NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[usctrack]

I submerge my drain into the water in the sump so I don't hear any splashes.

 

[hawkinsrgk]

The tank is 180G (72 x 24 x 24) with 2 megaflow overflows. The standard 1 inch drain and .75 inch return. I have drilled the back of the tank to have 2 additional bulkheads that would be used as a Herbie overflow. One for each overflow. The standard 1 inch drain would be the emergency drain and the .75 inch return would be the same. So the tank now has 6 total holes.

What are your thoughts on connecting the two 1 inch Herbie overflows after the gate valves together to a 1.5 inch PVC pipe that would then run to the sump? The sump would then have 1 1.5 inch drain instead of 2 1 inch drains.

I have read most of the posts in this thread trying to find an answer. Mostly this has been addressed with the gate valve after the T, but I'm trying to do 2 gate valves before the T

Thanks for the help

 

[Twin Reefs]

The tank is 180G (72 x 24 x 24) with 2 megaflow overflows. The standard 1 inch drain and .75 inch return. I have drilled the back of the tank to have 2 additional bulkheads that would be used as a Herbie overflow. One for each overflow. The standard 1 inch drain would be the emergency drain and the .75 inch return would be the same. So the tank now has 6 total holes.

What are your thoughts on connecting the two 1 inch Herbie overflows after the gate valves together to a 1.5 inch PVC pipe that would then run to the sump? The sump would then have 1 1.5 inch drain instead of 2 1 inch drains.

I have read most of the posts in this thread trying to find an answer. Mostly this has been addressed with the gate valve after the T, but I'm trying to do 2 gate valves before the T

Thanks for the help

My understanding is that you should keep the drain lines separate. That way in case there is any blockage on the main line, the emergency drain kicks in. If you combine the 2 overflow drains into one pipe, it may create more turbulence and they may affect each other in how they drain.

I hope this helps. I'm sure others who have tried to connect this way may chime in with their experiences.

Good luck!

 

[Haxer]

My understanding is that you should keep the drain lines separate. That way in case there is any blockage on the main line, the emergency drain kicks in. If you combine the 2 overflow drains into one pipe, it may create more turbulence and they may affect each other in how they drain.

I hope this helps. I'm sure others who have tried to connect this way may chime in with their experiences.

Good luck!

I have my 220 set up this way. You need to keep the emergency drains seperate from the mains. I have both of my emergency t'd together before they enter the sump and both of my mains t'd together before my gate valve and then to my sump. I have my 2 mains as 1" running to a 2" gate and down pipe to the sump. I also have the 3/4 emerg drains coming together in a 1.5" T and down pipe entering the sump just above the water line. That way if the emergency drains kick in, I know something is up.

I will post pictures later if I get a chance. I thought about the 2 gate valves on the mains, but it was discussed before that this was a nightmare to regulate. It will work with uneven lenghts of pipe, but if the span of horizontal pipe from each main is equal before the gate it makes tuning eaiser. Mine are unequal at the moment, and have been running for 2 years like this. All that happens is that the water level in the overflows are diffrent. I plan to chnage my sump plumbing around though and I will make them equal in length.

 

[hawkinsrgk]

Thanks guys for you help

 

[Linkfalcon]

Any one have any pic of this setup on a reef ready tank my tank has to 1 inch drains and 2 3/4 returns I would love to do this but I do not want to drill any more holes

 

[neurosis05]

I'm sure this info is on this thread somewhere but I thought I'd ask while I dug through the 60 some pages.
I'm have a 90 gal DT with a 30 gal basement sump. All the lines are 1.5". I'm having troubles adjusting the 1.5" gate valve on the main drain to the proper flow. The emergency drain is just below the overflow mark in my corner flow, and the main drain is about 6" below that. I can only get the water level to stay at either just above the emergency drain which causes noise due to trickle, or about 2.5" below is which also causes noise due to water falling 3 inches into the cornerflow. I'd like to get the water level about a .5" below the emergency drain but can't get it fine tuned.
I tried smaller pvc for the main drain (1" and 1.25") thinking that it would reduce the amount of water being drained, but no dice.
If I go with a smaller valve would I be able to control the amount of water being drained more accurately?
Thanks

 

[Yose]

123 Please delete this post.

 

[lt.smash]

Not sure what I did, but I just plumbed my system yesterday and it ran perfect overnight. I tried to add rubber feet to my pump this AM to dampen the vibrations and so I had to disassemble some piping via the unions.

Anyhow hooked it all back the same way and turned on the pump and now my main drain cannot keep up even with the gate value wide open. This happened to me during the initial build , but I suppose I got lucky when I fixed it.

I am using flex vinyl for the drains and pvc for the supply and mag 9.5 pump with 3/4 inch hoses/pipes.

My gate valve last night was closed just a bit while keeping the emergency drain dry, the water level perfect, and absolutely no noise.

Last night, I could turn on / off the pump and the drains worked perfect. So, what is the correct way to fix this herbie style issue?

