NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[rdmpe]

...the system is somewhat self correcting due to the ability to increase the head pressure on the intake and thus compensate (to a point)...

My Project Manager is going to be thrilled with this setup. Noise was my biggest worry. Now the skimmer will probably be the loudest part of the setup...

I kept thinking to my self, how can you keep from running your pump dry, now I see what happens. I would not have expected the system to be quite that sensitive to head pressure, but I guess it is! Very nice.

 

[rogert]

When this thread first started I thought this would be the answer to my noise problems, and it was...But several other critical issues popped up. After several weeks of constant adjustment I am unable to keep the water level in the overflows at a constant level and therefore changing the water level in the sump and therefor changing the water level in my skimmer because of the change in backpressure therfore making it impossible to set my skimmer correctly{I have had two overflows of my skimmer from wet skimming because the water level in my sump went up. As time went by the water level in the overflows became less predictable probably because of algae buildup or whatever. I have scrapped the idea.

 

[Marshall]

I think everyone should consider using gate valves if keeping it level is a real problem for people.

 

[javajaws]

I have some minor inconsistencies in overflow water level but I think its only because I use a filter sock on the drain. As the filter sock gets dirty it changes the back pressure slightly. Not a big problem for me because I'll only be using a filter sock for a month or two until my rock (new tank) stops shedding stuff like crazy.

I don't have skimmer problems because I have an external skimmer.

rogert, you would have better luck if you ran your skimmer in a sump compartment that had a fixed water level. Placing it in the variable level compartment (where the pump return is) will always be somewhat inconsistent (evaporation, turning return pump off, etc.).

 

[KAiNE]

I use this method as well. I have 2 overflows (1.5"). I get fluctualtion in the height of the water in the overflowes due to dirty filter socks and a very slight amount due to (only thing i can think of) atmospheric pressure. Take recently, we have had a substantial low come through (better known as Katrina) and my overflowes rose about 1.5"'s in height. This is just a guess to the cause I am by no means knowlegable about these things but it does make since.

I flow about 2000gph through this into a 30gal sump. I use an auto topoff. I was concered that this amount of flux would screw up my topoff system. It does flux it abit but i cant tell a difference in salinity due to it. My total water volume is about 250gal so between 1-2gal flux doesnt seem to hurt.

 

[Beenalongtime79]

That's a teeny tiny sump for such a large tank. How's your refugium fit into all of this?

Peace,
John H.

 

[Beenalongtime79]

This system is sooooo easy if you follow the rules. If you can't get it to work, then you aren't following them. I'm sorry if that is brutal, but it is that simple.

Peace,
John H.

 

[patsan]

This system is sooooo easy if you follow the rules. If you can't get it to work, then you aren't following them. I'm sorry if that is brutal, but it is that simple.
Peace,
John H.

I agree. Mine has worked flawlessly from day one.

 

[KAiNE]

Yes... i know... its small! but i had to deal with the space i had at the time. I have since made the backside room into the "fish room" where the refugium (60g), skimmer and all pumps are located. I did have a smaller fuge which is why the sump is smaller. I plan on increasing sump size as some point but its working so no complaints!

BTW... if it wasnt for this method, there would be no way to eliminate micro bubbles and noise since the sump is small and the flow is high.

 

[KAiNE]

oops... i also miss stated my flow rate. According to a head loss calc, i flow about 2750gph. (3000gph pump)

This method works!

 

[mc-cro]

I have to agree, I finally scrapped mine as well, after using it for about 7months, I just could not get the overflow to stabilize. The only thing I could pinpoint was the atmoshpheric pressure. I checked pump outputs, installed gate valves, drain line submerged, above water, regardless, it would not stay constant.

the system works well on smaller setups, however, I think with large turnover rates, the small fluxes in atmospheric pressure combined with the long drain (appr30+foot) caused major fluctuations that could not be tolerated.

 

[kstuart]

So could someone post a diagram of how to plumb a tank this way? A picture would really simplify this for me and probably others

 

[KAiNE]

Basicly its simple. Put a gate valve on your drain. Throttle the drain until you get a "controlled siphon" thereby eliminating air in the drain.

MAKE SURE you have another method to drain should water rise too high or your primary drain clogs.

My wife (who knows nothing about plumbing) asked me about 6 months before i read this post if i could throttle the drain to match what came in to eliminate the air/noise. I told her there was no way to match it. I didnt realize that water pressure/depth would equalize it.

 

[drk70]

Save yourself some trouble and make sure you use a gate valve and not a ball valve like you can get at Lowes or Home Depot. The ball valves are difficult to adjust properly and you will have to make very small adjustment in the beginning. Here is a place online where you can get PVC gate valves https://www.savko.com/partlist.asp?pgid=1.

BTW, I have had my tank running with this system for about 6 months with no noise from the plumbing what so ever.

 

[rdmpe]

I'll be using this system to do my tank but I may have a potential problem. I will have a flow switching device on my return pump, and will also be using penductors. So when the flow is switching from one pipe to the other, both are open for about 20 seconds. While both are open, the flow rate from the sump will increase from approx. 13 gpm to more like 16 gpm. I have a feeling that this will mess things up a bit, but not sure. Worst case may be that it will cause my "emergency drain" to kick in a bit. I'm still working on putting the plumbing together, so will not be able to test if for a few more weeks. My pump will not be here till next Wed. I'll post once I have it going.

Here's some info on my plumbing plans... feedback welcome of course.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5480028#post5480028

 

[RichConley]

surfjeepzx,
Way to go! Definately agree that after silencing one thing, another noise comes up that ya want to attend to , and actually the challenges are part of why I've enjoyed the reef setup so far.

I think that that description of your setup would be great posted in a Durso thread, and you should post it in one of those! Very descriptive and informative. You'd find people there VERY interested in your rig, it sounds like you've nailed it!
It is sorta wasted in here tho, this is about using a completely different overflow method than yours, if you read the posts you'll see no-ones asking about Durso-mods.
This thread is about a valve and some plain pipe.

If you think about it, its doing exactly the same thing as a properly set up durso. You've got a wider pipe(your whole overflow) above a bulkhead and are creating a water column. You've made the bulkhead (valve) the narrowest point, so its the bottom of hte water column. Because the water column is deep, theres no way for air to get to the bulkhead, so your pipes have no air in them.

You've made a durso, you're just using the entire overflow as a standpipe.

People get too concentrated on the elbows and Ts to think about how a durso actually works.

 

[Oskie]

Herbie,
Your a genius!! You saved my butt on the noise issue. The wife was ready to shoot me.

Thanks Man
Oskie

 

[aqua_obs]

Okay,
Maybe its in this thread, but I haven't read it. I want to combine the regular drain with the emergency drain and run them down the same pipe to the sump. I have to cut holes and I'd just as soon have only one pipe going through the wall. Will the combining of the 2 pipes work correctly or will the venting from the 2nd pipe cause a problem noise problem? My gate valve is before the emergency over flow pipe joins the second pipe. Maybe if I turn over the emergency drain back into the over flow water, but set the overflow level in the emergency drain so it isn't so high?

tia

 

[drock59]

see page ten

 

[aqua_obs]

I'm not certain if I missed it again.... I saw the single overflow design, but mine isn't quite the same. Hopefully this picture will make it more clear what I'm asking: