New In-wall Project Begins

[dougchambers]

Pecan,

We can convert to a rectangular design also. I like the look of the trapezoid, but it isn't more cosmetic than anything.

I designed for the 1.5" Durso drains thinking I can always scale back if needed. It's harder to scale up in my mind... (Scary place to be... The mind that is!)

-Doug

 

[dougchambers]

Tyler - Nice design. That's a lot of holes in a small area. Are you worried about the structural integrity?

-Doug

 

[tgunn]

Tyler - Nice design. That's a lot of holes in a small area. Are you worried about the structural integrity?
-Doug

Thanks Doug,

I'm unsure whether my design is even feasible. My main goal was to try and pack things in to as small of an overflow as possible; thus the swiss cheese tank.

I will likely move the closed loop drain over into the middle of the left side of the tank.

As for the overflow I have been mulling over other possible configurations to decrease the number of holes.

I'd love to just sit the tank away from the wall so I could run returns externally along the tank back, but I want to keep the tiled area for the tank as small as possible...

I suppose I should consider keeping the closed loop drains and returns outside of the overflow as you have.. Since I'm making all my rock myself I could easily hide the returns and drains.

Oie! So many factors to consider.

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[dougchambers]

Tyler ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“

I would absolutely move your closed loop drains outside of the overflow. Here is my reasoning;

1 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ If you are pushing your standard sump effluent and closed loop effluent through the same overflow, you will have a lot of water flow over a very small area which will produce more noise and salt creep.

2 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ If you loose or shut off your sump return, you will continue to have water flowing into the overflow that feeds the sump drain. An equilibrium will be met at some point because of the Durso, but you could continue to seep water into the sump until the closed loop intake runs dry or sucks air because too much water transferred to the sump. This depends on how low your closed loop inlets are in the overflow, but I personally didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t want water flowing over the overflow with the chance of some flow diverting to the sump.

3 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ You can keep your closed loop return lines in the overflow, but you will have to come over the top for all of the returns. If you put your closed loop drain(s) and return(s) in the bottom of the tank, you can hid them with rock and have less plumbing showing in the tank. It will also allow you to push water from the bottom of the tank up and around the rocks rather than blowing at them.

Just some thoughtsââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦

 

[tgunn]

Tyler ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“

I would absolutely move your closed loop drains outside of the overflow. Here is my reasoning;

Whoops, I didn't explain myself correctly at all. The two dursos in my overflow are sump returns; I know they're WAY overkill but I wanted to have redundancy incase one plugged up. Two of the 1" returns are returns from the sump, and the other 2 are cloed loop returns.

3 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ You can keep your closed loop return lines in the overflow, but you will have to come over the top for all of the returns. If you put your closed loop drain(s) and return(s) in the bottom of the tank, you can hid them with rock and have less plumbing showing in the tank. It will also allow you to push water from the bottom of the tank up and around the rocks rather than blowing at them.

I think I'm going to do just that; the more I think about it the more I'd like to get rid of the swiss-cheese overflow.

I am going to have to draw up a new diagram, but I should now be able to simply put 3 1.5" bulkheads in the overflow; 2 drain and 1 return.

Then the closed loop could be similar to the 4 holes you have outside your overflow. Heh.

What was your reason for chosing 2" drains over 1.5" drains?

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[pecan2phat]

I think the Sequence pump that Doug will use might have a 2" inlet, hence just easier to plumb.

 

[dougchambers]

Tyler,

Pecan is correct. We will be using a Sequence 4200SEQ12 that has a 2" inlet and 1.5" outlet. By using two 2" drains, we effectively reduce the effluent pulled by each port by 50% as compared to a single drain. It also creates a bit of redundancy if we have any blockage.

I'm looking at pretty much the same configuration with two (2) 1.5" Durso drains (Thanks Richard) and a single 1.5" return that will branch once it clears the top of the tank.

What are you using for your diagrams? Your assumption was correct that ours are drawn in AutoCAD.

-Doug

 

[tgunn]

Tyler,

Pecan is correct. We will be using a Sequence 4200SEQ12 that has a 2" inlet and 1.5" outlet. By using two 2" drains, we effectively reduce the effluent pulled by each port by 50% as compared to a single drain. It also creates a bit of redundancy if we have any blockage.

I'm looking at pretty much the same configuration with two (2) 1.5" Durso drains (Thanks Richard) and a single 1.5" return that will branch once it clears the top of the tank.

What are you using for your diagrams? Your assumption was correct that ours are drawn in AutoCAD.

-Doug

Hi Doug,

Okay, gotcha. I guess it's best to pull in from 2 drains to help keep things from getting sucked in to the drain as well. Good point on the redundancy there too; I'll have to keep that in mind for my layout.

I recognized the font used as the one that Autocad uses by default for it's text. My diagrams are created in Visio. I kinda wish I'd have used a real cad program like autocad so I could generate some 3-D views, but I think for the purpose I need them for the 2-D visio hacks are good enough.

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[dougchambers]

After looking through the Large Tank forum, I had an epiphanyââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ Scary!

