NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

rufio173 said:
Well, if it's a problem w/ getting water actually into the oveflow box, then no, upsizing the size from drain pipe to your sump will not matter, but if it were not your overflow teeth restricting flow, then yes, it would help. Peace John H.
I'm not positive it's the teeth yet.
The bulkhead is a 1Ã"šÃ‚½" bh that's reduced down to 1". I don't know why...it's the way I got it. That's why I have the 1Ã"šÃ‚½" pipe inside the overflow box, and why I used 1" pipe going into the sump.
I have it running beautifully now, but just concerned about closing off the valve going from the sump to the pump (restricting the flow somewhat and not running it fully open). I don't want to burn the pump out. It's not hot or anything or else it would have shut off automatically.
 
Patsan,
let me know if this is info-overkill, hehe, just been watching this thread lately.
I have it running beautifully now, but just concerned about closing off the valve going from the sump to the pump (restricting the flow somewhat and not running it fully open). I don't want to burn the pump out. It's not hot or anything or else it would have shut off automatically.

I would be concerned too, with what you have there and highly suggest the following:
Valve from the sump to the pump - open it 100%, never, ever move it from full open unless servicing something downstream, at which time you'd be fully closing it for service:)
Then,
Install a valve (gate preferred) from the pump to the tank and use this to vary the return flow.
This is much better on the pump performance, and you'll get better control of your flow.
 
Oh hey Pat,

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you were ball valving off the inlet of your pump. You definitely do not want to do that.

Do as ribs say and get another ball valve from pump outlet to display. That will not effect your pump unless you really obstruct flow.

Actually, instead of getting a ball valve, I'd just get an eductor for your return and it pretty much acts as a restriction on overall flow, but will really boost up the flow in the tank! That is one of its advantages if you need to slow overall flow thru the system, but don't want to decrease and actually want to increase flow in the display.

The pump you have will not run hot b/c it is cooled by the water of your tank, thus doubling as a heater as well. Haha

Peace,
John H.
 
themoodys said:
Why not just T off the return back into the sump to bleed off some of the flow, while still running the pump fully open?
I tried that yesterday after I first turned the pump on. All it did was send most of the water back into the sump, and barely anything was going to the return.

Ribs...I guess I am going to have to put a valve in there. That was my original plan yetersay when I saw the problem, but then thought if I could divert some of the water that it might solve the problem, so I did the Tee with another valve.:(

John, I don't know what an educator is. Don't forget I am handicapped when it comes to plumbing. I can handle putting another valve in after the pump....but I don't know anything about educators. It's the first time I've heard that word since our school budget vote! :lol:
 
Can someone just tell me "why" it's not good to restrict the flow to the pump? I keep reading to always flow 100% to the pump and that's why I was concerned about it, but what's the difference if you're restricting the flow between the sump and pump or between pump and tank?
 
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Can someone just tell me "why" it's not good to restrict the flow to the pump? I keep reading to always flow 100% to the pump and that's why I was concerned about it, but what's the difference if you're restricting the flow between the sump and pump or between pump and tank?

I believe it's a function of the type of pumps we usually use. They should have as much unrestricted "head" of water on them, which is often the height of the sump return section, to prevent the intake (suction) of the pump from creating all sorts of turbulence and fluid reactions.
I do not know in the least bit about the specifics of this.

Here's a quote from an online source:
"As the liquid passes from the pump suction to the eye of the impeller, the velocity increases and the pressure decreases. There are also pressure losses due to shock and turbulence as the liquid strikes the impeller. The centrifugal force of the impeller vanes further increases the velocity and decreases the pressure of the liquid....." - here's where you want a nice unrestricted straight shot to the pump
and
"The consequences of prolonged conditions of cavitation and low flow operation can be disastrous for both the pump and the process.
so, I read that as if you want to prevent premature cavitation/erratic flow you'll want to have enough head and minimize restrictions (valves) or obstacles (90s).

With all that said, I have a big 90 right before the inlet of my pump :D. I couldn't avoid it.
 
Thanks Ribs....I understand it a little better now.
I put the valve in and it's working like a charm. Totally silent and I now have the pump 100% open from the sump to the pump. As I was adjusting it, my emergency overflows kicked in, so I know they work great! (I have 2 emergency overflows)
Thanks everyone for all your help. I really appreciate it! :)
 
ribs said:
Great Pat!
Keep an eye on it at first, I over/undershot my settings in the beginning.
It's been running great since I started it up without any more adjustments yet. I'll continue to keep an eye out on it for a while though.
This is the first time I've ever done any kind of plumbing. My husband usually does this type of stuff. He let me stew and figure it out all on my own this time.
P5125590.jpg
 
I was actually under the impression that you were he, my sincerest apologies!! :p
Looks like ya got it, nice work!
 
clean setup...very nice! I have my return tee'd goin back to the sump and to my fuge....The Tee to the sump was a waste due to the restriction my scwd made but oh well its there if I need it
 
I have a very similar set up for the returns but I'm still using the dursos. My tank has 1 built in overflow with 2 returns and 1 output.

