NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!
- Thread starter Herbie
- Start date
My gate valve is at the very end of the drain pipe. the end section of the drain is a flex tube, the gate valve simply slip in and tied with a plastic tie. The gate valve is semi-submerged in the sump, with a short T at the outlet end of the valve sits on the bottom of the sump to support the valve in place. If I need valve serviced (which hasn't happened), I can easily pull the valve off, clean it then slip it back in. Tested it several times no problem at all. When the valve was removed, water rushed down to the sump until the level in the overflow box lowered to the top of the intake standpipe. After the valve was slipped back in the water surfaces in both the overflow box and the sump returned to their usual levels. There was some big splash when slipping the valve back into the end tube but my sump was deep enough to avoid any spill during the test. Now I am using a smaller sump, might have to turn off the return pump for service to avoid spill.
The metal screw on the top of the valve is removed. It is not necessary at all. The red knob is also removed and kept in a safe place, used only when adjustment is needed.
The metal screw on the top of the valve is removed. It is not necessary at all. The red knob is also removed and kept in a safe place, used only when adjustment is needed.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
funkyman...
the red text is pretty... but anoying. Please conform to the rest of the herd or be sent out to pasture.
Bean
the red text is pretty... but anoying. Please conform to the rest of the herd or be sent out to pasture.
Bean
ctreefer
New member
I know this thread hasn't had any activity for several weeks, but hopefully someone can chime in here. I've been following this thread for awhile and implemented it into my new tank. I wanted to show what I had done to my system so see attached sketch.
I'm pretty sure the emergency overflow will work fine here. My question(s) pertain to having the proper plumbing design as it seems crucial to have a system that doesn't need to be tweaked every day.
Does anyone think this design will work? I wanted to place the gate valve near the water in the sump which would prevent any splashing down the pipe. Also, do I need a riser tube in the overflow to raise the height of the water within there?
One final question (maybe) How much of a height difference do you have between the overflow teeth and the water level in the box? I'm afraid if I have too much of a drop I'll hear water splashing here as well.
thanks for any input.
vince
I'm pretty sure the emergency overflow will work fine here. My question(s) pertain to having the proper plumbing design as it seems crucial to have a system that doesn't need to be tweaked every day.
Does anyone think this design will work? I wanted to place the gate valve near the water in the sump which would prevent any splashing down the pipe. Also, do I need a riser tube in the overflow to raise the height of the water within there?
One final question (maybe) How much of a height difference do you have between the overflow teeth and the water level in the box? I'm afraid if I have too much of a drop I'll hear water splashing here as well.
thanks for any input.
vince
rdmpe
New member
Hi CT - nice diagram. I don't have mine running in an external overflow, but I think the concept is similar. So I'll comment on your proposed design...
1 - Can you bring both drains up through the bottom? It would give you more flexibility to adjust the emergency drain height by changing to a different height of open standpipe, and would probably have a little more capacity than the one with the elbow.
2 - at the sump end, it is best if you have the ends of the drains submerged in a chamber that has a constant water depth (baffle). That way evaporation will not cause your overflow water level to change.
3 - my gate valve is somewhat high up on my main drain. It seems that the air that you may get below the valve initially is flushed out pretty quickly. I have never noticed any splashing sound from that issue at all. However, your setup may still be better. I was thinking of changing mine to that config but since it hasn't been an issue, I've left it alone.
4 - Water level - I keep my overflow water level very high in order to make that part quieter. My water only drops about a half to 3/4 inch. I have it set so that it basically is right at the top of my emergency drain pipe, and once in a while a little bit of water slips over into the emergency drain, but not enough to make any noise.
5 - you don't need a riser tube off your main drain to raise the water level. The water level is raised and lowered by the gate valve setting. A riser tube in your overflow box would probably lead to a vortex forming and sucking air down the pipe because the overflow box is not very deep.
6 - you will need a screen over your main drain. I made a screen from some of this grid tubing: http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/8559/cid/2079
This stuff works great. I used black plastic gutter guard to make a top for the short tube shaped screen. Then I cut some small rectangles and made a "cross" that fits up inside of it and attached it with zip ties inside the screen at the top, just under the gutterguard top. The cross prevents a vortex from forming if the water level is clsoe to the top of the standpipe. I used a standpipe in my overflow because my overflow is large and 24" deep. The standpipe reduces the amount of water that drains back into my sump in a power outage. The overflow only drains down to the top of the standpipe.
7 - It seems that with a relatively small overflow box, you may get some small bubbles generated from the overflow action that get sucked down the drain. The screen will help with that. Depends on how much flow you are going to be pulling over it I guess. A few bubbles going down the pipe won't generate any noise or problems though IME.
I hardly ever have to mess with mine. Sometimes I'll notice the water has changed a little bit and I'll just reach under there and give the gate valve a tiny tweak and think no more of it. It's no hassle at all. I think your idea looks like it should work fine. However, I would rather have both drains come up through the bottom if possible.
Last thing, after you set it all up, try the scary test. Slowly close that gate valve and see if your emergency drain can handle the flow. It drives me crazy to do it but I know mine will work if I need it to... You may also find that when you do that, your sump pump may start sucking air depending on your setup, because during that emergency drain operation, you do end up with more water in your display since it has to rise up above the emergency drain.
Good luck with it!
1 - Can you bring both drains up through the bottom? It would give you more flexibility to adjust the emergency drain height by changing to a different height of open standpipe, and would probably have a little more capacity than the one with the elbow.
2 - at the sump end, it is best if you have the ends of the drains submerged in a chamber that has a constant water depth (baffle). That way evaporation will not cause your overflow water level to change.
3 - my gate valve is somewhat high up on my main drain. It seems that the air that you may get below the valve initially is flushed out pretty quickly. I have never noticed any splashing sound from that issue at all. However, your setup may still be better. I was thinking of changing mine to that config but since it hasn't been an issue, I've left it alone.
4 - Water level - I keep my overflow water level very high in order to make that part quieter. My water only drops about a half to 3/4 inch. I have it set so that it basically is right at the top of my emergency drain pipe, and once in a while a little bit of water slips over into the emergency drain, but not enough to make any noise.
5 - you don't need a riser tube off your main drain to raise the water level. The water level is raised and lowered by the gate valve setting. A riser tube in your overflow box would probably lead to a vortex forming and sucking air down the pipe because the overflow box is not very deep.
6 - you will need a screen over your main drain. I made a screen from some of this grid tubing: http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/8559/cid/2079
This stuff works great. I used black plastic gutter guard to make a top for the short tube shaped screen. Then I cut some small rectangles and made a "cross" that fits up inside of it and attached it with zip ties inside the screen at the top, just under the gutterguard top. The cross prevents a vortex from forming if the water level is clsoe to the top of the standpipe. I used a standpipe in my overflow because my overflow is large and 24" deep. The standpipe reduces the amount of water that drains back into my sump in a power outage. The overflow only drains down to the top of the standpipe.
7 - It seems that with a relatively small overflow box, you may get some small bubbles generated from the overflow action that get sucked down the drain. The screen will help with that. Depends on how much flow you are going to be pulling over it I guess. A few bubbles going down the pipe won't generate any noise or problems though IME.
I hardly ever have to mess with mine. Sometimes I'll notice the water has changed a little bit and I'll just reach under there and give the gate valve a tiny tweak and think no more of it. It's no hassle at all. I think your idea looks like it should work fine. However, I would rather have both drains come up through the bottom if possible.
Last thing, after you set it all up, try the scary test. Slowly close that gate valve and see if your emergency drain can handle the flow. It drives me crazy to do it but I know mine will work if I need it to... You may also find that when you do that, your sump pump may start sucking air depending on your setup, because during that emergency drain operation, you do end up with more water in your display since it has to rise up above the emergency drain.
Good luck with it!
ctreefer
New member
Thanks rdmpe,
I'll get to work on the screen. Good idea. I already drilled the hole in the side of my overflow for the emergency overflow, so for now I'll leave it be. I don't foresee any problems though, because this system is fairly small (29 gal w/ 10 sump) and my return pump is only a mag 3 while my emergency overflow is 1" ID. The test will tell.
Can't wait to have a silent tank.
thanks
vince
I'll get to work on the screen. Good idea. I already drilled the hole in the side of my overflow for the emergency overflow, so for now I'll leave it be. I don't foresee any problems though, because this system is fairly small (29 gal w/ 10 sump) and my return pump is only a mag 3 while my emergency overflow is 1" ID. The test will tell.
Can't wait to have a silent tank.
thanks
vince
mc-cro
(macro)
well I finally got my tank set back up, and I used this system, again, to eliminate bubbles in the basement sump. And again I began having the same issues with not being able to keep the water level in the overflow constant. ( I now think maybe the overflow compartment is just too small for that much volume to move that quick and not see major flux)
So this time I did something alittle different, instead of using the 2nd hole as an "emergency" drain, I put a dorso on it and that actually controls the level in the overflow instead of the gatevalve under the main drain.
The main drain is still completely submerged on the bottom, (its just a bulkhead strainer-no standpipe) and restricted just a tad bit too much, enough to make the water rise very slowly to the dorso. the dorso kicks in and only a small trickle goes down this pipe.
This keeps the overflow level constant, keeps the bubbles out of the sump, and its all completely silent.
