I'm thinking of making the drain pipe as tall as the overflow, then drilling 1/4" holes in the pipe as strainers for the drain. The main drain will have holes drilled below the water level and the backup will have holes drilled just above the desired water level. Anyone do this?
NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!
- Thread starter Herbie
- Start date
Edward Smith
Active member
I haven't found a need to?
Will this add an advantage to the present design?
Will this add an advantage to the present design?
Edward Smith
Active member
I am using this method and love it! My system is perfectly silent.
The primary submerged drain is approximatly half way up the megaflow.
The emergency drain is even with the water level in the display.
I keep the megflow water level about an inch or two below the display level. That way it skims without any noise.
The primary submerged drain is approximatly half way up the megaflow.
The emergency drain is even with the water level in the display.
I keep the megflow water level about an inch or two below the display level. That way it skims without any noise.
PowermanKW
New member
Nobody carries gate valves in my city. Plumbers, suply houses, spa/pool places, hardware stores. I ordered on line, or others have ordered from Ace hardware.
returnofsid
New member
WOW!! Thanks Herbie!!!
So far I'm on page 25, but need to ask a few questions about a tank I'm setting up, and modifying the Herbie Method a bit, in order to get more flow. I understand that this method is meant to make a quiet overflow system, and not to increase flow, but bare with me for a few minutes, please.
I'm in the process of setting up a 200 gallon deep dimension, with dual overflows. After bulkheads are installed, this will give me 4X1" lines through the bottom of the tank. In one overflow, I'd like to use both lines as full time drains. I'd accomplish this by having a open stand pipe, low in the overflow, and then a Durso stand pipe, just slightly higher. The Durso stand pipe would have an airline going from the top of it, to below the water line, to create a full vacuum. The straight stand pipe would have a gate valve, below the tank.
The remaining overflow would be set up as an actual Herbie Overflow, with a straight stand pipe, as primary drain, and an emergency stand pipe, for back up drainage. Again, the primary drain would have a gate valve, below the tank.
All 4 lines will drain, separately, into my skimmer section in my sump, with 1 1/2" rigid PVC OR Spa Flex.
I will be using an Dolphin Amp Master 4700/5300 for return. The return line will consist of a 2" diameter manifold, which reduces down to 4-6 3/4" returns. 2 of these returns will run 2 3/4" SeaSwirls and 2-4 returns will return over the back, through 3/4" penductors. Below the manifold, I will have a diversion line, with a gate valve, to divert excess flow back to the sump, if needed.
Does any of this sound feasible at all? My reasoning behind this is not only to get quiet overflow/sump conditions, but also to increase the amount of flow.
So far I'm on page 25, but need to ask a few questions about a tank I'm setting up, and modifying the Herbie Method a bit, in order to get more flow. I understand that this method is meant to make a quiet overflow system, and not to increase flow, but bare with me for a few minutes, please.
I'm in the process of setting up a 200 gallon deep dimension, with dual overflows. After bulkheads are installed, this will give me 4X1" lines through the bottom of the tank. In one overflow, I'd like to use both lines as full time drains. I'd accomplish this by having a open stand pipe, low in the overflow, and then a Durso stand pipe, just slightly higher. The Durso stand pipe would have an airline going from the top of it, to below the water line, to create a full vacuum. The straight stand pipe would have a gate valve, below the tank.
The remaining overflow would be set up as an actual Herbie Overflow, with a straight stand pipe, as primary drain, and an emergency stand pipe, for back up drainage. Again, the primary drain would have a gate valve, below the tank.
All 4 lines will drain, separately, into my skimmer section in my sump, with 1 1/2" rigid PVC OR Spa Flex.
I will be using an Dolphin Amp Master 4700/5300 for return. The return line will consist of a 2" diameter manifold, which reduces down to 4-6 3/4" returns. 2 of these returns will run 2 3/4" SeaSwirls and 2-4 returns will return over the back, through 3/4" penductors. Below the manifold, I will have a diversion line, with a gate valve, to divert excess flow back to the sump, if needed.
Does any of this sound feasible at all? My reasoning behind this is not only to get quiet overflow/sump conditions, but also to increase the amount of flow.
