ScottyDon't
New member
Hey drk70, how do you find your ev-180/mag 7 with regards to noise levels? Now that my overflow is quiet, my sedra pump is very loud... much louder than my mag 5 return pump.
NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!
- Thread starter Herbie
- Start date
deadmanh
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7248992#post7248992 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nathan
deadmanh,
I don't see a need for the ball valve on the brown pipe.
Also, are you having the orange line feed the skimmer? I don't know if this is a good idea since any pressure delta could dramatically affect your head pressure for the syphon. Better to leave the syphon pipe alone IMHO.
Other than that it looks good.
-Nathan
hmm that ball valve on the brown pipe ..... should i have that there to stop things/ unplug or replug plumbing IF needed?
now to that second part.. let me TRY and rephrase what you are asking to get a better understanding...
the Orange drain is the main drain used to feed directly to the skimmer. you are saying that by feeding directly into the skimmer the main drain will have differeing head preasure values causing the waterlevel within the overflow box to fluxuate?
to me a somewhat fluxuating waterlevel should be ok right? so long as that main drain is completely submergedit still wont draw in air and the flow/ pressure of the main drain should only be slightly affected because the height of the skimmer feed is stationary, and the flow within the skimmer will be somewhat stable........
basicaly im trying to feed the skimmer the dirtiest water and have a filter sock catch what the skimmer misses from its output.
Danny
other opinions would be great.... if you guys think that i shouldnt directly feed the skimmer, please more people let me know!
Nathan
Premium Member
The main drain is VERY sensitive to pressure differences. I would not advise using it for anything but a drain. However, you could always TRY it out and see how it works for you (it may be ok!), but if you are having a heck of a time adjusting your valve and never getting it right, then try without anything blocing the orange drain.
-Nathan
rdmpe
New member
I have a solution for your air valve whistle...
Get a 3" or so piece of 1" ID vinyl tubing. It should slide over the end of the air valve nicely.
About 1" from one end of the tubing, poke a couple of toothpicks through it forming a cross. You may have to use an ice pick or something to make holes in the tubing first, then slide the toothpicks in to make a cross. This will keep the cotton ball from clogging the air intake.
Now put a loosely fitting cotton ball into the end of tubing so that the toothpicks keep it from reaching the air valve.
This is a great DIY muffler that will pretty much make your air intake silent. I use it on my EV180/mag9.5 and it works great. It also filters dust out of the air intake. I change the cotton ball every once in a while when I notice it getting slightly dirty looking from dust.
Unfortunately I don't have a decent picture of it right now. I may be able to post one tonight...
Herbie
Yep,that one
O.K. .........I will see if I can help out somewhat here.
GMGQ - has the right idea for an external overflow modification.........nice job by the way! That works because the overflow has two drains. If you only had one drain, you would have to mod in another bulkhead on the bottom (if you had room, which most single external overflow boxes do not), or up higher on the side of the box.
Dandy7200 - I have looked at the picture of your lifereef box.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58279226@N00/135182171/
You have the holes drilled in the right spot, but the plumbing and from what I can tell you are using the main/emrgency drains backwards / wrong ??? Correct me if I am wrong. I think you are making it just too complicated. On the top hole you drilled, there is no need for all that plumbing/durso. Just a simple 90 degree elbow coming from the bulkhead pointing down towards your sump. The upper bulkhead is your emergency drain and the "factory" bottom drain is still your main drain. Your box looks almost exactly like the one that Jeff at Lifereef made for me and I have been using it for this method for a while now..........works perfect. I will see if I can post a picture in a little while.
"I am trying to figure out how to make that work as my main drain . So do I hang a HOB overflow off the back of my HOB overflow .".............Thats pretty funny, BTW....LOL. !!!
deadmanh - IMHO........ Nathan is right on this. I think this system is WAY to sensitive to be running through a skimmer. I think others have done it (szwab ?), but I dont think I would risk it. I would just use the Orange as your main drain with a GATE valve (A GATE VALVE is VERY important.......NOT a ball valve!), and the Brown as your emergency.......un- valved is fine. I dont think you need the valve on the blue either.
