NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[GMGQ]

Update

Update

Here are some pics of how I implimented Herbie's technique. Yesterday the level in my overflow box went up to the top of the backup drain. So I'm still getting some fluctuations. It's so hard to adust, because just opening or closing either gate valve by a TWINGE makes a difference.

Overflow Box - Drain (with rolled Gutterguard Screen):

Overflow Box - Backup Drain:

- Optimally I'd like the level to stay at the bottom line (that way I get good surface skimming from the intake of the overflow box). The top line marks off where the backup drain would kick in.

Overflow Drain - Gate Valve to Choke Flow Rate:

 

[BeanAnimal]

It is hard to "adjust" becuase the setup is unstable. That is why the emergency drain is needed. Any slight change in flow will throw the system out of balance.

The change in flow can be atributed to just about anything... water temperature, barometric pressure, water parameters, power fluctuations, slime and algea, snails, dertritus, splashing fish, air bubbles....

There are just way to many variables for anybody to claim that such a system is "stable". However it is totaly usable if the emergency drain is implemented and can handle the flow in the event of system imbalance.

Bean

 

[jacmyoung]

I don't think this system is working if you constantly are in need of the backup drain to kick in.

My previous tank could not work with such system at all, water level never could stabilize for long, my current system works so well I haven't had any issue yet, and I don't have a backup drain. I am not losing any sleep either because my tank will never overflow and the drain is now silent.

If my 5-year old pump burns out due to clogging, I have a new backup pump eager to take its place. But who knows, one of these days the balance can be lost and my pump can run dry all the time without a backup drain, if that happens, I will just have to return to the standard siphon drain, and lose sleep again because of the bubbly noise.

 

[Beenalongtime79]

My current system is pretty darn stable, my emergency drain has only been used once in the 1.5 years that it has been setup. The one problem that you have in your setup is that you are using one of the slice gate valves rather than the gate valves where you actually have a valve that you turn multiple times to get nice subtle adjustments.

Peace,
John H.

 

[BeanAnimal]

As I mentioned there are a whole host of variables that effect the stability of the system. The plumbing size and back pressure are likely big contributors. You may want to play with how deep (or if at all) your returns are submerged into the sump. Variables variables....

Bean

 

[johnnstacy]

This system has worked well for me on my AGA 150. I used both overflows as drains. 2 Main drains and 2 emergency drains. Truly, there is no way, other then Hurricane Katrina that could clog that overflow to the point of flooding. First, I use a submerged 1" pipe with an 8" screen on it. What is in your tank that can competely cover about 16" square inches of surface area which is what it would take to completely stop my submerged pipe. Okay, so let's assume that.......all the skin came off my fish at once and wrapped itself around the drain pipe. The water begins to rise. It now flows into a another drain pipe that has a screen on it. This backup drain has no valve on it. It's free flowing. It actually has even less restricting it then the submerged pipe since the submerged pipe has a gate valve on it. How are you going to ever flood in this system? How?
There is one important piece to this system. You must make sure that your overflow is designed with enough room to handle the water in the overflow and pipes in the event of an outage. My sump is located in my basement. That is a water. My built my sump to accommodate it.
In conclusion, I love this system. I have thought it was very well thought out and the redundancy is priceless. I have since had a 180 starphire tank built with an external overflow and guess what overflow system I use? Yup. The same exact one.

 

[funkyman]

Ditti johnnstacy.

I use it on my 120 AGA MT with a 40 gallon sump. One of the biggest worries I had about a return pump and a sump (this is my first sump system) was an overflow (of the tank / sump). While testing the system in the gagage, I deliberately blocked off both of the primary returns. The emergency drains took over without breaking a sweat. The peace of mind is priceless.

I have enough room in my sump to accomodate any water that would drain down to my siphon break points in a power outage, and that includes the worst case of all the water in both overflows.

The complete silence blows me away as well.

Does anyone else have to re-tune their returns after re-starting the return pump, say after a feeding? Sometimes after a restart I'll either have a trickle of water coming out of the emergency drains, or small bursts of bubbles out of the regular returns. All it takes is a tiny gate valve adjustment in either direction (which I don't have a problem with at all), but I just want to know if anyone else has come across this.

