New to the hobby. Looking for some help

L

lhscouchmonster

New member
Hello everyone. I just started a saltwater tank after keeping planted tanks for many years. I just put my live rock in to seed my dead rock on Friday.

I have been reading up online for the last few months. I have read thousands of opinions and articles. Im have trouble discerning when someone is on a soapbox saying what they think should be done vs what most people actually do around here. Hopefully some local reef keeps can help me out with honest and real feedback.

1. Is our local water good enough to use in the tank after chlorine/heavy metal treatment? Everyone says to get an RO/DI but I don't know if it is absolutely necessary for keeping fish (and eventually a few easier corals). I will end up getting one but figured I would wait so my wife has something to get me for xmas.

2. Is the reef crystal salt mix enough to keep a few corals eventually or do I need to be supplementing or getting a reactor?

3. What type of QT and treatments do you guys give your fish and corals when you get them from caribbean forest or the reef shoppe? Do they QT and pretreat the fish first? I plan on just getting a pair of Ocellaris clowns after my cycle is done and everything is steady for a little while. People online say to QT the fish for 8 weeks, treat with several meds regardless of what you see, etc etc but i would think that would stress the fish out and it would really take a long time to actually get anything into the tank that way.

4. Is there any QT needed for my CuC when I start to phase them in? Figuring a mix of snails and hermits.

5. Do you guys QT or treat your coral frags? If so, to what extent?


Tank info:
75 gallon reef ready and stand from caribbean forest. 29 gallon sump with baffles and a mag 7 return. nwb-110 skimmer. 216W T5 HO bulbs. Glass canopy to keep the cat (and its dander) out of the tank. 80 lbs south seas baserock dead rock and 20 lbs live rock. API saltwater master test kit. About a 1 inch layer of oolite. refractometer and calibration fluid. 300W heater. instant ocean salt mix.
 
Welcome to reefcentral and URS! This is a great site for all kind of reef and non-reef advice.

I highly recommend getting a RODI. I don't know anyone that has been successful without one. I battled very bad hair algae until I started using one. I'd recommend buying RODI water from a local shop until you can pick up your own unit. You can also find some nice deals on used units pretty regularly. Priority wise, I would buy a RODI before any livestock.

Reef crystals will be fine until testing reveals that your corals demand more calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium than the water change with a salt mix can replenish.

I have never QT'd, so I can't recommend anything there.
 
Welcome to RC and URS!!! This is a fantastic group of people. You might be just in time for the swap in Buffalo.

Sounds like you're off to a good start!!

1) The local water is pretty good as far as total dissolved solids and I don't think they use chloramines, but I, and most others, use an RO/DI anyway. At the very least it provides peace of mind.

2) Reef Crystals are fine to use. I think a lot of folks have very successful tanks with that or Instant Ocean. It's more than adequate for your needs now and well into the future. Worry about supplementation when you start adding a lot of SPS.

3) I've QT'd all the fish I've purchased except the first (YWG), but he probably should have been as well. I do eight weeks. The only one I treated prophylactially was my coral beauty angel with prazi-pro. QT isn't stressful for them. It provides a quiet place for them to get used to your system and you can make sure they're eating. My coral beauty was not eating whan I first got him and the QT allowed me to try everything without him having to compete with anyone else. When he went into the DT I knew he was healthy and would eat anything. Yes, it will take longer, but as I'm sure you've read on Reef Central - nothing good comes quickly and patience is key in this hobby!

4) I didn't QT my CUC

5) I don't QT my coral, but it's not a bad idea. I do dip them in Revive or CoralRx though.

HTH and I'm sure others will chime in as well.

And yeah, I don't know why I'm not outside either.
 
1- I wouldn't trust the local water AT ALL, get an RO unit.

2- Reef crystals are fine, so is instant ocean. You don't really get into needing reactors till you have a lot of stony corals.

3- If the clowns are going to be your ONLY fish, there's not an extremely compelling reason to QT them. If you're planning on multiple fish, absoloutely setup a QT system. I've lost most of a tank to Ich when I was lazy and didn't QT... it's not fun.