I would also question if an Ehiem 1250 is enough for a return pump ? I am running a Tunze Master recirc. Submersed pump 1073.030. It pumps from 0 - 800 gph. It has an ajustment built in so you can regulate the flow. Its small and QUIET. A perfect pump for a return if you ask me........BUT its not cheap, about $130.
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=TZ1711
For this system to work the quietest the main return should be underwater in your sump. Mine is underwater inside a filtersock. Also This system is sensitive to sump water level fluctations........so it would be best if the main return was in an area of the sump that is at constant water level. Like a divider or something, so the water is fluctuating in another part of the sump. Then your manual or even auto top off is not so critical, where it has to be perfect.
Hope I could help somewhat ..........
Later.............Herbie
GMGQ - has the right idea for an external overflow modification.........nice job by the way! That works because the overflow has two drains. If you only had one drain, you would have to mod in another bulkhead on the bottom (if you had room, which most single external overflow boxes do not), or up higher on the side of the box.
Dandy7200 - I have looked at the picture of your lifereef box.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58279226@N00/135182171/
You have the holes drilled in the right spot, but the plumbing and from what I can tell you are using the main/emrgency drains backwards / wrong ??? Correct me if I am wrong. I think you are making it just too complicated. On the top hole you drilled, there is no need for all that plumbing/durso. Just a simple 90 degree elbow coming from the bulkhead pointing down towards your sump. The upper bulkhead is your emergency drain and the "factory" bottom drain is still your main drain. Your box looks almost exactly like the one that Jeff at Lifereef made for me and I have been using it for this method for a while now..........works perfect. I will see if I can post a picture in a little while.
"I am trying to figure out how to make that work as my main drain . So do I hang a HOB overflow off the back of my HOB overflow .".............Thats pretty funny, BTW....LOL. !!!
deadmanh - IMHO........ Nathan is right on this. I think this system is WAY to sensitive to be running through a skimmer. I think others have done it (szwab ?), but I dont think I would risk it. I would just use the Orange as your main drain with a GATE valve (A GATE VALVE is VERY important.......NOT a ball valve!), and the Brown as your emergency.......un- valved is fine. I dont think you need the valve on the blue either.
I would also question if an Ehiem 1250 is enough for a return pump ? I am running a Tunze Master recirc. Submersed pump 1073.030. It pumps from 0 - 800 gph. It has an ajustment built in so you can regulate the flow. Its small and QUIET. A perfect pump for a return if you ask me........BUT its not cheap, about $130.
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=TZ1711
For this system to work the quietest the main return should be underwater in your sump. Mine is underwater inside a filtersock. Also This system is sensitive to sump water level fluctations........so it would be best if the main return was in an area of the sump that is at constant water level. Like a divider or something, so the water is fluctuating in another part of the sump. Then your manual or even auto top off is not so critical, where it has to be perfect.
Hope I could help somewhat ..........
Later.............Herbie
Herbie
Yep,that one
Here are a few quick pictures I snapped off.
The pics are in my gallery.........sorry for the quality. I was just trying to get them up here quick.
Note: All the pictures are with the tank/sump running at a flow of approx. 600 gph. Notice the lack of bubbles or turbulance. In the sump picture its hard to see the "emergency" overflow plumbing........but its there! I still have to install some bulkhead screens in the overflow, after I figure out the proper depth of the bottom stand pipe. I will prob. add a small piece of 1" pvc to raise the main drain a little so I wont have as much water going back down to the sump in the event of a power failure.
Custom Lifereef Overflow........Side view.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=167234&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500
Custom Lifreef Overflow........Top view.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=167235&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500
Here is a shot of the "buisness end"........under the cabinet. Sump, top-off,Phosban reactor, Tunze 9010 skimmer .etc.etc,etc..........