PowermanKW
New member
I assume the tank is drilled and you are just trying use what you have. It sounds rather complicated to me. There are others that use dual overflows. Seems to me it would be better to use both primaries tied together to maintain proper tank level. For emergency purpose I would thing two seperate line all the way to the sump.
I don't see the advantage of running a durso. I realize you want all 3 draining, but then your back up is not a back up because it can't handle all that flow if something goes wrong.
I can't remember what was best for dual overflows... tied together or seperate. you can size your pipe acordingly with one gate valve to flow two overflows. Seems it would be easier to control water lavel instead of having two to manage.
I don't see the advantage of running a durso. I realize you want all 3 draining, but then your back up is not a back up because it can't handle all that flow if something goes wrong.
I can't remember what was best for dual overflows... tied together or seperate. you can size your pipe acordingly with one gate valve to flow two overflows. Seems it would be easier to control water lavel instead of having two to manage.
returnofsid
New member
The reason I'm trying to do this is to get maximum flow. I already have the huge Dolphin pump and would like to try to figure out a way to use it...lol.
When we talk about the single emergency drain being needed and not handling the flow, that is assuming full blockage of 1 or more of the other drains.
With proper screening, I can see no way to get even close to partial blockage.
A couple of my concerns, after reading this entire thread, are that people with dual overflows seem to have more problems than people with single overflows. I have no idea why that is, but it seems to be a constant theme, in this thread.
Another concern is the constant fluctuation in water level, both in the overflows and in the sump. This would make it very difficult to implement an ATO system, that I do want to use.
When we talk about the single emergency drain being needed and not handling the flow, that is assuming full blockage of 1 or more of the other drains.
With proper screening, I can see no way to get even close to partial blockage.
A couple of my concerns, after reading this entire thread, are that people with dual overflows seem to have more problems than people with single overflows. I have no idea why that is, but it seems to be a constant theme, in this thread.
Another concern is the constant fluctuation in water level, both in the overflows and in the sump. This would make it very difficult to implement an ATO system, that I do want to use.
PowermanKW
New member
I can understand your thinking on the drains, I would just like "fool proof" in my emergency. Drains need to flow full return flows.
The water levels of duals seem to be the problem and fighting to get them right. One effects the others. That is why I don't see why the two do not use a common gate valve. Have you read any that use one common valve on dual overflows.
I don't have constant level issues in my sump. My skimmer needs constant level and so does Herbie. My skimmer section is baffled to provide constant level. My ATO is ran in my return section. Never had any issues at all.
The water levels of duals seem to be the problem and fighting to get them right. One effects the others. That is why I don't see why the two do not use a common gate valve. Have you read any that use one common valve on dual overflows.
I don't have constant level issues in my sump. My skimmer needs constant level and so does Herbie. My skimmer section is baffled to provide constant level. My ATO is ran in my return section. Never had any issues at all.
I'm going to set this up with a HOB dual overflow.
One question: does it matter where in line the gate valve is located?
Can it be right below the HOB drain, or would that mean there is noise from the water going down the pipe *after* the valve.
And should the drain pipe end above or below the water level in the sump?
One question: does it matter where in line the gate valve is located?
Can it be right below the HOB drain, or would that mean there is noise from the water going down the pipe *after* the valve.
And should the drain pipe end above or below the water level in the sump?
sfsuphysics
Active member
Wow over 5 years and only 38 pages? Something's wrong with this! 
Anyways, I have a question.
I decided to give this a try, initially started with two drains such that the one that I wanted to drain was a couple inches below the emergency drain, while this was fine and dandy, tuning it to stay working was a tad troublesome.
So I remove the pipe figure I'll cut a few inches off it, but then I stared inside the overflow and I wondered why I even need a pipe in there in the first place, all of a sudden I now have something like 20" of difference between the two drains so dialing it in isn't an issue, hell I can keep it as high as I want in fact (higher is better so I don't hear the water spilling over the overflow).
My question, is there a reason I would want a pipe in there at all? It seems to work without the pipe. The only thing I can think of is if there's a power outage more water would go into the sump this way. Which IMO isn't an issue simply because my sump has more than adequate capacity.
Here's a picture
Anyways, I have a question.
