 per sched 80 bulkhead

No shipping but a pick up fee of $60 at their Pet Expo show. (Guess I'm lucky that I'm near one of their shows)

It was probably silly of me to get this, but for $40, they would give me a piece of color matched acylic sheet to cover the back wall. They also would drill out the holes where my additional bulkheads would be.
I did this so that I didn't have to paint the back glass and since the acrylic overflow cover is removable, I thought i can change color schemes (from blue to black) if I didn't like the blue. Of course, I understand that it would not be an easy task once the plumbing is on and the tank filled, but it was as least a non-permanent solution.
I originally asked for an acrylic sheet inside the back wall because this is how my RR Oceanic tank came and after 12yrs, it still has a clean look, blending in perfectly with the overflow (fresh water, so no coralline), but they won't do this because they said that silicone is not a good adhesive with acrylic and they can't use solvent. Meanwhile Oceanic did this with silicone (you can see from the back of the tank) and it has held tightly in place all this time.
I asked him how do people keep the acrylic sheet in place, would you believe he said duct tape! There's got to be a better and cleaner way. Any ideas?
 
If you get the lumenarc reflectors and moguls from pacific garden, don't forget to get the pigtails also so you can easily plug into your metal halide ballast.

Matt
 
Pecan,

Thanks for the information. I looked at glasscages but read a lot of mixed feedback on their quality. I look forward to the comments on your new tank. When will you have it? If I run them math correctly from your numbers, we would be around $580 before shipping. You are lucky to be able to pick up your tank. We were quoted $399 to have a tank shipped out here.

I've been talking to AquariumObsessed about the center overflow version I posted a little bit ago. I'll see how the numbers come back on it. I'm sure it will be more than glasscages, but it may be worth it for our application. I still haven't heard back from the guys over in Utah that were going to order a Lee Mar for us. That avenue may be a bust...

As for attaching your acrylic backer, I've use some 3M double sided acrylic tape with good results. We pick it up at our FredMeyer, but I'm sure you have something comparable out in your area.

-Doug
 
Doug,
Glass Cages worked for me due to the availability for pick up vs shipping and it's related cost. Granted there is a pick up fee, it's equivalent I guess to paying sales tax if I bought it locally. I'm also not sure of their quality but no local (only one that I know of and had done business with years ago) tank builders offer starphire glass and the tank I had them build me 15 yrs ago (they build tanks for the Brooklyn aquarium) used regular glass, was euro-braced but they still needed a glass center brace, glass pane joints were not perfectly even, unscored silicone edges and all this on a 90g tank that cost more than a standard 120g euro-braced tank from Glass Cages.

If I was willing to pay the cost of shipping (which would probably equate to 90% of the cost of a tank), I would pick Inter-American up in Canada. I've seen one or two of their tanks and the little touches such as black silicone with scored edges and perfectly flush glass joints tells me that the quality is there.

Your right on the dollar mark for the $580 amount. I also ordered the oak stand and canopy since I have the carpentry skills of Homer Simpson. So $280 for the 30" stand and $140 for a 12" canopy puts my total at an even grand plus $80 for the pick up fee.

Pick up of the tank would be next Sat or Sun, I'll probably shoot up there with a friend on Sunday.

What was interesting and a bit of a shock was when I called them back yesterday about 5 hrs after I ordered the tank to check the placement of the overflow holes and he told me that the holes were probably drilled and that the tank was most likely assembled already. I originally asked for a 10x6.5 overflow box with two 1.5" drains drilled on the bottom. When I called him back to make sure the holes were placed in a way so that I can install two Durso standpipes, he told me that he would have to widen the box to 14" whether the holes were drilled already or not. He said I needed the additional length if I plan to install dual Durso standpipes. Hope this helps in your planning.

I also did not ask him to drill any holes in the euro-brace due to him informing me that if I wanted 1.5" holes in the euro-brace, he would need to widen the euro-brace to 6", which I thought was a bit much for the perimeter of a 48x24 tank. I figure it also wasn't cost effective (yeah right, the guy who bought a $40 acrylic backer cause he was too lazy to paint the glass) for the added charge of the extended euro-brace and $20 for each hole I wanted which would have been 2 for the 3/4" Sea-Swirls and four for the 1" OM 4-way returns.