I made the dursos myself and played with them until I had found the source of the noise from the durso. The trick I found was to use 1" thinwall pipe. On the T that you connect the elbow to, don't drill a hole below the elbow. This I found was the source of the noise from the durso. You should only have 3 holes at 1/2" dia. each with the top of the hole level with the bottom of the side pipe from the T. You should only drill a 1/8-3/16" hole in the cap at the top of the durso. Into that small hole I fitted a small hose barb which silenced the small hiss I was hearing.

With (2) 1" returns exiting the same overflow box and the plumbing below the tank slightly different as it makes it's way to the sump, it was obvious that the water flow through both pipes was not equal by observing the discharges in the sump. The pipe that was flowing more was making more noise. The obvious fix to this was to slow that flow down and the way to do that was to place a ball valve in line. In order to regulate and balance the flow through both pipes I placed a ball valve in line with both returns. By slowing the flow through both return pipes it was like hitting the mute button on the TV remote. The trick here was to watch the overflow box and start turning the ball valves closed while also keeping the water discharges equal. Once the overflow started to rise at the top I simply backed the valve off just slightly. Then let the tank flow stabilize and tweak it again. I found that by regulating (reducing) the rate at which the water exitted the tank from a freefalling rate to a stabilized balanced rate that the noise was all but gone.

My rio 17hf is pumping totally unrestricted via 1" ID nylon tubing = 3/4" OD where it connects to the stub pipe below the tank at the bulkhead. From there it's 3/4" pvc with 1 elbow where it enters the tank through the overflow box.

There is absolutely NO noise whatsoever from the overflow. NONE NADA ZIP!

The only noise I had then was a slight grumble from the 1" pipe as the water accumulated at the ball valves. My cure for that was simple. Either re-plumb with thickwall PVC or use pipe insulation. For about $5 I bought 2 eight foot pieces of pipe insulation and with a steak knife I cut and fitted the insulation over the pipes under the tank.

Of course as you continue to silence one part of the tank the other components start to speak up. The next noise maker was the sump where the water was exitting the discharge pipes. By placing a T at the end of the discharge pipes with a small standpipe above the water line the discharges were silenced.

Then the skimmer return was left. The water falling off the return pipe was splashing so I installed a 45 degree connector and a section of scrap pipe so the return water was directed just above the water level in the sump which stopped the splashing.

My tank is 95% SILENT during the day with only the slight harmonic humm of the 5 fans in the canopy and that is only evident if you stand near the tank during the day. At night all the fans are switched off via timers. I only run the fans during light operation.

At night when all is quiet and the daytime noise of life is gone I can still make out a slight amount of grumble from the return pipes. I attribute that to my choice of pipe insulation as I chose the thinner type. This week if I remember I will pick up some thicker insulation and redo the pipes. I may even pick up some acoustic padding and line the inside of my lower cabinet sidewalls. This should kill any and all remaining water noise as my house is 100% tile and tends to carry sound well throughout the house. Yet, even before I change the pipe insulation and add the acoustic padding I would say my tank is 97% silent. My wife says she can't hear anything as it is, I guess my hearing is slightly better.

:D
 
ribs said:
I was actually under the impression that you were he, my sincerest apologies!! :p
Looks like ya got it, nice work!
No need to apologize. I think because I've never had to do any kind of plumbing work before that it made it that much more difficult for me to understand it. I'm kind of proud of myself....I had no leaks! It doesn't look that horrible, and it works! That's more important than how it looks.
Now if dumbo would have checked the bulkheads originally, I wouldn't have had to pull out the plumbing for the drain and re-do it. I never gave it any thought, and once the water started going into the overflow, the drain bh was leaking. It didn't have any teflon tape on it, so I cut out the piping, and taped up the bh, and re-did it all. Then I saw the problem with too much flow, so tee'd it off and put a valve...but that didn't work either, so today I capped off the Tee, and put that valve in after the pump. Hours later it's still working like a charm.
I put my skimmer in the sump, and have some microbubbles, so I guess I need the pipes to slime up a bit and hopefully it will eradicate them.
I'm feeling confident enough now to get my LR next week!;)
 
surfjeepzx,
Way to go! Definately agree that after silencing one thing, another noise comes up that ya want to attend to :), and actually the challenges are part of why I've enjoyed the reef setup so far.

I think that that description of your setup would be great posted in a Durso thread, and you should post it in one of those! Very descriptive and informative. You'd find people there VERY interested in your rig, it sounds like you've nailed it!
It is sorta wasted in here tho, this is about using a completely different overflow method than yours, if you read the posts you'll see no-ones asking about Durso-mods.
This thread is about a valve and some plain pipe.
 
I understand that, the main difference being your emergency stand pipe and the lack of a durso tip on the top of your return pipe. Below the tank they are about the same.

I too tried removing the durso tip from my return pipes and fitted them with slottted ends, strainers, and a couple other rigs. Yet after a few minutes the slurp would return. So I had some extra T's and started playing with the placement of the holes etc.
Also, what I found helped, you can buy a slip coupler at Lowes or Home Depot that allows you to raise or lower the standpipes to dial in the pipe height.

I'll take some pics next week and post them so everyone can see my work of art.
 
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