4- I generaly do not QT my inverts

5- I only QT corals for short periods, though I do dip them to kill bad stuff. Having lots of wrasses makes me less-prone to most worms/nudi's, and not keeping acros keeps me away from the redbug issues. I more QT for aiptasia, mojano and other pests than I do for the smaller things.
 
wow thanks for all of the replies!

I will just get an RO/DI soon then. It looks like everyone has been using them.

I will set up the QT after the clowns. I want to start adding a few more fish after vacation late this summer. I will get it ready for then. If I do get sick fish after the clowns, I guess I would need a hospital tank.

I will look into the coral dips when I decide to pick one up.

Thanks for the help everyone!
 
Welcome,

I quarantine all fish no exceptions.Clowns get ich and other diseases too and can bring them into your tank. Once it's there; it's there for years.Fish from any lfs or on line vendor have been exposed to other fish and tanks during the chain of custody. I'm not confident of any qt or pretreatment for fish going into my system other than one I perform . A simple qt set up should be acquired before fish ,imo.

This thread may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929&highlight=acclimation+and+quarantine

An ro/di unit is very helpful.

Salt should handle alkalinity and calcium needs with a reasonable amount of water changes until coral and/or coraline algae growth starts depleting it.
 
This topic comes up about once a year. If I recall, the shop with the best looking tanks in upstate NY uses tapwater in his display tanks...
 
Steve Canyon said:
This topic comes up about once a year. If I recall, the shop with the best looking tanks in upstate NY uses tapwater in his display tanks...
Click to expand...

This is true.

The water authority sends out a sheet every year of what is in the water in your area. I used to have a scan of it but I cannot find it.

I have always used tap water and never had a problem. I can understand how issues can be caused because of poor makeup water but I have never experienced any issues that I know of. RODI is certainly a good route though and I would run one if my setup made it a little easier but only because I already own one and don't use it.

I have never QT'd but it can cause large issues if you've got a lot to lose.

I always say this to people getting into this hobby: Don't make it harder than it is. Cycle your tank and add a fish. Enjoy it and don't miss your monthly water changes. Tune in your protein skimmer. Get some beginner corals from other reefers. I'm in Greece, stop over. Once you get a larger coral load I would recommend large bi-weekly water changes or start exploring the other more advanced methods. It doesn't need to be advanced though. It doesn't need to be hard.
 
cardiffgiant said:
Definitely the exception, and not the rule.
Click to expand...

Perhaps an exception. The point is there are no rules regarding this subject. I've come to believe this hobby is still not a perfect science. It has a component of black magic to it. It has an even larger component of marketing.
That said, I use RO/DI at a rate of 50-100 gallons a week.
 
Yet that shop sells ro water; go figure.
Ro/di is about risk avoidance. Some tap water may be fine but if you are pumping in 200 to 300ppm in dissolved solids and don't know what they are that's an avoidable risk in my book. No magic there.

Ich( crytocaryon irritans ) is a very frequently occurring avoidable disease that is deadly: almost a certainty as livestock is added over time without quarantine, ime. Once it's in the tank it makes the hobby experience harder and less fun for the aqaurist and the fish ;certainly not easier except for a short time perhaps. Treating fish and a tank with ich in it is a long hard process with painful fish losses . I choose not to keep that relatively ubiquitous parasite in my tank by insuring there are none in the fish I add.
 
Steve Canyon said:
Perhaps an exception. The point is there are no rules regarding this subject. I've come to believe this hobby is still not a perfect science. It has a component of black magic to it. It has an even larger component of marketing.
That said, I use RO/DI at a rate of 50-100 gallons a week.
Click to expand...

I agree that there is a lot of art to what tactics each of us choose to apply, and the ways in which we apply them. In fact, once someone gets past whether or not to use RO/DI, they could spend a good chunk of time in one of our old threads talking about how many different ways to store and automate top off. I reconfigured some of my basement sump and top off storage after the thread that Gary started last year, and I still feel like there is a lot of room for improvement.

I know that there are tanks that use tap. I even remember reading a thread from someone on the main board that used tap to set up their tank and then only topped off with tap for 10 years (no water changes at all!). The ratio of tanks like that to threads from hobbyists that are frustrated with ongoing battles with hair algae are easily 1:100.

I've just seen too many people put together a set up and put the RODI on hold, only to frustrate themselves to the point of throwing in the towel when they can't keep up with nuisance algae.
 