Its a 38 Gallon Oceanic..........undrilled, with a 5.5 gallon sump(for now.........working on a 10 gallon sump now).
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=167236&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500
Its always a "work in progress" !!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps...........
Later...........Herbie
The pics are in my gallery.........sorry for the quality. I was just trying to get them up here quick.
Note: All the pictures are with the tank/sump running at a flow of approx. 600 gph. Notice the lack of bubbles or turbulance. In the sump picture its hard to see the "emergency" overflow plumbing........but its there! I still have to install some bulkhead screens in the overflow, after I figure out the proper depth of the bottom stand pipe. I will prob. add a small piece of 1" pvc to raise the main drain a little so I wont have as much water going back down to the sump in the event of a power failure.
Custom Lifereef Overflow........Side view.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=167234&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500
Custom Lifreef Overflow........Top view.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=167235&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500
Here is a shot of the "buisness end"........under the cabinet. Sump, top-off,Phosban reactor, Tunze 9010 skimmer .etc.etc,etc..........
Its a 38 Gallon Oceanic..........undrilled, with a 5.5 gallon sump(for now.........working on a 10 gallon sump now).
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=167236&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500
Its always a "work in progress" !!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps...........
Later...........Herbie
Avast Marine
.Registered Member
OK this is exactly what I did. The reason you see the durso on that box is because it didn't work. I had it plumbed just like you and this is what happened: Started to restrict main drain, quiet pipes = good. Restricted a little more to test the emerg. drain and water in overflow did not rise but water in tank rises = bad. At no point in testing could I get the water to overflow out my emerg. without overflowing the tank. Thats when I figured out that the syphon will only pull as much as it can drain not as much as the pressure on the back end. This is not safe. Please try it and see if you get the same results. Someone convince me this can be done in a extermal overflow box! Thats why theres a durso in the hole I drilled (next best thing.) And I am planning on using the original hole for a water change drain.
Herbie
Yep,that one
dandy7200,
I dont know ???
Mine works fine.........I have tested it! If you look closely at the pictures, you can slightly notice a water line where the emergency bulk head starts flowing water. I have run it through the emergency drain for some time just to test it.
Something else is going on with yours. What pump are you using and what GPH are you pushing down the overflow??? How about the tank water level..........is the inner box postioned correctly ???
Maybe post some pictures of your set-up running. That may shed some light on whats going on. Our boxes are almost identical, so something is off.
All I can say is mine works fine........and the emerg. works fine also. It was VERY easy to set-up and required very little in the way of adjustment. Closed gate valve untill the desired water level in the overflow box, then adjust gate valve open slightly until water level stabilizes, maybe slightly closed again until its perfected.........thats it!
Trying to help..............Herbie
I dont know ???
Mine works fine.........I have tested it! If you look closely at the pictures, you can slightly notice a water line where the emergency bulk head starts flowing water. I have run it through the emergency drain for some time just to test it.
Something else is going on with yours. What pump are you using and what GPH are you pushing down the overflow??? How about the tank water level..........is the inner box postioned correctly ???
Maybe post some pictures of your set-up running. That may shed some light on whats going on. Our boxes are almost identical, so something is off.
All I can say is mine works fine........and the emerg. works fine also. It was VERY easy to set-up and required very little in the way of adjustment. Closed gate valve untill the desired water level in the overflow box, then adjust gate valve open slightly until water level stabilizes, maybe slightly closed again until its perfected.........thats it!
Trying to help..............Herbie
Avast Marine
.Registered Member
I appreciate the help I will get some more detailed pics on this forum of what is going on along with some measurements. I really want to make this work if I can.
Avast Marine
.Registered Member
I wonder if Jeff did any thing except put in an extra hole like increase box size or pipe length or inside riser size. Did he say he would have to do anything like that or just put in an extra bulkhead?
Herbie
Yep,that one
dandy7200,
Its a STANDARD Lifereef overflow siphon box. Its not a slimline. The only thing Jeff did was drill out and "glue" in a bulkhead up top on the side of the overflow box. Its the Same bulkhead that he used on the bottom with the only difference.......the bottom bulhead is 1" male thread and the top bulkhead is 1" female thread. Jeff included all fittings as well........standard 1" .