Carlos had a great idea when he built his tank. What if I was to move the overflow to the back of the tank? Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve seen it done with acrylic, but not too often with glass. We could maximize the tank for the door opening at 30ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ and mount the overflow box once we dropped the tank in place.

I love the idea! Hereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a conceptual drawing. What do you think?

 

[tgunn]

I love the idea! Hereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a conceptual drawing. What do you think?

I've always thought that having an external overflow like that was a great idea. It removes the bulky intrusive overflow from the display tank and gives so much more room to work with.

If I was doing a room divider or in wall tank I'd probably go with an external overflow myself.

Tyler

 

[dougchambers]

The idea looks good, but the more I think about it, the more concern I have about stress concentration points where the cut-out is for the overflow. If the builder created a nice big radius to cut, it should be fine, but it's still a risk.

-Doug

 

[pecan2phat]

In hindsight, I would have also looked into an external overflow. Looking at my tank now as I try to complete the plumbing and the 14"x7.5" box is huge and intrusive. Makes the tank look small now.

 

[javajaws]

Doug,

What I did on my tank was to do an external durso. I have my drain holes drilled in the upper side of the tank. The 90 elbow of the durso is the only thing in the box. The tee and standpipe are outside of the tank. The dimensions of the overflow box are: 10Lx4.5Wx8H. They accomodate 2 1.5" bulkheads w/elbows. Alot less space than if they went all the way to the bottom of the tank and if I had to have space for the tee in it.

My returns go over the top of the tank and I have a different but similar arrangment at the other end of the tank for the CL intakes.

- Jason

 

[dougchambers]

Jason -

Interesting idea. The nice thing about bulkheads in the back for the Durso elbow is that it shouldn't weaken the back wall as much.

-Doug

 

[jeffbrig]

Doug,

Good call on the external box. I would have done the same on my tank if the location would have allowed it. Do you have any concerns about the silicone holding the overflow box to the side of the tank long-term? I'm wondering if this could be a reason why this is only commonly seen on acrylic tanks.

Jeff

 

[dougchambers]

Doug,

Good call on the external box. I would have done the same on my tank if the location would have allowed it. Do you have any concerns about the silicone holding the overflow box to the side of the tank long-term? I'm wondering if this could be a reason why this is only commonly seen on acrylic tanks.

Jeff

Hey Jeff...

Acrylic definitely has the advantage on a overflow off the back design because it actually bonds or welds to itself. I think there are a couple of reasons that this design may not be as popular in glass. The biggest is probably because of the potential for causing a stress concentration point where the cut-out is for the overflow. If the cut-out has a big radius, it should help minimize the stresses.

If we stick with this design, we will have to attach the overflow after we drop the tank in place. The overflow will hang off the back too far to fit through the door. If the glass is prepared well and the silicone is good, we should get a good attachment. I was planning on using a full depth overflow so it runs the full height of the tank and can be supported just like the tank. We will also use some SpaFlex in areas to keep from pre-stressing or applying a load to the box which would promote failure.

-Doug

 

[dougchambers]

Thought I'd give a quick update on the new build status.

We received our first shipment from Savko with most of the valves nipples, and fittings for the closed loop. I'm waiting for them to get some 2" Single union ball valves for the CL drains. We still need to order some gate valves and a few other pieces USPlastics. I mocked up the OM 4-Way on the Sequence pump and it's not trivial in size, but it looks GREAT! Instead of necking down to 1.5" right out of the pump, we scaled back up to 2" and will use a 2" union and gate valve to feed the OM4-way. Everything post 4-way will be in 1.5" SpaFlex and rigid. We also got 5' of 2" SpaFlex, but it's pretty rigid.

Wahooo.... The build permits are finally in and we break ground next week. I'm still working with a couple of tank builder to figure out the best design, but we are definitely going with an off-the back overflow. One thought is to run a 24" overflow across the back and have two ~6" cut-outs for the effluent. Then we could have at least 8" of back wall web attached the eurobrace in the center for better support.

One of the dissadvantages I've come up with with the off-the back overflow is that the blue or black acrylic will have to be on the inside of the back wall. We had originally planned to use mirror on the back and two sides, but that's not as much of an option now.

Does anyone have shots of using a stock tank for a combined refugium/sump? I haven't decided how to attach dividers to the stock tank to partition the refugium area. Any ideas?

-Doug

 

[dougchambers]

After over a month of planning and searching for a tank builder, we've finalized the design and ordered the tank. Derek from Miracles Aquariums will be building the tank. Here are the final drawings for the build.

The final design ended up 30" deep like so many suggested and I moved the overflow off the back. I will share pictures of the build as I get them.

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement and ideas for the design.

-Doug

 

[tgunn]

Great design Doug! I only wish I had the space to be able to do my tank like that. I can't wait to see the finished product!

 

[dougchambers]

Thanks tgunn... We can't wait! Savko called and got in the 2" single union ball valves for the drains. Those and the gate valves will be here next week.

Now we are just down to the return pump (leaning towards the BL1000), the sump/refugium, and if we want to order the Luminarc reflectors. The Luminarcs look great, but we would have to put a VHO Actinic under the edge to get it all over the tank.

-Doug