1. RO/DI. You can get them pretty cheap. airwaterice.com has cheap units (Mighty Mite $109) or check out ARC they sell them.

2. I use Instant Ocean.

3. No QT.

4. No need to do anything with the CUCs.

5. I use the revive dip on all corals going in or coming out.
 
It can hurt if not filtered correctly.
For example, when di is used with exhausted resin( tds greater than 1ppm) high concentrations of harmful elements (like ammonia and others) can be released . Di resin consists of positively and negatively charged resins that adsorb ions passing through it. When all the binding sites are full, ions passing through with a stronger charge knock off those with lesser charges which may have built up for months. So ,even very little tds post di could be very harmful and release a high concentration of a harmful sustance I have no idea about the quaility of ro/di being sold . Many report difficulties with their tap water throughout the boards ; ro/di is pretty standard for successful reeef tanks.

I think any case for tap water based on the example cited looses credibility when the person cited as a model in the example encourages and benefits from commerce in ro or ro/di water. If their tap water and large water changes are magical ,maybe they should sell that as some sort of proprietary trace element concoction rther than a product they don't use.
 
Great point Tom. I had no clue regarding the potential issues caused with exhausted resin. I for one will be a bit more proactive when I see the color change occur.
Selling and promoting? I'm not so sure on the promoting part. A reef comrade and I were talking to the gentleman in question. We were discussing the complexity in my system. As a part of that conversation he said, "I don't use it, but I'll sell it to you if you want it. It sounds like you have a LOT going on."... I left with the understanding that he does significant water changes with tapwater. Beyond that, I understood he had a skimmer on the system.
I have no clue if that is still his approach. I'd love to hear from someone with (current) first hand knowledge.
Taking this thread a little further down the highjack path...
To the subject of proprietary trace elements? There are products out there, like "Reef Cra*k" that claim to have exactly that. I think I'll throw that question out in another thread.
As alway Tom, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge.
 
Last edited:
1. RO/DI A good system pays off over the time you will be in the hobby. More common filters that you can get at your LFS. Using a color changing DI in a clear canister can be helpful in the beginning. Save all old DI. After about 4 or 5 changes you should have enough accumulated to try recharging(Very dangerous if not done safely).

2. I like Reef Crystals or Oceanic. Depending on what you wanna keep there is a lesser expensive option. Instant ocean. Does the trick but as stated earlier it is not fortified with essential stuff.

3. I dont QT fish. I carefully inspect fish at LFS make sure its fat and eating. No eat NO buy. Look for signs of any disfigurement or external parasites. Maybe you should not follow my advice on this one. Thats up to you. I don't always make good choices. I probably stand alone on my opinion of fish with ich, so i will not elaborate.

4. I just drip acclimate my CuC.

5. I dip all corals. I will not buy any corals from a place that has bad hitchhikers that are visible. Especially Aptasia or flatworms. All corals i buy i dipped, even if they are form a well trusted person i know.

Everybody has opinions and each have varying degrees of success. Its largely a trial and error hobby. Great questions with great answers. Best thing to do is follow your gut. Make mistakes and learn from them. It so fun to manage your own little ecosystem in a box of water. Good luck!
 
I ran copper levels sky high when I started. It was a 15g and I was very good about wc's straight from the tap of an old farm house. Run an RO/DI; there will be enough of a learning curve to deal with to play the someone somewhere says they do it game.

Use really any salt mix you want: doesn't someone here with a great tank use the free t-shirt salt? In a few months you'll want to get good Alk and Ca test kits. These are easy grocery/hardware store chemicals that are easy to calculate online and add.

It's worth it to qt most everything; I've slacked off with this and Im already paying the price by not being able to get a dream pair of fish that rarely come up That became available.
 
Welcome to the Community and Hobby! Remember Patience is Key! I work in Webster so if you're ever looking to chat and compare systems just to see what I do PM me and we can figure something out. You're doing the correct already by reading and doing alot of research. I think I can speak for many of us on the forum that we're all passionate about the hobby and will probably talk your ears off and have no limit in any discussion you'd like to start. Ellery
 
free t-shirt salt.
Not sure the y still give out t shirts in th buckets anymore , I have more than I need and now by it by the box. Never used any thing else.
 
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