I decided to give this a try, initially started with two drains such that the one that I wanted to drain was a couple inches below the emergency drain, while this was fine and dandy, tuning it to stay working was a tad troublesome.
So I remove the pipe figure I'll cut a few inches off it, but then I stared inside the overflow and I wondered why I even need a pipe in there in the first place, all of a sudden I now have something like 20" of difference between the two drains so dialing it in isn't an issue, hell I can keep it as high as I want in fact (higher is better so I don't hear the water spilling over the overflow).
My question, is there a reason I would want a pipe in there at all? It seems to work without the pipe. The only thing I can think of is if there's a power outage more water would go into the sump this way. Which IMO isn't an issue simply because my sump has more than adequate capacity.
Here's a picture
Wow, it's been a long time since I've posted in this thread. My recommendation is to test various setups before glueing the pipe to see what works best for you.
When fully tuned-in, the pipes are supposed to be full of water. If you put the gate valve on the vertical pipe running down to your sump, it could "possibly" make it more difficult for your system to be tuned-in and cause water noise within the pipes. If possible, I'd try to put the gate valve on a horizontal pipe.
I put my drain pipe below the water. If you put it above, it's going to cause a lot of noise.
PowermanKW
New member
I don't see what it would hurt, except like you say. You will drain the whole box every time the pump is off. What would be the point of that?
sfsuphysics
Active member
Well there's no point in having the overflow box drain, that's simply a side-effect. Just seems with more "wiggle room" it'll work better, but then again my mind is still trying to wrap around the mechanics of what could cause the water head pressure to oscillate.
PowermanKW
New member
Just remember, things WILL get in the overflow from time to time. Screens are a must. At least keep things from getting in there.
I could see the bulkhead flowing more if you need it without a stand pipe. But if you don't need the flow, meh.
As far as the oscillation in head... The head in the overflow, determines flow rate thought the gate valve. It is a balance. Yet in the sump, the height of the sump level determines it's head pressure and provides back pressure to the overflow. So that is a balancing act too.
There will be minor variations between sump level and overflow level. Every now and then I need to adjust, but not often and not much. Most time I just let it do it thing, and I also have a baffle in my sump that gives me a constant level there too. The only real variation in my system is algae clogging the overflow grate and causing a change in things.
sfsuphysics
Active member
Gotcha.
Yeah, I figured that'd be an issue as the sump level gets lower, then it causes more head pressure on the return pump (slower flow) slower flow changes the dynamics of what's going on in the overflow box, etc.
Hmm maybe I'll just cut a piece of pipe 6 inches shorter and be done with it.
Also screens? really? The overflow has teeth, so that's a screen in and of itself. Teeth are too small for any fish or snail (other than babies) to get in there, I would think screens on the pipes would simply cause it to clog up even faster.
Yeah, I figured that'd be an issue as the sump level gets lower, then it causes more head pressure on the return pump (slower flow) slower flow changes the dynamics of what's going on in the overflow box, etc.
Hmm maybe I'll just cut a piece of pipe 6 inches shorter and be done with it.
Also screens? really? The overflow has teeth, so that's a screen in and of itself. Teeth are too small for any fish or snail (other than babies) to get in there, I would think screens on the pipes would simply cause it to clog up even faster.
PowermanKW
New member
That's true. I did get a snail through my valve, but the knock outs for the plumbing are gone to. I had to close them up.
dcdicello
New member
Viva la Herbie!!
I always lerk and usually never post, but after the extreme difference 1 hour made I had to make an exception.
I have a 40g acrylic with a custom made acrylic hang-on-back weir. I started out with a Durso and found it extremely easy to dial in (with the help of a toothpick). But the noise was overwhelming.
So tonight I had to do something about it, since I already had the Durso I replaced the cap to make it a full siphon, added a ball valve that I had lying around. Yoreeka!
I can finally hear myself think!
I always lerk and usually never post, but after the extreme difference 1 hour made I had to make an exception.
I have a 40g acrylic with a custom made acrylic hang-on-back weir. I started out with a Durso and found it extremely easy to dial in (with the help of a toothpick). But the noise was overwhelming.
So tonight I had to do something about it, since I already had the Durso I replaced the cap to make it a full siphon, added a ball valve that I had lying around. Yoreeka!
I can finally hear myself think!
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