1200 gph overflow box
2 x 3/4 bulkheads drain 1 x 3/4 supply drain
Mag 9.5
3/4 pipe all around

Sump 20g long (36 x 12 x 12) water level about in inches below the top when pump is off
Main Drain is about 2 inches under water level bottom
Emergency Drain is out of the water (while I figure this out)

Pictures here (http://graysonreef.blogspot.com)

 

[Mudbeaver]

Yep thats the one

Yep thats the one

That what my Herbie will look like when he's all dressed up, the bottom will of course be closed this is just an example i took from a german tank

Good site

http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

 

[dcampbell]

I have a idea that I'm not sure is valid, but I'm going to put it out there anyway, lol. I Have only read to page 22 so far and It seems a lot of larger tanks are having trouble regulating the valve to get a steady overflow . When they wake up the next morning they hear the pump gurgling because of a dry pump section. Would the electricity be stronger throughout the night cause the pump to run more efficiently thus more gph ? On a smaller pump that uses less power, the fluctuation would be so small it wouldn't be noticeable, but a larger pump would pump maybe even 2% more. On a system that runs such close tolerances ,after a few hours overflow is higher. some have even said it fluctuates between night and day . ahh well just a thought, I threw out there. back to reading !

 

[MJAnderson]

After dealing with this for a year I'm getting ready to rip this out. Before I do I wonder if anyone can help. I have a 120 AGA with the dual overflows that go to a basement sump. I can dial in the right level but it only stays quiet until the weather changes --- pressure changes are killing this setup. We use it like a weather station depending it the water is going into the emergency or gurgling. I run two gate valves under the aquarium to regulate. Any solutions?

 

[MrSandman]

I've got a problem that i've been searching all over the internet for but with no definitive answers. I'm sure this happens often and i'm hoping someone who has actually tried it with long-term success can chime in. I'm planning to run a Herbie where the main drain needs to be split between the skimmer chamber and the refugium chamber of my sump. Some people say don't do it and it won't work right. Others say that it worked fine. Some questions:

-Who has done this?
-At what point in the main drain did you place the tee? After the gate valve or before?
-Is the plumbing the same diameter before and after the tee?
-One of the legs off the tee needs to have a ball valve to control the flow. Did you put the valve on the fuge side or the skimmer side?
-Is the water height of the 2 chambers (skimmer and fuge) the same level?
-When you turn off the return pump and turn it back on again, are there any issues with the Herbie working correctly? Does it take a long time to stabilize?
-Do you have picture of how you plumbed it?

I'm about to start plumbing on my new tank and want to make sure i get this right the 1st time.

 

[Mudbeaver]

After dealing with this for a year I'm getting ready to rip this out. Before I do I wonder if anyone can help. I have a 120 AGA with the dual overflows that go to a basement sump. I can dial in the right level but it only stays quiet until the weather changes --- pressure changes are killing this setup. We use it like a weather station depending it the water is going into the emergency or gurgling. I run two gate valves under the aquarium to regulate. Any solutions?

Do you have a picture of your set up how can you have water going down you emergency at the same time as your primary? Your primary is suppose to be at least 5-6 ich under water, for a herbie

Never use a ball valve to control flow, a ball valve are best to open and close flow. To control a flow GATE VALVES such as this one that you can control in increments very slowly, and that can be cleaned.

 

[SGT_York]

I have a AGA 120 dual overflows and have found a good solution to incorporate the herbie.

The issue as many have discussed is getting the two overflows to remain constant regardless of pressure. I had no luck with the two gate valves, they required monthly adjustments between the weather and the routine buildup on the strainers.

You need to join the two overflows together and use one gate valve after the T. I ran one 3/4 and one 1" into a 1.5" elbow though a 1.5" horizontal pipe with a T then a 1.5" gate going down into the sump. The remining 1" is a durso pipe that has minimum flow. I run a panworld 200 at 6' headloss, you may need a 2" pipe if you run more flow.

The large horizontal pipe is what steadies both overflows and eliminates the balancing act. I don't think it will work without the two 90 turn into a T Think of a Y shape. If you use a T and one 90 Think of a 4 shape (not this font, or an upside down lower case h) the T siphon will do most of the draining without two 90's.

I tried not using the durso the first time around but needed to set the herbie low so there was an occasional cascading sound coming from the overflow. Adding the durso gave me a standard level and a direct supply to the refugium. Both of my siphons have 1.5" strainers.

The problem with running two valves is they affect the other so any slight change in one ofsets the other. If you have the siphons 6" or more below the display water level I think you'd be fine but you get the cascading waterfall sound.

my sump skimmer -> ref -> return decreases by a few inches between skimmer/refg.
I wouldn't recommend splitting the siphon after the gate valve but you could if you kept 1.5" on both outlets and a ball valve on the vertical shaft.

My remaining 3/4" is a dry emergency that is not used. Could be used as a return if you don't want plumbing behind your tank.

