new Tyree LE... tenuis??

[MammothReefer]

You've been on rc for a little over 5 years, in 2014 it'll be 8

Sorry, 03-11. yup 8 years. I was a naughty boy. This is round 2 for me.


To answer your second point. Do you know if Tyree even approved that as an LE coral of his? Some shady people out there!

 

[acroholicreefer]

You guys are much better biologist than economist. The market used to be an oligopoly, which is why people like tyree and ora got away with selling their "LE" frags at the prices that they sold them at years ago. Now the market is more of a monopolistic competition type but these corals are priced like they are still in an oligopoly market.

 

[organism]

Sorry, 03-11. yup 8 years. I was a naughty boy. This is round 2 for me.

Touché sir

To answer your second point. Do you know if Tyree even approved that as an LE coral of his? Some shady people out there!

Yup http://www.reeffarmers.com/limitedtnttenuisacropora.htm

Craziness

 

[organism]

You guys are much better biologist than economist. The market used to be an oligopoly, which is why people like tyree and ora got away with selling their "LE" frags at the prices that they sold them at years ago. Now the market is more of a monopolistic competition type but these corals are priced like they are still in an oligopoly market.

That sounds like it would make a lot of sense if I had any idea of what it meant

 

[MammothReefer]

Tyree and ORA were never the only guy selling frags. ORA actually got into it rather late and to a slow start. They used to be (and still are) primary focused on captive fish. Corals were an after thought but they really caught on. When I first started carrying ORA back in the days you were really limited to the amount of SPS you can get per order now they have a huge gambit of of corals available. Atlantis used to have great captive frags, as did Garf, Steve Garrett, Reefer Madness, there is/was another site that was like reef farmers but not just tyree it was more a collection of coral growers, and there is/was a few others, like Eric I think was his name that was out of red lands but now is @ Route 66.

What ticks me off (and this is a personal thing) about the LE thing is when other peoples corals get "LE'd" and they don't get credit. Perfect example is the original Monster Mash Chalice (which imop really set off the chalice craze). It was purchased my buddy Charles (Chin_monster), who was happy selling frags here and then.. then Hugo bought a frag shot it off to Tyree and it became an "LE". With no credit back to Charles.. that is lame imop and i'm sure this wasn't the only time it happened.

 

[MammothReefer]

Touché sir



Yup http://www.reeffarmers.com/limitedtnttenuisacropora.htm

Craziness

It was hackers! .. Ya I just saw that ha.

 

[MechEng99]

Now of days, you should never buy any corals from vendors that do not have the species available in the description. If not, it is just trying to be over hyped by some made up BS marketing name.

Are you kidding?! Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to identify all SPS accurately? Most of what we have identified with species names are just shots in the dark unless someone has done a skeleton analysis (and even then...it's not 100% accurate.) Plus, the same species grown in different conditions can look completely different.

I don't think most vendors are willing to kill off a piece of each new coral to bleach the skeleton to determine species. If they list the species incorrectly, then they get blasted (look at all the threads blasting ORA over their "Hawkins Echinata"). If you really want accurate species names, then the vendors will have to hire a professional...so those prices will just keep soaring.

Those "BS marketing names" aren't just BS - they're common names so we don't stumble all over ourselves trying to figure out what's accurate when 99% of the community doesn't have the ability.

I can tell you right now that when I'm at the local garden center that I don't ask the high school kid for a "Acer japonicum" instead of a Japanese Maple or whatever. I may look for a particular species, but I certainly don't demand proof that it's a certain species. I would look like a :mtool:

 

[organism]

Are you kidding?! Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to identify all SPS accurately? Most of what we have identified with species names are just shots in the dark unless someone has done a skeleton analysis (and even then...it's not 100% accurate.) Plus, the same species grown in different conditions can look completely different.

Those "BS marketing names" aren't just BS - they're common names so we don't stumble all over ourselves trying to figure out what's accurate when 99% of the community doesn't have the ability.

I can tell you right now that when I'm at the local garden center that I don't ask the high school kid for a "Acer japonicum" instead of a Japanese Maple or whatever.

+1 on SPS being tricky to id, not sure a species name would help when you could see it's a staghorn, bottlebrush, tabletop, etc...

As far as the garden center, did you ask him for the Dayglo Aurora Maple, or LE SkittleBrau Maple? Those would be just bs marketing names for Acer japonicum, whereas Japanese Maple is a common name that everyone understands. I agree there's some marketing names that have become common names, but there's a threshold where you cross into bs marketing territory that's pretty easy to spot

 

[MammothReefer]

Would you call a green slimer anything but a green slimer?!

 

[MammothReefer]

one thing I just noticed on the reef farmer page. That coral been captive for a year a lot of you were saying it's just was fresh cut wild piece.. It's not like they got it last week.

 

[acroholicreefer]

Are you kidding?!

Man dude. Chill out a bit. Nobody is trying to spill anybody's milk. All that I am saying is that most of the corals that are imported have a list of species along with them. If you see violet blueberry acro as the name, that is just a red flag for me.

Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to identify all SPS accurately?

Yes, it is not easy and not every ID is going to be accurate.

Most of what we have identified with species names are just shots in the dark unless someone has done a skeleton analysis (and even then...it's not 100% accurate.)

Not with the resources that we have today. With our knowledge and online places to communicate like here on RC, it becomes much easier than it used to be. The same species are imported over and over. After a while, you see similar makings that help with the ID. You don't need to do a skeleton analysis.

 

[MechEng99]

As far as the garden center, did you ask him for the Dayglo Aurora Maple, or LE SkittleBrau Maple? [\QUOTE]

Oh, of course I agree there - there are definitely plenty of BS marketing names out there...but it's hard to define when it's a marketing ploy or an easy common name.

Orchids are like this too...they have names like "Paprika Black Magic" (???...weird, but whatever), the "Smile Again Hawaii", and the "Sorcerer's Apprentice"...etc. Those aren't "BS marketing names". They're simply a way to tell X hybrid from Y hybrid.

 

[MechEng99]

Not with the resources that we have today. With our knowledge and online places to communicate like here on RC, it becomes much easier than it used to be. The same species are imported over and over. After a while, you see similar makings that help with the ID. You don't need to do a skeleton analysis.

Totally going to disagree with you 100%. Have you ever read the species identification page? It's a joke...a complete WAG. Most of the time (unless the coral is very well known), the absolute BEST people we have on RC in species ID will do the following:

1. Give a list of 3-5 possible species
2. Say, "let it grow out...it's too small to tell"
3. Hotly debate over 2 species with no end result.

If ORA can't correctly ID the Hawkins Echinata, then what do you expect from Joe Blow in his garage? How do you expect every store to take a photo of every frag...post it online...wait for an answer (which may or may not be right)...then tag it for sale? That's ridiculous. Stores are out to make money.

And do you really think a store wants a threat of a lawsuit or a bad review online because Joe Blow got what he thought was a particular species when in fact it was a different species? ORA has gotten a bad rep in some communities over this.

And no, the same species aren't always imported. New places open up export...we get new corals. Read through Veron's Corals of the World. When you see how many bajillion different species that are insanely alike, it's just not feasible.

I'm with you in that I would like to see it happen...but right now it's not going to.

 

[dvanacker]

Plus the same species looks different in different environments. I also truly believe that many species exist that are not identified. Species that are very similar to one another so they both get categorized in the same.

Anyway species identification is not an exact science by scientists so you can only imagine what it would be like for hobbyists and store owners if we had to correctly ID every coral. Impossible.

 

[nvdiz]

I'm actually a fan of some tyree corals, but this LE crap is getting out of hand.

I just read a thread on another forum that a monti became LE just because Tyree deemed it worthy.

A new $125 1/2" frag is born.

 

[dvanacker]

Who cares.....don't buy it if you don't want it. I wouldn't buy it.

Only buy something if YOU feel it's worth it. But all this complaining about price.

Really I thought this thread was about the quality associated with an LE coral but it seems every time LE is mentioned price comes up even when its not the topic.

 

[Reediculous]

I don't want to derail this thread at all ... im new here, and my name just happens to be Tyree ... i saw my name in the thread title and thought! Omg! im getting banned already ....

ok back to the thread ... sorry guys

 

[Allmost]

it is funny .... I see stuff at local shops, which are supposed to be RARE and LE as said by other shops ... lol

maybe Im just not that detailed ...

I am still more than happy with my green, blue, orange and yellow and .. SPS ...

 

[acroholicreefer]

Totally going to disagree with you 100%. Have you ever read the species identification page? It's a joke...a complete WAG. Most of the time (unless the coral is very well known), the absolute BEST people we have on RC in species ID will do the following:

1. Give a list of 3-5 possible species
2. Say, "let it grow out...it's too small to tell"
3. Hotly debate over 2 species with no end result.

If ORA can't correctly ID the Hawkins Echinata, then what do you expect from Joe Blow in his garage? How do you expect every store to take a photo of every frag...post it online...wait for an answer (which may or may not be right)...then tag it for sale? That's ridiculous. Stores are out to make money.

And do you really think a store wants a threat of a lawsuit or a bad review online because Joe Blow got what he thought was a particular species when in fact it was a different species? ORA has gotten a bad rep in some communities over this.

And no, the same species aren't always imported. New places open up export...we get new corals. Read through Veron's Corals of the World. When you see how many bajillion different species that are insanely alike, it's just not feasible.

I'm with you in that I would like to see it happen...but right now it's not going to.

It is okay to disagree with others and it goes to show what all I know......

I am a bit confused. Just about every store should have a list of species to go along with their acros. If they don't, they are paying too much for their acros. So, should they just throw that list out of the window? It is amazing that the divers get it right.

 

[dvanacker]

The divers and the suppliers don't get it right all the time. It has gotten better over the years...but they are wrong sometimes too.