For now, I'll just purchase the acrylic tank mount adaptors for the Sea-Swirls for $19 a piece and mount the overhead PVC returns for the OM 4-way similiar to what 5y5tem Overload is doing in his setup but just with the back returns hugging the edges of the center overflow so that I can get my Sea-Swirls in the back corner.


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I'm going to shoot for two Reeflo Darts, one to run the OM 4-way (thanks for the idea! :D) and the other from the sump return to be tee'd to the pair of 3/4" Sea-Swirls, an EV-120 (I know I need to upgrade this, but I just have this sitting in a box), feed for Ca reactor, feed for Phosban reactor and somewhere in the this mix, I need to plumb in my chiller.
 
That's good information on the overflow box. The last time I talked with AquariumObsession, he recommended the single center overflow over two (2) corner overflows. At 14" wide, the overflow would be ~30% of the back, but if it is shallow, I'm sure it will look great! Did they mention the front to back depth of the overflow for the Durso?

I had heard that glasscages orders all of their glass pre-cut which would explain why they may not be able to "customize" beyond some standard dimensions.

I corresponded with a retailer down in California regarding the difference between the 4200SEQ12 and Dart pumps. Here was their thoughts.
The 4200 has a different impeller trim which allows the pump to be more quite as well as slightly more energy efficient. The dart has a better seal though. I have never had a problem with the stanrd Sequence seals, so I would go with the 4200 unless budget is a major concern, then the Dart would be my choice.
I've done a little wood work in my time but there is some elegance in buying a stand already done. Here is a shot of our current stand and hood that we built. I figure that we will be selling the whole thing as soon as we get the new one setup.

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The raised panel doors were a little difficult, but it helps to have the right tools.

I can't wait to see the new system when you get it!!! Be sure to post a picture. If you start a new thread of your "adventure", be sure to put a link in this thread.

Where are you going to get your Dart pump?

-Doug
 
Doug,
Let me say that if I could build a stand and finish it like the one you have in the pic, I would have gone for a 30" depth tank. I pondered for days trying to convince myself to just have someone build me a 28" height stand so that I can flip it and get the 30" depth through my 29" basement doorway. Here's the clincher, as I was about to order my tank, a local reefer posted that he was selling a 42x30x22 starphire, euro-braced, center overflow, 2 additional bulkheads drilled for closed loop tank that he ordered and from Glass Cages and is scheduled for pick up also at the show on 1/15/05.
He paid $600 (starphire on front panel only) and was selling it for $450 delivered. I so wanted this tank even though it was 6" shorter in length and 3" shorter in height but it had the tantalizing 30" depth and it was brand new at a 25% discount. Where else can you find a deal like that and I also felt bad for the guy because it's quite upsetting to see your dreams sitting on the living room floor and not being able to set it up cause your landlord said no. But in the end, I went with my 48x24x25 because if I could find someone to do a 28" height stand and the tank being only 22", it would be a bit short IMO. (geez, I always get side tracked, sorry)

If the Reeflo Dart (1/8 hp) was in doubt, I also considered the Ampmaster 2100 (1/15 hp). They both have HD saltwater seals and a low RPM motor (1725 RPM) which shoud keep them both quiet. The Ampmaster is probably rated a little bit better for higher head pressure but less gph where as the Dart is probably a low pressure pump with a higher gph. I don't think either of my application would need a higher pressure pump than the Dart has to produce. Couple that with a max of 160 watts vs the Amp's 230 watts and about a $35 difference per pump. I like Iwakis due to the magnetic drive with no seals to leak but they cost a lot, suck up wattage and the RXT-20 that I've been running for years on my 90g FOWLR is hot to the touch.

Custom Aquatics has the best price on the Darts at $184.99 but I'll pick up mines locally from:
http://www.acropora.net/reeflo.htm
He's $10 more per pump but that almost equates to shipping cost from custom aquatics and I can just pick them up when I need them and have him locally as an intervention with Sequence for any warranty issues. (it helps when the retailer contacts the manufacturer/distributor for the customer)
 
Hey LittleSilverMax,

Which version of 4-way drum are you using? I was thinking about Ver.2 (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-1). Any thoughts?