Sorry pictures are too piecemeal to be worthwile as the wall is in the way.
All that said, my next tank will be a C2C BA system!

 

[Mudbeaver]

For the dual or herbie why go mad for a trickle!

This is the herbie in desing;

This is my solution

I don't understand the concept of calling the emergency pipe if your going to allow a trickle to harass you day and night at the slightest water level variation. It makes no sense to me. An emergency, is an EMERGENCY 4 foot waves..... that why i've modify the emergency pipe's height to be at least 1/4" higher than the water level.

-If your main pipe gets block;

1- The level will , and has to rise 1/4" before it dumps in the "EMERGENCY" pipe.

2- You'll notice it when you come back from work or wake up in the morning. And say Gosh whats wrong with the main drain, you'll know instantly.

3- Nothing will die from a 1/4" of extra water in the tank , and after deblocking the main pipe everything will come back to normal.

No need to mega modify any existing plumbing with all kinds of silencers, only 1/4" more for the emergency pipe that is suppose to used only for emergency, not for regulating extra spit from wavemakers, or wheater pressures. Just my solution, for a quiet night sleep . Hope it helps.

 

[MJAnderson]

Sgt York,

First, C2C = Coast to Coast. What's BA? Thanks for the advice. I actually bought a 2" gate to do just that but then someone told me they won't balance the overflows and it won't work.

Anyone know if it's better to put the gate just below the "T" or should I put it in the basement?

Mudbeaver,

I keep my emergency about 1" out of the water. But believe it or not the level fluctuates enough to raise up 1". I probably need to lower the submerged pipe a bit as I think I only have about 4-5" between the two. I was concerned about my sump overflowing as my basement set up has quite a bit of water in the pipes that will drain to the sump in a power outage.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Sgt York,

First, C2C = Coast to Coast. What's BA? Thanks for the advice. I actually bought a 2" gate to do just that but then someone told me they won't balance the overflows and it won't work.

Anyone know if it's better to put the gate just below the "T" or should I put it in the basement?

1" all that. you have wavemakers? Wow don't know what to tell ya.

 

[SGT_York]

Mud, I agree my emergency is supposed to let me know there is a problem by sound. It starts when the water in the Display raises not at all with the level of water in the overflow. Anderson the 1" is probably your overflow water level not display level right?

MJ Anderson, BA is my version of Bean Animal.

Using a BA system it matters where the gate is placed in regards to starting the siphon. A herbie is just a drain there is no siphoning so it really doesn't matter, you'll probably have an easier time with it being close to the tank so you can make adjustments without going up and down the stairs.

As of the T I dont' think it works using a T and a 90 but two 90's and a T below the tank work fine. It does take longer to get the air out and quite the sump, but no difference in draining the water. It also won't work if you don't increase the horizontal pipe before the T to accomodate one pipe draining faster than the other. If the water flow increases in one of the overflows gravity will pull it down faster than the other so you won't notice a difference.

I like the BA system better becasue I hate the standard overflows my anemone keeps getting sucked into the holes in the middle of the tank. It's a condy!!!

Don't try this method if you are running an acutal siphon. Meaning you need the water pressure to lift water up then flow down like BA's system.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Mud, I agree my emergency is supposed to let me know there is a problem by sound. It starts when the water in the Display raises not at all with the level of water in the overflow. Anderson the 1" is probably your overflow water level not display level right?

MJ Anderson, BA is my version of Bean Animal.

Using a BA system it matters where the gate is placed in regards to starting the siphon. A herbie is just a drain there is no siphoning so it really doesn't matter, you'll probably have an easier time with it being close to the tank so you can make adjustments without going up and down the stairs.

As of the T I dont' think it works using a T and a 90 but two 90's and a T below the tank work fine. It does take longer to get the air out and quite the sump, but no difference in draining the water. It also won't work if you don't increase the horizontal pipe before the T to accomodate one pipe draining faster than the other. If the water flow increases in one of the overflows gravity will pull it down faster than the other so you won't notice a difference.

I like the BA system better becasue I hate the standard overflows my anemone keeps getting sucked into the holes in the middle of the tank. It's a condy!!!

Don't try this method if you are running an acutal siphon. Meaning you need the water pressure to lift water up then flow down like BA's system.

I'm not sure what causes so much fluctuation in his water levels, i've never had that in my tank. So my main drain 6" under water , my primary would be the drain with the only gate valve for ajusting the flow to create a syphon and stop the noise. The second pipe is suppose to be an emergency drain, not an ajusting drain . It should be well above the water line and when the water rise in consequence with a blocquage of the main drain act as the EMERGENCY DRAIN and warns you that something is wrong, and not be part of every day operation, so no valve there other than a shut OFF . And if you mix up two system of drain no wonder your going crazy, you have to choose one system, BA, Herbie , or an other that you like and stick to the design and not mix and match or your plumbing will be insane. Keep it simple......