We did have a good talk on exactly where exactly to put the bulkhead.......but in the end Jeff said to just put it up high.
Note: I do remember Jeff saying that with his overflow boxes the outside box will always be slightly lower than the lip of the tank so the tank will never overflow........the box would.
Jeff thought the Emergency overflow bulkhead was a good idea. I wouldnt be suprised if he starts adding it in as an option on his boxes. I just dont think he would ever advocate dialing down the overflow so it becomes a silent siphon. He thought the emergency bulkhead was a good back-up if the main overflow ever blocked, because of a snail or something. At least you wouldnt have a flood.
I just cant see how your tank would overflow if your using the Lifreef box as it was intended. Did you raise the box higher than the tank rim ??? I am lost.......this has got to work for you. I will wait for some pictures.
Later.........Herbie
Its a STANDARD Lifereef overflow siphon box. Its not a slimline. The only thing Jeff did was drill out and "glue" in a bulkhead up top on the side of the overflow box. Its the Same bulkhead that he used on the bottom with the only difference.......the bottom bulhead is 1" male thread and the top bulkhead is 1" female thread. Jeff included all fittings as well........standard 1" .
We did have a good talk on exactly where exactly to put the bulkhead.......but in the end Jeff said to just put it up high.
Note: I do remember Jeff saying that with his overflow boxes the outside box will always be slightly lower than the lip of the tank so the tank will never overflow........the box would.
Jeff thought the Emergency overflow bulkhead was a good idea. I wouldnt be suprised if he starts adding it in as an option on his boxes. I just dont think he would ever advocate dialing down the overflow so it becomes a silent siphon. He thought the emergency bulkhead was a good back-up if the main overflow ever blocked, because of a snail or something. At least you wouldnt have a flood.
I just cant see how your tank would overflow if your using the Lifreef box as it was intended. Did you raise the box higher than the tank rim ??? I am lost.......this has got to work for you. I will wait for some pictures.
Later.........Herbie
Thank you Herbie for introducing us to such a great system. I have mine working for the last 5 months without an emergency drain.
I don't think one has to be afraid to try this system even if you don't have an extra hole in the box for an emergency drain, as long as you design the sump to accept all the flow from the main tank during power outage, and allow the pump chamber to run dry before the main tank can overflow.
From my experience, when the drain is properly screened to prevent large items from clogging it, there is no reason the system can post any danger even without an emergency drain. Clogging, if any, will be a very slow process and very visible in your sump level change, and you have ample time to notice the change and correct it.
Of course if you have an extra drain hole for emergency all the better, but I hope people who currently are contemplating this system but only has one drain and one return line not be deterred by the fear of some imaginary tank overflow risk with this system, as long as you don't hold me responsible for any problems that may occur
I don't think one has to be afraid to try this system even if you don't have an extra hole in the box for an emergency drain, as long as you design the sump to accept all the flow from the main tank during power outage, and allow the pump chamber to run dry before the main tank can overflow.
From my experience, when the drain is properly screened to prevent large items from clogging it, there is no reason the system can post any danger even without an emergency drain. Clogging, if any, will be a very slow process and very visible in your sump level change, and you have ample time to notice the change and correct it.
Of course if you have an extra drain hole for emergency all the better, but I hope people who currently are contemplating this system but only has one drain and one return line not be deterred by the fear of some imaginary tank overflow risk with this system, as long as you don't hold me responsible for any problems that may occur
Mike.B
New member
However though if you want your tank silent your overflow level has to be very high up with basically no water falling. So it wont take much water overflow your tank. jacmyoung is right though if you have tested it that your pump will run dry in the event of a clog great, just hope that you notice or are home so that you dont burn out your pump.
This system is great, but without an emergency I dont think its worth it.
This system is great, but without an emergency I dont think its worth it.
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