New lighting maroon clowns
- Thread starter RyanSweatt2004
- Start date
bues0022
New member
That's pathetic.
I guess it's not totally unexpected though. Matt rubs shoulders with many with high influence in the hobby, and the repeated exposure over 3 years allowed for a lot of drumming up interest. I'm hoping that CORAL runs a 6-page article on other "new" clowns to also help pad the pockets of other breeders who are actually pushing the limits, and continue filling inboxes with email updates on the progress to keep up enthusiasm.
I find this whole situation unbelievably ironic. Matt is, and continues to be very outspoken against "designer" clowns, calling it the guppification of saltwater breeding. Sure, some hybrids are not readily found in nature, but line breeding is nothing new (do you like Corn? That's sure not natural). Now, on the top of his "undesirables" list are hybrids. Now ask yourself, why in the world would a maroon clownfish be worth $10,000 to someone? Generally speaking, maroons have large nests. If the genetics are really as strong as seen in Matt's case (which leads to more questions about why this hasn't been seen more readily before, even without much collection at PNG), it will take only a few batches of well-raised fish to saturate the market, thereby crashing the price. Unless this trait were hybridized. Can you imagine lightening onyx? lightening picasso? how about more easily attained - lightening GSM? That is where the money might be worth it.
Matt - perhaps one of the largest proponent of pure-blood, non-designer fish in the hobby, has now successfully been one of the single largest influences in the designer clownfish industry.
I guess it's not totally unexpected though. Matt rubs shoulders with many with high influence in the hobby, and the repeated exposure over 3 years allowed for a lot of drumming up interest. I'm hoping that CORAL runs a 6-page article on other "new" clowns to also help pad the pockets of other breeders who are actually pushing the limits, and continue filling inboxes with email updates on the progress to keep up enthusiasm.
I find this whole situation unbelievably ironic. Matt is, and continues to be very outspoken against "designer" clowns, calling it the guppification of saltwater breeding. Sure, some hybrids are not readily found in nature, but line breeding is nothing new (do you like Corn? That's sure not natural). Now, on the top of his "undesirables" list are hybrids. Now ask yourself, why in the world would a maroon clownfish be worth $10,000 to someone? Generally speaking, maroons have large nests. If the genetics are really as strong as seen in Matt's case (which leads to more questions about why this hasn't been seen more readily before, even without much collection at PNG), it will take only a few batches of well-raised fish to saturate the market, thereby crashing the price. Unless this trait were hybridized. Can you imagine lightening onyx? lightening picasso? how about more easily attained - lightening GSM? That is where the money might be worth it.
Matt - perhaps one of the largest proponent of pure-blood, non-designer fish in the hobby, has now successfully been one of the single largest influences in the designer clownfish industry.
jmadison
rebmeM deretsigeR
papua new guinea
OrionN
Moved on
He certainly sold one of the most expensive designer clownfish ever. I don't know of any designer clown fish that sold for more.
It is ironic indeed if Matt "...is, and continues to be very outspoken against "designer" clowns, calling it the guppification of saltwater breeding..." and at the same time sold the most expensive designer clownfish ever.
It is ironic indeed if Matt "...is, and continues to be very outspoken against "designer" clowns, calling it the guppification of saltwater breeding..." and at the same time sold the most expensive designer clownfish ever.
bues0022
New member
From the bluezooaquatics website:
You see, Pedersen is not at all interested in what have come to be called “designer clownfishes,” and he has been a vocal advocate against “man-made hybridization” and the "guppification" of marine fish. Luckily, while this clownfish may look to some like the most guppified designer clownfish ever, this PNG lightning maroon clownfish is a one hundred percent “natural” fish.
http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/resources.asp?show=416
That statement is incredibly contradictory. It seems to infer that the so-called "guppified" designer fish are not natural. I will argue until I am blue in the face that a picasso or onyx is not natural. They certainly are wild-caught.
Had the lightening maroon been discovered in someone's grow-out tank would Matt still be as receptive to the idea of this fish even existing? Let alone fight hard to get the fish and attempt to breed it?
I know that some hybrids at first glance may not seem too natural, but I have a strong belief that if a hybrid is possible without massive interventions, it is also possible in the wild. ORA has found strange hybrids in their grow-outs, likely the result of drifting sperm in their brood-stock tanks. Why can this not happen in the wild? It seems like there are stories every week on other SW blogs bragging about another hybrid angel or butterfly. Why are clowns exempt from this notion? I'm not saying we need to hybridize and distort everything, but designer clowns certainly have their role in the market, and have done wonders to spur enthusiasm about captive breeding while at the same time funding efforts to maintain healthy wild and captive pure specimins.
You see, Pedersen is not at all interested in what have come to be called “designer clownfishes,” and he has been a vocal advocate against “man-made hybridization” and the "guppification" of marine fish. Luckily, while this clownfish may look to some like the most guppified designer clownfish ever, this PNG lightning maroon clownfish is a one hundred percent “natural” fish.
http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/resources.asp?show=416
That statement is incredibly contradictory. It seems to infer that the so-called "guppified" designer fish are not natural. I will argue until I am blue in the face that a picasso or onyx is not natural. They certainly are wild-caught.
Had the lightening maroon been discovered in someone's grow-out tank would Matt still be as receptive to the idea of this fish even existing? Let alone fight hard to get the fish and attempt to breed it?
I know that some hybrids at first glance may not seem too natural, but I have a strong belief that if a hybrid is possible without massive interventions, it is also possible in the wild. ORA has found strange hybrids in their grow-outs, likely the result of drifting sperm in their brood-stock tanks. Why can this not happen in the wild? It seems like there are stories every week on other SW blogs bragging about another hybrid angel or butterfly. Why are clowns exempt from this notion? I'm not saying we need to hybridize and distort everything, but designer clowns certainly have their role in the market, and have done wonders to spur enthusiasm about captive breeding while at the same time funding efforts to maintain healthy wild and captive pure specimins.
Ambition
New member
To me "designer" clownfish means you likely won't find it in the wild. Onyx perculas aren't all that hard to find in the wild IIRC. Picasso clownfish started with a WC picasso clownfish. As such they really aren't designers to me, more so highly sought after variations from the wild. A lightning maroon clownfish would fit in this category for me as well. I haven't looked at the origins of all variations, but patterning or variations showing up in captivity only has me thinking designer (IIRC snowflakes came from clutches from European breeders originally). This is just my opinion.
bues0022
New member
I just read Matt's blog on the sale of this fish. First, I can't believe how ugly the fish are. The deformaties on those fish make them look just flat out terrible. It makes me question if the fish really are in the best hands to produce the best offspring as possible.
I also like how he seemingly graciously extended his hand at helping out the person who purchased both fish to pair and spawn the fish - something he struggled exhorbantly with and couldn't figure out without significant help from other professional breeders. My tip for whomever purchased both fish: Ignore Matt and do your own thing.
I also like how he seemingly graciously extended his hand at helping out the person who purchased both fish to pair and spawn the fish - something he struggled exhorbantly with and couldn't figure out without significant help from other professional breeders. My tip for whomever purchased both fish: Ignore Matt and do your own thing.