120G_CONCEPT04.jpg


-Doug
 
I've dealt with Tom from Glass Cages and his work is very good. I have another friend who is placing an order with him as well. I liked dealing with Tom, because he was easy to work with and did what I wanted at a decent price. I had my eurobracing drilled to accept my plumbing for my OM so it wouldn't be draped over the edge of the tank. If your doing a custom tank you should pull out all the stops and take care of the little details. I would seriously consider doing a center overflow rather than 2 end overflows.
 
Great input Chris...

The look of the center overflow is growing on me. I want to make sure I don't limit the amount of beach front property with the overflow. With 28" (possibly 30"), we should be in good shape.

I have to agree that Tom's prices are great and he was very nice to talk to over the phone.

-Doug
 
Busy thread!

I went with version 1 of the 4-way. 1, 2, 3, 4

If you have sufficiently sized piping (outlets all 1.5 inches, or equivelant multiple outlets) I believe that you get stronger more natural flow. Don't forget thet most of the time the drum is in transition and you are getting flow from two nozzles at a time.

If you have the version 1 drum you can alwasy enlarge it with a dremel, or you can just order a couple of drums and try them out.

Also, it will only cost a couple hundred dollars more to have starphire glass on three sides. I would strongly recommend this if they are at all viewable, you will notice, especially the seams will not look as clear. BTW clear silicone looks better then black when you are using starphire IMO.


Wider, wider, wider..........:thumbsup:
 
Doug go with as much turn over as possible thru your sump. In my first setup I used a mag 12 plumbed thru .75" pvc and thought it was great (yea right). After talking to Marc L (http://www.melevsreef.com/) and finally listening to him. I came up with this, I got rid of the loc-line which is crap ime and plumbed the pump thru 1.25" pvc and then used the existing .75" return bulkhead as a drain, my acros are loving life. With this mod I see two things that I got from the switch , More Flow (which you will what down the road) and more skimming.. Plus the two snakes of .75" loc-line are gone forever. I could have saved myself all this trouble had I just read the directions that came with the pump.
I hope this make sense to you and anyone else I know Marc was tired of explaining this to me but once I caught on it was party time. Now if I could just get this camera and the macro photo right I would lay it on the RC. And just for name sake I could have never made it this far with out you all on the RC...

Beaver
 
Littlesilvermax,

The returns will be plumbed in 1.5" Spaflex or rigid PVC right out of the 4-way. I had planned to split the returns and run multiple 3/4" loc-line returns. That's still up for debate at this point.

Version 1 sounds like a good choice. I can always modify the drum later or order a new one for ~$20.

Beaver - We are still debating what the in-tank portion of the returns will look like. Thanks for the feedback. Were you using the 3/4" or 1/2" loc-line?

-Doug
 
I was going to plumb my 4-way with spa flex tubing until I looked at the price.

That stuff is way too expensive.
 
Furshere - How much were you finding SpaFlex for? A better solution for us may be to plumb the runs in rigid PVC and have a vibration joint in spaflex for each line.
 
That's steep... I was looking at our local farm implament store the other day. The black was ~1.40/foot and white was ~1.60/foot for the 2". They also had the 1.5" for a little less.
 
I got 2 Sequence Darts. Great pumps and very quiet.
I 'm also in the process of building my tank. I decided to go 30" deep and I'm glad I did. It looks great but what a reach. Wish I had longer arms.
 
ftlaud - We looked at 30" deep, but it didn't look good proportionally on the wall. Fortunately, we will have good access on all three sides of the tank from the back so we are going to extend to 28" or 30" front to back.

The Dart's look good and have a good price point. I was going to use a Dart for our sump return, but think a Little Giant, T4, or Blue Line would be better. I found a Sequence 4200SEQ12 w/SW seals for $210. It should work well for the closed loop as long as the seals hold up. I've been told the SW seals in the Reeflo series are a little better than those in the 750 series pumps.

-Doug
 
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