I have tested the drains, if you shut down the main drain, the dorso continues to take on the excess water volume. If at some point, if there was a complete restriction the water would eventually overtake the durso. A simple fix was to take airline tubing and run from the vent hole in the dorso down to just above the water level. If the water reaches that high, it creates a vacuum, which then kicks the dorso into a full siphon, and sucks the water level back down again. No overflows.
So this time I did something alittle different, instead of using the 2nd hole as an "emergency" drain, I put a dorso on it and that actually controls the level in the overflow instead of the gatevalve under the main drain.
The main drain is still completely submerged on the bottom, (its just a bulkhead strainer-no standpipe) and restricted just a tad bit too much, enough to make the water rise very slowly to the dorso. the dorso kicks in and only a small trickle goes down this pipe.
This keeps the overflow level constant, keeps the bubbles out of the sump, and its all completely silent.
I have tested the drains, if you shut down the main drain, the dorso continues to take on the excess water volume. If at some point, if there was a complete restriction the water would eventually overtake the durso. A simple fix was to take airline tubing and run from the vent hole in the dorso down to just above the water level. If the water reaches that high, it creates a vacuum, which then kicks the dorso into a full siphon, and sucks the water level back down again. No overflows.
aqua_obs
New member
mc-cro,
yep, very cool. A tank at the LFS has a deal like this. My tank is approaching it. Doesn't it oscillate back and forth trying to find equilibrium?
I think the hardest part of this is getting the PVC leaks fixed. Boy am I lame at plumbing.... The good news is I did put some water in the hole last night and leaks are pretty minimal!... drip...... drip..... drip...... sure as freak exciting.
yep, very cool. A tank at the LFS has a deal like this. My tank is approaching it. Doesn't it oscillate back and forth trying to find equilibrium?
I think the hardest part of this is getting the PVC leaks fixed. Boy am I lame at plumbing.... The good news is I did put some water in the hole last night and leaks are pretty minimal!... drip...... drip..... drip...... sure as freak exciting.
My silent drain WITHOUT a backup drain is still working as expected. I clean my screen when I do water change, that is it. Haven't even tweaked my gate valve lately.
The problem with unstable water level may have to do with the large drop from the tank to the basement.
The problem with unstable water level may have to do with the large drop from the tank to the basement.
00nothing
New member
I read through a great deal of this thread a long time ago and jsut wanted to say it is an awesome method i have seen it setup on a few tanks and have applied the same prinicple to a slightly modded hob overflow with great success all i did was add a second bulkhead to the side of the overflow for the emerg drain
whenever i tell someone about this method they always say oh jsut use a stockman or a durso to that i say never again
whenever i tell someone about this method they always say oh jsut use a stockman or a durso to that i say never again
jeffbrig
Premium Member
I'm using the exact same setup mc-cro described. The water level in the overflow is rock-solid, set by the height of the durso on the backup drain. My drains have been running in this configuration for approx. 9 months without issue. I am pushing approx. 2400gph through a submerged 1.5" drain with a taller 1.5" durso. It operates in complete silence without any microbubble problems.
I had one incident early on where a turbo snail got inside the primary drain line and lodged at the valve. Of course, this occurred in the middle of the night. The water level rose and the durso picked up the slack, the tank did not overflow. I have since installed gutter guard to keep snails out of the overflow and drains.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
And my skydiving without a backup chute has not killed me yet
rdmpe
New member
Jim, I'm not sure if you have a screen or not. My screen is just a tube of that stuff I linked to above. It slides down over the 2" pvc standpipe. I leave enough screen above the main drain that it extends above the water line. there is also a screen top on it, secured with zip ties. So picture this perforated tube with one end open that slides down onto the standpipe.
Between the top of the standpipe and the top of the perforated tube is where the "cross" is. To make the cross, I cut two rectangles of black grid material. I cut it from a piece of that pipe that I linked to above. Craft stores sell black pvc grid for some needlepoint type thing that would also work well for this since it is flat and is really cheap. The two rectangles are just the right size to fit the ID of the screen tube. I cut a slit half way up each rectangle, then slide them together to form the cross. I slid the cross up into the tube and secured it with zip ties. Then I slid the bottom end of the tube over the standpipe. So now I don't get a vortex unless the water is very low. I'll try to remember to post some pictures, but it will not be until Wed. evening since I have plans tonight... Basically, looking from above, you see a circle with a cross or X in it.
Hope this helps!
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6461116#post6461116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
And my skydiving without a backup chute has not killed me yet
You just can't wait for my tank to overflow can you? Did I tell you my tank will NEVER overflow?
If you are jumping off a ten story building during a skydive practice, onto a huge air cushion below, do you still must have a backup chute?
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