 

[rdmpe]

I haven't had mine set up for a long period of time yet, but when I did have it running I did a lot of testing of power outages and clogged main drain to make sure it wouldn't flood. I did find that when I had the sump pump off and then turned it back on, the water level in the overflow chamber seemed to stabilize at a lower point than it originally was at (I like it to be up high). But I didn't leave it running for a long time so I don't know if it eventually would have come back near the original level or not.

I think some of it has to do with the air in the drain line UNDER the gate valve. I think that depending on where your gate valve is and your pipe sized etc. there may be air in the pipe beyond the gate valve. I think the water coming down the pipe eventually manages to purge the air out of this length of pipe in the form of bubbles coming out the end in the sump. This process may have some effect on the balancing process of the system when the sump pump is restarted.

Of course, as beananimal says - there are a lot of variables that impact this system.

Gary - I think you'd find that if you replace that knife style gate valve with this type it would be much easier to dial in

 

[us2000ua]

I'm still having hard time to adjust this system. I have 200G two 1" overflows, gate valves, use two 3/4" as emergency. Level slowly going up or down over night or day. Are you guys adjust your system often?

 

[johns]

Are these gate valves like a 'union' valve? I'm familiar with the true union ball valves and it makes it easy to shut the valve and unscrew the plumbing easily. Does anything like this exist for the gate valves?

 

[drk70]

I have had my tank set up this way for about 7 months. No problems and rarely ever have to adjust anything. Yes the level in my overflow does fluctuate with evaporation but never to the point it makes alot of noise. When I top off or do water changes, yes the level in the overflow does move but I let it set for alittle while and it usually adjusts itself back to normal.

Get gate valves and not ball valves. Ball valves are too tough to adjust in the small amounts required for this system.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It would as easy to simply attach a union to both sides of the valve is no "true union" gate valves are availalbe.

http://www.dafehr.com/Valterra/vpiothervalve.htm
http://www.valterra.com/Ind/poolspa.htm (better photos of same valves)

 

[johns]

Do most people here attach these using unions? If not, what do you do if you have to do maintanence? You would have to remove the whole assembly at the bulkhead, right?

 

[drk70]

I use clear tubing from the tank bulkhead down. I just threaded in some barb fittings to each side of the gate valve. If I need to take it apart I can just pull it apart.

 

[johns]

drk70-

good point. you mean clear flex tubing, right? Is it 1"?

 

[funkyman]

My gates are glued in. I have no intention on any major renovations under the tank.

One other thing I did was use 1" pvc for the 3/4" emergency returns both above the bulkheads, and under the tank. A simple reducer was all that was needed to get from the 3/4" to 1". I realize above the 3/4" bulkhead will still dictate the flow, but I figured the 1" riser would increase the head pressure. Having 1" under the tank will obviuosly help speeds things up, and was needed for the gate valves anyway.

I figured every little bit would help.

 

[drk70]

drk70-

good point. you mean clear flex tubing, right? Is it 1"?

Yes, clear flex tubing and yes I think I use 1". You can get it at Home Depot. You can get the barb fittings at HD too.

The one good thing about flex is it is a nice easy flow from tank to sump.

The bad thing is the only place I could find PVC gate valves was to order them on the internet. I couldn't find them locally anywhere.

 

[GMGQ]

Thanks for the suggestion, rdmpe. It was just that actual gate valves are hard to come by around here (none of the major plumbing stores carried them in 1"). So I've been using these knife gate valves. It wasnt an issue before, but now that I really have to FINE TUNE the flow, I will definitely look into them. I actually recently found a LFS that can get them in at a decent price, so I will be getting some! Results after I make the change. Thanks again.

Gary - I think you'd find that if you replace that knife style gate valve with this type it would be much easier to dial in

 

[drk70]

Here is where I got my gate valves.

www.savko.com/partlist.asp?pgid=1

 

[johns]

The bad thing is the only place I could find PVC gate valves was to order them on the internet. I couldn't find them locally anywhere.

No gate valves at HD?